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	<title>Comments on: Bristlecone Pines Again</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2005/03/24/bristlecone-pines-again/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2005/03/24/bristlecone-pines-again/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 23:32:21 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>By: An Open Letter to Dr. Michael Mann &#124; The Paradise Post</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2005/03/24/bristlecone-pines-again/#comment-250449</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[An Open Letter to Dr. Michael Mann &#124; The Paradise Post]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Dec 2010 16:44:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=148#comment-250449</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] them not to hide adverse results in a folder marked “BACKTO_1400-CENSORED“. Tell them not to make stupid mathematical mistakes and then refuse to show their work. Tell [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] them not to hide adverse results in a folder marked “BACKTO_1400-CENSORED“. Tell them not to make stupid mathematical mistakes and then refuse to show their work. Tell [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: An Open Letter to Dr. Michael Mann &#124; Watts Up With That?</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2005/03/24/bristlecone-pines-again/#comment-242956</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[An Open Letter to Dr. Michael Mann &#124; Watts Up With That?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Oct 2010 08:59:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=148#comment-242956</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] them not to hide adverse results in a folder marked &#8220;BACKTO_1400-CENSORED&#8220;. Tell them not to make stupid mathematical mistakes and then refuse to show their work. Tell [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] them not to hide adverse results in a folder marked &#8220;BACKTO_1400-CENSORED&#8220;. Tell them not to make stupid mathematical mistakes and then refuse to show their work. Tell [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Coochey</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2005/03/24/bristlecone-pines-again/#comment-212619</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Coochey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 22:08:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=148#comment-212619</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I recently watched a Finnish documentary the link to the transcript did not seem to work.  At one point it stated that bristlecone pines were no longer used as a proxy, is that true?

&lt;strong&gt;Steve&lt;/strong&gt;: Absolutely not.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recently watched a Finnish documentary the link to the transcript did not seem to work.  At one point it stated that bristlecone pines were no longer used as a proxy, is that true?</p>
<p><strong>Steve</strong>: Absolutely not.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dave Dardinger</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2005/03/24/bristlecone-pines-again/#comment-32803</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Dardinger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 12:58:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=148#comment-32803</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[re: #32  Loki,

&lt;blockquote&gt;I was working from the basis that H2O and CO2 have slight charge differentials between the atom in the middle and those on the ends, thus creating moving charges ...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Correct.  I just thought from your wording that there was something explicitly talking about how gases emitted on the page.

&lt;blockquote&gt;When you say that O2 and N2 can radiate during collisions, what do you mean? I imagine you are not referring to momentum transfers between the molecules duing a collision.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

If you have two molecules interacting there will be a short period of time when you have essentially four atoms (usually) forming one larger molecule.  Assuming the interaction time is long enough for some vibrating or bending or whatever to occur energy may be emitted.  I wish I had the skill to calculate the odds of such a emission but I keep throwing this out and hoping that someone with advanced training in Quantum Mechanics will come along and make it clear.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: #32  Loki,</p>
<blockquote><p>I was working from the basis that H2O and CO2 have slight charge differentials between the atom in the middle and those on the ends, thus creating moving charges &#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>Correct.  I just thought from your wording that there was something explicitly talking about how gases emitted on the page.</p>
<blockquote><p>When you say that O2 and N2 can radiate during collisions, what do you mean? I imagine you are not referring to momentum transfers between the molecules duing a collision.</p></blockquote>
<p>If you have two molecules interacting there will be a short period of time when you have essentially four atoms (usually) forming one larger molecule.  Assuming the interaction time is long enough for some vibrating or bending or whatever to occur energy may be emitted.  I wish I had the skill to calculate the odds of such a emission but I keep throwing this out and hoping that someone with advanced training in Quantum Mechanics will come along and make it clear.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Loki on the run</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2005/03/24/bristlecone-pines-again/#comment-32802</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Loki on the run]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 03:14:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=148#comment-32802</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;
I didn&#039;t see in your link any reference to gases and black body radiation per se. I believe I&#039;ve explained before that though gases like O2 and N2 can&#039;t radiate by themselves, they can radiate during collisions. And because collisions will be both more common and more energetic the warmer a gas is, they&#039;ll radiate more often and at shorter wavelengths. But there&#039;s no doubt that GHGs will radiate more.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I was working from the basis that H2O and CO2 have slight charge differentials between the atom in the middle and those on the ends, thus creating moving charges ...

When you say that O2 and N2 can radiate during collisions, what do you mean? I imagine you are not referring to momentum transfers between the molecules duing a collision.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
I didn&#8217;t see in your link any reference to gases and black body radiation per se. I believe I&#8217;ve explained before that though gases like O2 and N2 can&#8217;t radiate by themselves, they can radiate during collisions. And because collisions will be both more common and more energetic the warmer a gas is, they&#8217;ll radiate more often and at shorter wavelengths. But there&#8217;s no doubt that GHGs will radiate more.
</p></blockquote>
<p>I was working from the basis that H2O and CO2 have slight charge differentials between the atom in the middle and those on the ends, thus creating moving charges &#8230;</p>
<p>When you say that O2 and N2 can radiate during collisions, what do you mean? I imagine you are not referring to momentum transfers between the molecules duing a collision.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dave Dardinger</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2005/03/24/bristlecone-pines-again/#comment-32801</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Dardinger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 02:58:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=148#comment-32801</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[re: #30 Loki,

I didn&#039;t see in your link any reference to gases and black body radiation per se.  I believe I&#039;ve explained before that though gases like O2 and N2 can&#039;t radiate by themselves, they can radiate during collisions.  And because collisions will be both more common and more energetic the warmer a gas is, they&#039;ll radiate more often and at shorter wavelengths.  But there&#039;s no doubt that GHGs will radiate more.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: #30 Loki,</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t see in your link any reference to gases and black body radiation per se.  I believe I&#8217;ve explained before that though gases like O2 and N2 can&#8217;t radiate by themselves, they can radiate during collisions.  And because collisions will be both more common and more energetic the warmer a gas is, they&#8217;ll radiate more often and at shorter wavelengths.  But there&#8217;s no doubt that GHGs will radiate more.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Loki on the run</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2005/03/24/bristlecone-pines-again/#comment-32800</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Loki on the run]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Dec 2006 23:46:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=148#comment-32800</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dave, I can&#039;t get back to the Monckton articles, but I found this great article on black body radiation and explanation for why CO2 (despite not having an overall dipole) and H2O radiate while O2 and N2 don&#039;t (unless they get so hot they become a plasma, I imagine) and so forth:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://galileo.phys.virginia.edu/classes/252/black_body_radiation.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Black Body Radiation&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, I can&#8217;t get back to the Monckton articles, but I found this great article on black body radiation and explanation for why CO2 (despite not having an overall dipole) and H2O radiate while O2 and N2 don&#8217;t (unless they get so hot they become a plasma, I imagine) and so forth:</p>
<p><a href="http://galileo.phys.virginia.edu/classes/252/black_body_radiation.html" rel="nofollow">Black Body Radiation</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dave Dardinger</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2005/03/24/bristlecone-pines-again/#comment-32799</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Dardinger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Dec 2006 22:19:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=148#comment-32799</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, we always like to have fresh mea... er fresh views!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, we always like to have fresh mea&#8230; er fresh views!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brooks Hurd</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2005/03/24/bristlecone-pines-again/#comment-32798</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brooks Hurd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Dec 2006 22:08:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=148#comment-32798</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Chris,

I would also encourage you to have Steve M open up a thread to show what you have done. Unlike one unrelated climate related blog, the people here welcome opposing views.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris,</p>
<p>I would also encourage you to have Steve M open up a thread to show what you have done. Unlike one unrelated climate related blog, the people here welcome opposing views.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Chris O'Neill</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2005/03/24/bristlecone-pines-again/#comment-32797</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris O'Neill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Dec 2006 17:25:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=148#comment-32797</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Spence_UK wrote:

&quot;Obviously the samples contain common noise components, how have you checked to ensure the signal correlation (what we are looking for) is not swamped by the noise correlation?&quot;

At this stage I just want to point out that I don&#039;t have much knowledge of statistical validation of reconstructions which I appreciate is quite complex because of the very low unfiltered signal to noise ratios involved. My interest in this thread is determining if the particular factors affecting bristlecone proxies make it impossible to use them to make reconstructions as good as using other proxies (regardless of whether there are problems with using proxies in general).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spence_UK wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;Obviously the samples contain common noise components, how have you checked to ensure the signal correlation (what we are looking for) is not swamped by the noise correlation?&#8221;</p>
<p>At this stage I just want to point out that I don&#8217;t have much knowledge of statistical validation of reconstructions which I appreciate is quite complex because of the very low unfiltered signal to noise ratios involved. My interest in this thread is determining if the particular factors affecting bristlecone proxies make it impossible to use them to make reconstructions as good as using other proxies (regardless of whether there are problems with using proxies in general).</p>
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