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	<title>Comments on: Science Editorial #2</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2005/09/03/science-editorial-2/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2005/09/03/science-editorial-2/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
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		<title>By: Kennedy, Editor of Science, on PBS &#171; Climate Audit</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2005/09/03/science-editorial-2/#comment-247541</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kennedy, Editor of Science, on PBS &#171; Climate Audit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Dec 2010 18:07:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=338#comment-247541</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] discussed Science in particular in a number of posts, including the following Science Editorial, Science Editorial #2, Letter re Esper, Kilimanjaro Data and others. To date, Science&#8217;s performance in ensuring [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] discussed Science in particular in a number of posts, including the following Science Editorial, Science Editorial #2, Letter re Esper, Kilimanjaro Data and others. To date, Science&#8217;s performance in ensuring [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Greg F</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2005/09/03/science-editorial-2/#comment-36686</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg F]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Sep 2005 00:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=338#comment-36686</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Yet again Hearnden wheels out the propaganda. The site &quot;exxonsecrets.org&quot; is a classic example of the game &quot;Six Degrees&quot; in which everything is related to everything else by six degrees.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The same could be done for RealClimate which was set up by Environmental Media Services. They are in turn connected to a long list of &lt;a&gt;environmental groups&lt;/a&gt; whose lifeblood (read donations) rely on scary scenarios.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Yet again Hearnden wheels out the propaganda. The site &#8220;exxonsecrets.org&#8221; is a classic example of the game &#8220;Six Degrees&#8221; in which everything is related to everything else by six degrees.</p></blockquote>
<p>The same could be done for RealClimate which was set up by Environmental Media Services. They are in turn connected to a long list of <a>environmental groups</a> whose lifeblood (read donations) rely on scary scenarios.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2005/09/03/science-editorial-2/#comment-36685</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2005 21:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=338#comment-36685</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Enron was a big supporter of AGW. That doesn&#039;t disprove AGW.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Enron was a big supporter of AGW. That doesn&#8217;t disprove AGW.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2005/09/03/science-editorial-2/#comment-36684</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2005 21:15:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=338#comment-36684</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s one thing if Peter Hearndon is retailing Environmenal Defense Fund piffle about exxonsecrets.org, but it is singularly demeaing to Mann that he should have sent Environmental Defense Fund piffle to journals to try to block publication of our material, together with slanderous allegations of &quot;dishonesty&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s one thing if Peter Hearndon is retailing Environmenal Defense Fund piffle about exxonsecrets.org, but it is singularly demeaing to Mann that he should have sent Environmental Defense Fund piffle to journals to try to block publication of our material, together with slanderous allegations of &#8220;dishonesty&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: John A</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2005/09/03/science-editorial-2/#comment-36683</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John A]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2005 20:58:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=338#comment-36683</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yet again Hearnden wheels out the propaganda. The site &quot;exxonsecrets.org&quot; is a classic example of the game &quot;Six Degrees&quot; in which everything is related to everything else by six degrees.

Thus Steve McIntyre is on there because he&#039;s written papers with Ross McKitrick who is an unpaid associate of the Frasier Institute which received money from Exxon (some  trivial amount like $100,000) three years ago. Thus I am also infected with the dread Exxon disease since I setup the weblog for Steve McIntyre....and so on.

It&#039;s a trick called &quot;Poisoning the Well&quot; a pre-emptive ad hominem attack on someone because YOU CAN&#039;T FAULT THEIR CLAIMS ON A SCIENTIFIC BASIS. If you care to calculate if Exxon&#039;s money was distributed equally, you&#039;ll find that Steve has somehow been turned to &quot;climate skepticism&quot; to the tune of a few pennies. Believe that? Of course you do. It&#039;s easier than proving Steve is wrong, or even that &quot;the climate will heat up by 1,2,3,4,5,6,7, 8 or more degrees in the next century which you decline to prove either.

The top 16 environmental organization raked in last year over $2 billion. You&#039;d think with all that money they&#039;s be able to buy a single skeptic like Richard Lindzen or Patrick Michaels.

This would be difficult enough to take were it not for the fact that you are paid a large amount from the EU to not produce food and even the fossil fuels that you use to not produce them are subsidized by UK taxpayers like me through the &quot;red diesel&quot; scheme. I don&#039;t see you retiring the tractor and breaking in the oxen for the plough, so perhaps you&#039;re on the take from Big Oil yourself.

You have yet to show that AGW is detectable let alone significant. Instead you spend too much time on a computer telling everyone else your crazy beliefs without bothering with so much as a calculator.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yet again Hearnden wheels out the propaganda. The site &#8220;exxonsecrets.org&#8221; is a classic example of the game &#8220;Six Degrees&#8221; in which everything is related to everything else by six degrees.</p>
<p>Thus Steve McIntyre is on there because he&#8217;s written papers with Ross McKitrick who is an unpaid associate of the Frasier Institute which received money from Exxon (some  trivial amount like $100,000) three years ago. Thus I am also infected with the dread Exxon disease since I setup the weblog for Steve McIntyre&#8230;.and so on.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a trick called &#8220;Poisoning the Well&#8221; a pre-emptive ad hominem attack on someone because YOU CAN&#8217;T FAULT THEIR CLAIMS ON A SCIENTIFIC BASIS. If you care to calculate if Exxon&#8217;s money was distributed equally, you&#8217;ll find that Steve has somehow been turned to &#8220;climate skepticism&#8221; to the tune of a few pennies. Believe that? Of course you do. It&#8217;s easier than proving Steve is wrong, or even that &#8220;the climate will heat up by 1,2,3,4,5,6,7, 8 or more degrees in the next century which you decline to prove either.</p>
<p>The top 16 environmental organization raked in last year over $2 billion. You&#8217;d think with all that money they&#8217;s be able to buy a single skeptic like Richard Lindzen or Patrick Michaels.</p>
<p>This would be difficult enough to take were it not for the fact that you are paid a large amount from the EU to not produce food and even the fossil fuels that you use to not produce them are subsidized by UK taxpayers like me through the &#8220;red diesel&#8221; scheme. I don&#8217;t see you retiring the tractor and breaking in the oxen for the plough, so perhaps you&#8217;re on the take from Big Oil yourself.</p>
<p>You have yet to show that AGW is detectable let alone significant. Instead you spend too much time on a computer telling everyone else your crazy beliefs without bothering with so much as a calculator.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Hartley</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2005/09/03/science-editorial-2/#comment-36682</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter Hartley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2005 20:45:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=338#comment-36682</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re #19 and #20: Actually, the motives of &quot;big oil&quot; are a little more nuanced that you two seem to believe. The oil companies (like BP and Shell) with relatively more natural gas reserves are supporting the AGW hypothesis. All energy economists I know think that natural gas is the big short-term gainer from CO2 emission taxes. There also are other corporations on the pro-AGW hypothesis side, particularly the nuclear industry, which early on saw AGW as its &quot;trump card&quot; to counter environmentalist opposition -- recent examples being GE (which makes nuclear reactors) and Duke Energy (which I think is the largest generator of nuclear electricity in the US and wants to build more nuclear power plants). The nuclear industry in Japan is also a big supporter of the AGW hypothesis.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #19 and #20: Actually, the motives of &#8220;big oil&#8221; are a little more nuanced that you two seem to believe. The oil companies (like BP and Shell) with relatively more natural gas reserves are supporting the AGW hypothesis. All energy economists I know think that natural gas is the big short-term gainer from CO2 emission taxes. There also are other corporations on the pro-AGW hypothesis side, particularly the nuclear industry, which early on saw AGW as its &#8220;trump card&#8221; to counter environmentalist opposition &#8212; recent examples being GE (which makes nuclear reactors) and Duke Energy (which I think is the largest generator of nuclear electricity in the US and wants to build more nuclear power plants). The nuclear industry in Japan is also a big supporter of the AGW hypothesis.</p>
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		<title>By: Reid B</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2005/09/03/science-editorial-2/#comment-36681</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Reid B]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2005 14:39:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=338#comment-36681</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: #19 &quot;OK, do you have a better explaination for all the monies ( http://www.exxonsecrets.org/ ) being put towards selling the &quot;AGW no problem&#039; hypothesis?&quot;

I think we all agree what Big Oil motives are.  What we don&#039;t agree on is what is the motive for AGW scientists not adhering to time honored scientific principles of transparency and peer review.  It is because of the weakness of the AGW hypothesis.  But why stick to a weak hypothesis?  The climate science financing bubble will burst if AGW is discredited.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: #19 &#8220;OK, do you have a better explaination for all the monies ( <a href="http://www.exxonsecrets.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.exxonsecrets.org/</a> ) being put towards selling the &#8220;AGW no problem&#8217; hypothesis?&#8221;</p>
<p>I think we all agree what Big Oil motives are.  What we don&#8217;t agree on is what is the motive for AGW scientists not adhering to time honored scientific principles of transparency and peer review.  It is because of the weakness of the AGW hypothesis.  But why stick to a weak hypothesis?  The climate science financing bubble will burst if AGW is discredited.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Hearnden</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2005/09/03/science-editorial-2/#comment-36680</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter Hearnden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2005 14:18:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=338#comment-36680</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re #18. So oil compainies work the same? And would therefore try to stop anything threatening them maximising their income? So they would try just have their version of the truth about AGW being told? &quot;Oh no, they&#039;re different&quot; you&#039;ll cry? OK, do you have a better explaination for all the monies ( http://www.exxonsecrets.org/ ) being put towards selling the &#039;AGW no problem&#039; hypothesis?

Re #16

&lt;blockquote&gt;Mann saying that Steve&#039;s work is garbage is not an adequate response. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

But, it seems, judging by your many acerbic posts, the reverse is? LOL.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #18. So oil compainies work the same? And would therefore try to stop anything threatening them maximising their income? So they would try just have their version of the truth about AGW being told? &#8220;Oh no, they&#8217;re different&#8221; you&#8217;ll cry? OK, do you have a better explaination for all the monies ( <a href="http://www.exxonsecrets.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.exxonsecrets.org/</a> ) being put towards selling the &#8216;AGW no problem&#8217; hypothesis?</p>
<p>Re #16</p>
<blockquote><p>Mann saying that Steve&#8217;s work is garbage is not an adequate response. </p></blockquote>
<p>But, it seems, judging by your many acerbic posts, the reverse is? LOL.</p>
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		<title>By: Reid B</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2005/09/03/science-editorial-2/#comment-36679</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Reid B]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2005 13:19:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=338#comment-36679</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: #15 &quot;You have to wonder what has gone wrong in the case of climatology&quot;

There is vastly more money for the climate science field selling the AGW hyposthesis.  This is transparently obvious to me.  It&#039;s not only capitalist corporations that seek to maximize income.  Everyone seeks to maximize income and resources and climate scientists are no different.  Anyone have a better explanation?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: #15 &#8220;You have to wonder what has gone wrong in the case of climatology&#8221;</p>
<p>There is vastly more money for the climate science field selling the AGW hyposthesis.  This is transparently obvious to me.  It&#8217;s not only capitalist corporations that seek to maximize income.  Everyone seeks to maximize income and resources and climate scientists are no different.  Anyone have a better explanation?</p>
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		<title>By: fFreddy</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2005/09/03/science-editorial-2/#comment-36678</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fFreddy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2005 13:10:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=338#comment-36678</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;one journal at a time and one scientist at a time
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I guess so. It&#039;s just that that sounds like a terribly slow process. Particularly journals - from what Steve has been finding, it sounds like they are going to need some fairly senior level changes before they start doing the job properly.
John, you&#039;re in the UK, aren&#039;t you ? You know that ridiculous Carbon Trust advert that tells us we are all in the same position as Robert Oppenheimer ? If I see that damn thing any more, I swear I&#039;m going to find out what an apoplectic fit is, from the inside.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>one journal at a time and one scientist at a time
</p></blockquote>
<p>I guess so. It&#8217;s just that that sounds like a terribly slow process. Particularly journals &#8211; from what Steve has been finding, it sounds like they are going to need some fairly senior level changes before they start doing the job properly.<br />
John, you&#8217;re in the UK, aren&#8217;t you ? You know that ridiculous Carbon Trust advert that tells us we are all in the same position as Robert Oppenheimer ? If I see that damn thing any more, I swear I&#8217;m going to find out what an apoplectic fit is, from the inside.</p>
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