More Mann Deletions

ORIGINAL: A little while ago I mentioned that the original SI at Nature for MBH98 had been deleted. It contained some information which is not in the Corrigendum SI, such as RE statistics for the various steps and the original (incorrect) data listing. Now Mann has either deleted the UMass SI for MBH98 and MBH99 previously located at ftp://eclogite.geo.umass.edu/pub/mann/ONLINE-PREPRINTS/MultiProxy and at ftp://eclogite.geo.umass.edu/pub/mann/ONLINE-PREPRINTS/Millennium, or he has put a block on my access (I’m blocked from the UVirginia server). Some, but not all, of this information formerly at UMass is at the WDCP archive. Mann had previously attempted to delete the UMass dataset in the aftermath of MM03, but the late John Daly protested to UMass and it was restored.

UPDATE: To add a little context to the deletion comment for recent followers of this debate, the original Mann deletion, which got a little publicity in 2003, was the deletion of a dataset showing MBH98 data from Mann’s website, the URL to which had been provided in response to my original request for MBH98. MM03 discussed many problems in this dataset. Mann’s response to MM03 was that this was the "wrong" dataset and was not the dataset used in MBH98, even though it was on his website, was the one to which I had been directed and on which I had sought specific re-confirmation prior to publication of MM03 that it was the dataset actually used in MBH98. Although Mann has sought to argue that we used the "wrong" dataset and failed to notice the errors in it (as recently as Rutherford et al [2005]) , we had obviously noticed errors and re-collated over 300 tree ring series to avoid the problems in the principal component series. See MM03 Scorecard.

As an excuse for errors in this dataset, Mann falsely said that this data collation at his FTP site had been prepared especially for me, but it had actually been posted up in August 2002, about one week after the ftp://holocene.evsc.virginia.edu website was started, and long before my original request. The deletion removed this evidence, but I’d looked up the date (which I had not originally paid attention to) about 1 day before the deletion. (He also falsely said that I’d asked for an Excel spreadsheet, which was manifestly untrue, since I’d asked for an FTP location.) Nothing ultimately turns on this bizarre turn of events, but it was a huge surprise to me at the time and an interesting introduction into the world of academic politics. In business, you would never be able to delete a dataset in controversy (particularly when the date is an issue), but climate scientists didn’t seem to care. They mostly thought that Mann had taught me a lesson.

That’s why "Mann deletions" is something that concerns me.

UPDATE: 7 pm EDT April 8. I can access the UMass FTP site now. I’m still blocked from the UVA site and the original Nature SI is still deleted.

UPDATE: April 10 10 am EDT. There are some advantages to the amount of traffic on this website. After putting up the post below on Friday, my access to the UVA website has suddenly changed and today (Sunday) I can access the ftp://holocene.evsc.virginia.edu/pub site for the first time in over a year.

UPDATE: My access to ftp://holocene.evsc.virginia.edu/pub is blocked again.


14 Comments

  1. John A
    Posted Apr 8, 2005 at 2:31 PM | Permalink | Reply

    Are these the actions of someone convinced of the scientific probity of his work?

  2. Jeff Naujok
    Posted Apr 8, 2005 at 3:43 PM | Permalink | Reply

    It looks like Mann just blocked your access, since I can still see the data. I’d be tempted to get a mirror set up to it in case he does try to delete it.

  3. Jeff Naujok
    Posted Apr 8, 2005 at 3:44 PM | Permalink | Reply

    It looks like he just blocked your access. I can still see the data. Sounds like a typical Mann thing to do…

  4. Greg F
    Posted Apr 8, 2005 at 4:05 PM | Permalink | Reply

    Steve,

    I am not sure from your post if you can’t access the folders or if you can see the folders but some of the documents are missing. FYI, both those folders exist and I archived them just in case.

  5. John G. Bell
    Posted Apr 8, 2005 at 10:41 PM | Permalink | Reply

    Was it in holocene.evsc.virginia.edu/pub/ ? Which UVA site?

  6. Steve McIntyre
    Posted Apr 9, 2005 at 1:38 PM | Permalink | Reply

    Yes, it’s holocene.evsc.virginia.edu. My computer is on a cable network and a neighbor down the street is blocked too. I’ve got it all copied and I can access it from the University of Toronto so it’s just a nuisance, but it shows a certain mentality. I’m really surprised that Nature deleted the original SI (which is very inconsistent with their SI policies). Steve

  7. John G. Bell
    Posted Apr 9, 2005 at 9:55 PM | Permalink | Reply

    Try ftp 128.143.42.176 Perhaps it is a dns lookup problem.
    I can pull it up with my browser by name or address. It would be
    ftp://holocene.evsc.virginia.edu/pub/ or if that doesn’t work
    ftp://128.143.42.176/pub/ Some talk of dns cashe poisoning going on. Not by Mann I’d think. ;)

  8. John A.
    Posted Apr 10, 2005 at 10:21 AM | Permalink | Reply

    Added hyperlinks to "MM03 scorecard" and the FTP site. Added formatting for clarity on additions.

  9. Posted Apr 10, 2005 at 1:50 PM | Permalink | Reply

    Shades of Bellesiles.

    John adds: I’ve added a link so that people who do not know who Bellesiles is, can understand what this comment is about.

  10. Michael Ballantine
    Posted Apr 11, 2005 at 7:09 AM | Permalink | Reply

    The US DOJ put Martha Stewart in jail for much much less. Maybe we need one of their “Feds” to ask Mann for the data, the whole data and nothing but the correct data. ;-}

  11. Posted Sep 4, 2005 at 6:18 PM | Permalink | Reply

    All right, continuing here at your request.

    It’s clear that you have jumped to the conclusion that Mann has blocked you based on insufficient evidence. You don’t even know whether your neighbours share the same IP number and you don’t seem to have checked John Bell’s suggestion of a DNS problem.

  12. Steve McIntyre
    Posted Sep 4, 2005 at 8:49 PM | Permalink | Reply

    Well, I’ve tried many times from 2 different computers from here and both are blocked. I copied the directories that are pertinent before my access was obstructed.

    Why would you think that I hadn;t tried the DNS suggestion? Of course I’ve tried that – it didn’t work before and it didn’t work just now. I can access it fine from the university. I don’t know that my neighbor shares IP address, but I do not know that he can’t access the FTP site either.

    I’ll take your point that gremlins can arise in a variety of ways and that coincidences can occur. Do you have any alternate theories on why I can’t get access to this FTP site?

  13. Posted Sep 5, 2005 at 9:20 AM | Permalink | Reply

    Servers get attacked by worms and spammers and whatnot all the time and have to block various IP addresses. Your claim that it was personal is unwarranted.

  14. TCO
    Posted Sep 5, 2005 at 9:23 AM | Permalink | Reply

    Oh give it a rest, mate.

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