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	<title>Comments on: Rutherford et al [2005] Collation Errors</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/03/rutherford-et-al-2005-collation-errors/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/03/rutherford-et-al-2005-collation-errors/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
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		<title>By: Re-Visiting RegEM: Rutherford et al 2005 &#171; Climate Audit</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/03/rutherford-et-al-2005-collation-errors/#comment-254482</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Re-Visiting RegEM: Rutherford et al 2005 &#171; Climate Audit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Feb 2011 14:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=519#comment-254482</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] entirely self-contained and so I re-visited some of our previous comments on Rutherford et al here here here here . I&#8217;m going to reprise two issues today: Collation Errors, a small but amusing [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] entirely self-contained and so I re-visited some of our previous comments on Rutherford et al here here here here . I&#8217;m going to reprise two issues today: Collation Errors, a small but amusing [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Phil B.</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/03/rutherford-et-al-2005-collation-errors/#comment-43199</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Phil B.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2006 17:24:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=519#comment-43199</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For those that have been looking at Rutherford&#039;s mbhstepwisehighrecon.m, on line 158 the true value of nproxy is stepped on by nproxy = 112, which affects the weighting going into regemhigh and affects the last 112-truenproxy grid cells and associated B matrix.  A similar line of code is in  mbhstepwiselowrecon.m.  Phil]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those that have been looking at Rutherford&#8217;s mbhstepwisehighrecon.m, on line 158 the true value of nproxy is stepped on by nproxy = 112, which affects the weighting going into regemhigh and affects the last 112-truenproxy grid cells and associated B matrix.  A similar line of code is in  mbhstepwiselowrecon.m.  Phil</p>
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		<title>By: Jo Calder</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/03/rutherford-et-al-2005-collation-errors/#comment-43198</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jo Calder]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Feb 2006 21:19:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=519#comment-43198</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for that, Steve.  I didn&#039;t intend my suggestion too seriously.

Cheers, -- Jo Calder]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for that, Steve.  I didn&#8217;t intend my suggestion too seriously.</p>
<p>Cheers, &#8212; Jo Calder</p>
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		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/03/rutherford-et-al-2005-collation-errors/#comment-43197</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Feb 2006 01:36:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=519#comment-43197</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jo - Gavin&#039;s comment is total crap. There is an absolutely adequate service providing permanent data archives at the World Data Center for Paleoclimatology, which has extensive archives and to which Hockey Team members contribute from time to time. They have ongoing funding and are a &quot;permanent&quot; archive. Doing something like this is well beyond the objectives of this blog.

The target data is not as autocorrelated as some of the proxy regressors - see the warnings of Ferson et al for this type of situation.

In a sense, it would reduce the errors, but you&#039;re assuming that there is a &quot;right&quot; answer. My impression is that you have an unsavory combination of spurious regression and multilinear overfitting, creating quite a unique witches brew, the statistical properties of which are not understood by the authors.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jo &#8211; Gavin&#8217;s comment is total crap. There is an absolutely adequate service providing permanent data archives at the World Data Center for Paleoclimatology, which has extensive archives and to which Hockey Team members contribute from time to time. They have ongoing funding and are a &#8220;permanent&#8221; archive. Doing something like this is well beyond the objectives of this blog.</p>
<p>The target data is not as autocorrelated as some of the proxy regressors &#8211; see the warnings of Ferson et al for this type of situation.</p>
<p>In a sense, it would reduce the errors, but you&#8217;re assuming that there is a &#8220;right&#8221; answer. My impression is that you have an unsavory combination of spurious regression and multilinear overfitting, creating quite a unique witches brew, the statistical properties of which are not understood by the authors.</p>
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		<title>By: Jo Calder</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/03/rutherford-et-al-2005-collation-errors/#comment-43196</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jo Calder]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2006 22:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=519#comment-43196</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;But in the RegEM version, their &quot;target&quot; instrumental version for MBH is one year off. So they get essentially the same reconstruction regardless of whether they get the instrumental year right. !?!?!&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Is there some indication of the scale of the errors this induces (I guess some measure of year-to-year variation)?  OTOH if the data is highly autocorrelated, wouldn&#039;t that tend to reduce the consequent errors?

I had the thought, further to this thread and G Schmidt&#039;s comment about the unsuitability to Climate Research of any archive mechanism yet devised, that this site could offer a service to archive researchers&#039; SI code &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; have it debugged by willing volunteers. A similar pre-publication service might be more generally appreciated.

Cheers, -- Jo Calder]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>But in the RegEM version, their &#8220;target&#8221; instrumental version for MBH is one year off. So they get essentially the same reconstruction regardless of whether they get the instrumental year right. !?!?!</p></blockquote>
<p>Is there some indication of the scale of the errors this induces (I guess some measure of year-to-year variation)?  OTOH if the data is highly autocorrelated, wouldn&#8217;t that tend to reduce the consequent errors?</p>
<p>I had the thought, further to this thread and G Schmidt&#8217;s comment about the unsuitability to Climate Research of any archive mechanism yet devised, that this site could offer a service to archive researchers&#8217; SI code <i>and</i> have it debugged by willing volunteers. A similar pre-publication service might be more generally appreciated.</p>
<p>Cheers, &#8212; Jo Calder</p>
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		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/03/rutherford-et-al-2005-collation-errors/#comment-43195</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2006 15:27:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=519#comment-43195</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m guilty of using i and j as integer loop subscripts (also a Fortran hangover).

They didn&#039;t make the instrumental collation error in the script combinedstepwiselowrecon2.m, which splices in the instrumental record as follows:
&lt;blockquote&gt;composite(457:599,1:1008)=respliced(:,1:1008); &lt;/blockquote&gt;

The difference in splices is final proof of the cock-up in their MBH98 version.  I&#039;m surprised that there&#039;s not been more piling on by readers with respect to the collation error in the Rutherford et al [2005] implementation of MBH98. I think that it&#039;s going to be a big deal in a couple of ways.

First, on an elementary basis, it&#039;s a pretty humiliating error - both in itself and given all the discussion arising out of MM03 and collation errors and supposedly &quot;wrong&quot; data sets. I guess that they will suddenly announce that they posted up the &quot;wrong&quot; script and that anyone who was less stupid than me would have known enough to consult the &quot;right script&quot; which was really up all the time in some other location never previously mentioned and delete the &quot;wrong&quot; script. But it will be pretty tough to get away with this a second time.

Secondly, think about what it means for MBH98. They have proudly announced that they get essentially the same results as MBH98 using a &quot;completely different&quot; method RegEM. (I&#039;m going to do a post on whether RegEM is really a &quot;completely different&quot; method or whether the linear algebra ends up boiling down to being pretty similar in the 15th century.) But in the RegEM version, their &quot;target&quot; instrumental version for MBH is one year off. So they get essentially the same reconstruction regardless of whether they get the instrumental year right. !?!?!

This is completely consistent with our understanding of MBH methods - a classic spurious regression of the bristlecones combined with massive &quot;overfitting&quot; from essentially white noise series in the calibration period, thus the breakdown of the cross-validation R2. I&#039;ve shown a little how this works in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=370&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Huybers #2&lt;/a&gt;, which has never attracted as much comment as I&#039;d hoped, but really need to articule this in a longer form.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m guilty of using i and j as integer loop subscripts (also a Fortran hangover).</p>
<p>They didn&#8217;t make the instrumental collation error in the script combinedstepwiselowrecon2.m, which splices in the instrumental record as follows:</p>
<blockquote><p>composite(457:599,1:1008)=respliced(:,1:1008); </p></blockquote>
<p>The difference in splices is final proof of the cock-up in their MBH98 version.  I&#8217;m surprised that there&#8217;s not been more piling on by readers with respect to the collation error in the Rutherford et al [2005] implementation of MBH98. I think that it&#8217;s going to be a big deal in a couple of ways.</p>
<p>First, on an elementary basis, it&#8217;s a pretty humiliating error &#8211; both in itself and given all the discussion arising out of MM03 and collation errors and supposedly &quot;wrong&quot; data sets. I guess that they will suddenly announce that they posted up the &quot;wrong&quot; script and that anyone who was less stupid than me would have known enough to consult the &quot;right script&quot; which was really up all the time in some other location never previously mentioned and delete the &quot;wrong&quot; script. But it will be pretty tough to get away with this a second time.</p>
<p>Secondly, think about what it means for MBH98. They have proudly announced that they get essentially the same results as MBH98 using a &quot;completely different&quot; method RegEM. (I&#8217;m going to do a post on whether RegEM is really a &quot;completely different&quot; method or whether the linear algebra ends up boiling down to being pretty similar in the 15th century.) But in the RegEM version, their &quot;target&quot; instrumental version for MBH is one year off. So they get essentially the same reconstruction regardless of whether they get the instrumental year right. !?!?!</p>
<p>This is completely consistent with our understanding of MBH methods &#8211; a classic spurious regression of the bristlecones combined with massive &quot;overfitting&quot; from essentially white noise series in the calibration period, thus the breakdown of the cross-validation R2. I&#8217;ve shown a little how this works in <a href="http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=370" rel="nofollow">Huybers #2</a>, which has never attracted as much comment as I&#8217;d hoped, but really need to articule this in a longer form.</p>
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		<title>By: Spence_UK</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/03/rutherford-et-al-2005-collation-errors/#comment-43194</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Spence_UK]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2006 14:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=519#comment-43194</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the link update.  I downloaded the code and ran it, but of course the previous posters have addressed your key points already.

That just leaves me to rant about pet peeves in MatLab code, highlighting an observation from Phil.  One of the things I am particularly critical of is when people use the variables &quot;i&quot; and &quot;j&quot; in matlab code - particularly in scripts where variable scope is loose - as both of those tokens have built-in definitions, in particular they represent the square root of -1.  Once they have been declared as variables, the variable use overrides the constant, but it does not make for easy reading of the code.

Of course the use of these as variable names is a hang over from Fortran, in which they are commonly used as integer loops.  When anyone writing code for me does this I tell them to go away, and bring it back to me when they have used meaningful variable names!

OK this is a little bit petty, these guys are scientists, not software engineers, and these are short routines so there is not so much of an issue with sloppy code, as long as the code runs and gives the right answer.

Shame it didn&#039;t do that either...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the link update.  I downloaded the code and ran it, but of course the previous posters have addressed your key points already.</p>
<p>That just leaves me to rant about pet peeves in MatLab code, highlighting an observation from Phil.  One of the things I am particularly critical of is when people use the variables &#8220;i&#8221; and &#8220;j&#8221; in matlab code &#8211; particularly in scripts where variable scope is loose &#8211; as both of those tokens have built-in definitions, in particular they represent the square root of -1.  Once they have been declared as variables, the variable use overrides the constant, but it does not make for easy reading of the code.</p>
<p>Of course the use of these as variable names is a hang over from Fortran, in which they are commonly used as integer loops.  When anyone writing code for me does this I tell them to go away, and bring it back to me when they have used meaningful variable names!</p>
<p>OK this is a little bit petty, these guys are scientists, not software engineers, and these are short routines so there is not so much of an issue with sloppy code, as long as the code runs and gives the right answer.</p>
<p>Shame it didn&#8217;t do that either&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ET SidViscous</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/03/rutherford-et-al-2005-collation-errors/#comment-43193</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ET SidViscous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2006 22:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=519#comment-43193</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[http://www.freeproxy.ru/en/free_proxy/cgi-proxy.htm

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=29457]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.freeproxy.ru/en/free_proxy/cgi-proxy.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.freeproxy.ru/en/free_proxy/cgi-proxy.htm</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=29457" rel="nofollow">http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=29457</a></p>
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		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/03/rutherford-et-al-2005-collation-errors/#comment-43192</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2006 22:41:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=519#comment-43192</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#6 - I fixed the url for the link. (Since I&#039;m blocked, I couldn&#039;t just cut and paste).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#6 &#8211; I fixed the url for the link. (Since I&#8217;m blocked, I couldn&#8217;t just cut and paste).</p>
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		<title>By: Spence_UK</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/03/rutherford-et-al-2005-collation-errors/#comment-43191</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Spence_UK]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2006 22:11:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=519#comment-43191</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ooops part two: thousands of Canadian dollars might have been a more appropriate comment.  Not got my international head on today :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ooops part two: thousands of Canadian dollars might have been a more appropriate comment.  Not got my international head on today <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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