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	<title>Comments on: National Academies Panel on Temperature Reconstruction</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/07/national-academies-panel-on-temperature-reconstruction/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/07/national-academies-panel-on-temperature-reconstruction/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 15:32:22 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>By: TCO</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/07/national-academies-panel-on-temperature-reconstruction/#comment-43405</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TCO]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jun 2006 06:06:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=521#comment-43405</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Could we get the advance copy a little earlier?  I like how the internet frees things up.  I also want to read the IPCC draft without all the folderol of registering.  Someone should post that also.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could we get the advance copy a little earlier?  I like how the internet frees things up.  I also want to read the IPCC draft without all the folderol of registering.  Someone should post that also.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/07/national-academies-panel-on-temperature-reconstruction/#comment-43404</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:30:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=521#comment-43404</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ll be posting up something on Things To Look For in the NAS report - hopefully in an hour or so.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll be posting up something on Things To Look For in the NAS report &#8211; hopefully in an hour or so.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steve Schulin</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/07/national-academies-panel-on-temperature-reconstruction/#comment-43403</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Schulin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:28:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=521#comment-43403</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Advance copy of the panel report is available to reporters via email request to news@nas.edu -- the advisory was distributed via Eureka -- http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-06/tna-naa061906.php]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Advance copy of the panel report is available to reporters via email request to <a href="mailto:news@nas.edu">news@nas.edu</a> &#8212; the advisory was distributed via Eureka &#8212; <a href="http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-06/tna-naa061906.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-06/tna-naa061906.php</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Steve Schulin</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/07/national-academies-panel-on-temperature-reconstruction/#comment-43402</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Schulin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:16:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=521#comment-43402</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A regular on sci.environment posted an advisory from NAS about presentation of the panel&#039;s report, scheduled for June 22 (advance copies available June 21 to reporters). I took a quick look on NAS main web page and the panel&#039;s page -- http://www8.nationalacademies.org/cp/projectview.aspx?key=350 -- and didn&#039;t see the advisory there, but I thought I&#039;d pass it on anyway. Sorry about the truncated email address within the item:

National Academies advisory: Past surface temperatures and climate
change

Surface Temperature Reconstructions for the Last 2,000 Years, a new
congressionally requested report from the National Academies&#039; National
Research Council, assesses efforts to estimate historical temperature
variations based on tree rings, boreholes, and other &quot;proxy&quot; evidence.
The report also evaluates researchers&#039; conclusions about the planet&#039;s
recent warming compared to temperature trends in past centuries. It
will be released at a one-hour public briefing.
BRIEFING DETAILS:
Thursday, June 22, at 11 a.m. EDT in the Lecture Room of the National
Academies building, 2100 C St., N.W., Washington, D.C. Those who cannot
attend may listen to a live audio webcast and submit questions by
e-mail at http://nationalacademies.org.


###
REPORTERS: Register to attend the briefing or obtain an advance copy of
the report by contacting the Office of News and Public Information;
tel. 202-334-2138 or e-mail n...@nas.edu. Advance copies will be
available to reporters only beginning at 3 p.m. EDT on Wednesday, June
21. THE REPORT IS EMBARGOED AND NOT FOR PUBLIC RELEASE BEFORE 11 A.M.
EDT ON JUNE 22.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A regular on sci.environment posted an advisory from NAS about presentation of the panel&#8217;s report, scheduled for June 22 (advance copies available June 21 to reporters). I took a quick look on NAS main web page and the panel&#8217;s page &#8212; <a href="http://www8.nationalacademies.org/cp/projectview.aspx?key=350" rel="nofollow">http://www8.nationalacademies.org/cp/projectview.aspx?key=350</a> &#8212; and didn&#8217;t see the advisory there, but I thought I&#8217;d pass it on anyway. Sorry about the truncated email address within the item:</p>
<p>National Academies advisory: Past surface temperatures and climate<br />
change</p>
<p>Surface Temperature Reconstructions for the Last 2,000 Years, a new<br />
congressionally requested report from the National Academies&#8217; National<br />
Research Council, assesses efforts to estimate historical temperature<br />
variations based on tree rings, boreholes, and other &#8220;proxy&#8221; evidence.<br />
The report also evaluates researchers&#8217; conclusions about the planet&#8217;s<br />
recent warming compared to temperature trends in past centuries. It<br />
will be released at a one-hour public briefing.<br />
BRIEFING DETAILS:<br />
Thursday, June 22, at 11 a.m. EDT in the Lecture Room of the National<br />
Academies building, 2100 C St., N.W., Washington, D.C. Those who cannot<br />
attend may listen to a live audio webcast and submit questions by<br />
e-mail at <a href="http://nationalacademies.org" rel="nofollow">http://nationalacademies.org</a>.</p>
<p>###<br />
REPORTERS: Register to attend the briefing or obtain an advance copy of<br />
the report by contacting the Office of News and Public Information;<br />
tel. 202-334-2138 or e-mail <a href="mailto:n...@nas.edu">n&#8230;@nas.edu</a>. Advance copies will be<br />
available to reporters only beginning at 3 p.m. EDT on Wednesday, June<br />
21. THE REPORT IS EMBARGOED AND NOT FOR PUBLIC RELEASE BEFORE 11 A.M.<br />
EDT ON JUNE 22.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steve Sadlov</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/07/national-academies-panel-on-temperature-reconstruction/#comment-43401</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Sadlov]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2006 21:25:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=521#comment-43401</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[RE: #66. My story. I was a geophysics undergrad when I read &quot;Greenhouse&quot; by Dakota James. So, even though I was obviously studying a hard science (and working in high tech on the side) I also got sucked into the warmer camp, hook line and sinker. You see, from childhood I&#039;d been groomed by liberal parents to become a Gaia worshipper. My, oh my, that programming was difficult to overcome.

What started my own cycle of doubt were the following:
* Referring to the James book, 1990 arrived, and it looked like in 7 years, &quot;it&quot; would not happen (alluding to &quot;It Will Happen In 1997&quot; - James&#039; subtitle).
* As I aged, my formal education really started to kick in. I took a more data driven approach. I learned via hard knocks about noise, measurement system errors, selective data mining, and other problems.
* 1997 came and went, and still &quot;it&quot; had not happened.
* In the big picture, the sea ice continued to cycle as expected and the dramatic &quot;evidence that the ice caps (sic) were melting&quot; turned out to look more and more like observations taken in years that were in the lower range of extent. Got variation?
* I listed out all the potential sources of bias in surface readings and could not really convince myself that a single one of them ought to be discounted. Then, I tried to imagine how I might correct for such biases and quickly got way beyond my own math capabilities. That was telling.
* I ran into M&amp;M&#039;s 2003 paper and that pretty much sewed it up.
* Since then, I drilled down on (pun intended?) the Bristlecone Studies orthogonal to my own personal knowledge of the White Mountains and Eastern Sierra, and concluded that no one in their right mind would want to use Bristlecones as temperature proxies. Later, I began to question using any tree rings as proxies.

No agenda aforethough, only personal development at work for me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE: #66. My story. I was a geophysics undergrad when I read &#8220;Greenhouse&#8221; by Dakota James. So, even though I was obviously studying a hard science (and working in high tech on the side) I also got sucked into the warmer camp, hook line and sinker. You see, from childhood I&#8217;d been groomed by liberal parents to become a Gaia worshipper. My, oh my, that programming was difficult to overcome.</p>
<p>What started my own cycle of doubt were the following:<br />
* Referring to the James book, 1990 arrived, and it looked like in 7 years, &#8220;it&#8221; would not happen (alluding to &#8220;It Will Happen In 1997&#8243; &#8211; James&#8217; subtitle).<br />
* As I aged, my formal education really started to kick in. I took a more data driven approach. I learned via hard knocks about noise, measurement system errors, selective data mining, and other problems.<br />
* 1997 came and went, and still &#8220;it&#8221; had not happened.<br />
* In the big picture, the sea ice continued to cycle as expected and the dramatic &#8220;evidence that the ice caps (sic) were melting&#8221; turned out to look more and more like observations taken in years that were in the lower range of extent. Got variation?<br />
* I listed out all the potential sources of bias in surface readings and could not really convince myself that a single one of them ought to be discounted. Then, I tried to imagine how I might correct for such biases and quickly got way beyond my own math capabilities. That was telling.<br />
* I ran into M&amp;M&#8217;s 2003 paper and that pretty much sewed it up.<br />
* Since then, I drilled down on (pun intended?) the Bristlecone Studies orthogonal to my own personal knowledge of the White Mountains and Eastern Sierra, and concluded that no one in their right mind would want to use Bristlecones as temperature proxies. Later, I began to question using any tree rings as proxies.</p>
<p>No agenda aforethough, only personal development at work for me.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: David H</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/07/national-academies-panel-on-temperature-reconstruction/#comment-43400</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David H]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2006 14:22:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=521#comment-43400</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re the lost squadron of P38&#039;s, I have done a bit more googling and found the account of one of the rescuers at http://www.bloomington.in.us/~mop-i/tools.html.    In this account the planes had move about 1.5 miles and were 268 ft below the surface in the 63.5 years since they landed.    This is a drift of about 38m a year and an ice formation rate of about 1.3 m a year.

There is a map at:  http://thelostsquadron.com/p-38-pages/p-38-lightning-history.htm

The question arises as to whether they sank through the ice or were buried.    The best argument I have read is that their centre of gravity is forward of their centre of lift and if sinking through air water or ice they would tend to go nose down but they were found horizontal.    The other argument is that they exert insufficient pressure on the ice to melt it at the low temperatures where they landed.

This seems to be another bit of history (more recent than others) that is inconvenient for certain theories.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re the lost squadron of P38&#8242;s, I have done a bit more googling and found the account of one of the rescuers at <a href="http://www.bloomington.in.us/~mop-i/tools.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.bloomington.in.us/~mop-i/tools.html</a>.    In this account the planes had move about 1.5 miles and were 268 ft below the surface in the 63.5 years since they landed.    This is a drift of about 38m a year and an ice formation rate of about 1.3 m a year.</p>
<p>There is a map at:  <a href="http://thelostsquadron.com/p-38-pages/p-38-lightning-history.htm" rel="nofollow">http://thelostsquadron.com/p-38-pages/p-38-lightning-history.htm</a></p>
<p>The question arises as to whether they sank through the ice or were buried.    The best argument I have read is that their centre of gravity is forward of their centre of lift and if sinking through air water or ice they would tend to go nose down but they were found horizontal.    The other argument is that they exert insufficient pressure on the ice to melt it at the low temperatures where they landed.</p>
<p>This seems to be another bit of history (more recent than others) that is inconvenient for certain theories.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: per</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/07/national-academies-panel-on-temperature-reconstruction/#comment-43399</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[per]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2006 19:49:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=521#comment-43399</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[re: 97, I thought that the chair G R North, listed statistical analyses as part of his specialist area.
cheers
per]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: 97, I thought that the chair G R North, listed statistical analyses as part of his specialist area.<br />
cheers<br />
per</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: fFreddy</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/07/national-academies-panel-on-temperature-reconstruction/#comment-43398</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fFreddy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2006 16:36:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=521#comment-43398</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re #109, William Connolley
&lt;blockquote&gt;...always nice to see people upholding association with the IPCC as the Gold Standard...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Hercules was associated with the Augean stables ...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #109, William Connolley</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8230;always nice to see people upholding association with the IPCC as the Gold Standard&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>Hercules was associated with the Augean stables &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: William Connolley</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/07/national-academies-panel-on-temperature-reconstruction/#comment-43397</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[William Connolley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2006 16:05:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=521#comment-43397</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nanny sez &quot;I&#039;m going to put my money on the Hockey Team declaring &quot;intimidation&quot; or some such thing and then not showing up.&quot;

Jae sez &quot;I&#039;ll bet the Hockey Team is going to lose, big time.&quot;

So... exactly how much are you prepared to bet? Or are these just empty words?

#72 &quot;I am a peer reviewer for IPCC 4AR&quot; - always nice to see people upholding association with the IPCC as the Gold Standard. But could you clarify: you mean you are an &quot;expert reviewer&quot;?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nanny sez &#8220;I&#8217;m going to put my money on the Hockey Team declaring &#8220;intimidation&#8221; or some such thing and then not showing up.&#8221;</p>
<p>Jae sez &#8220;I&#8217;ll bet the Hockey Team is going to lose, big time.&#8221;</p>
<p>So&#8230; exactly how much are you prepared to bet? Or are these just empty words?</p>
<p>#72 &#8220;I am a peer reviewer for IPCC 4AR&#8221; &#8211; always nice to see people upholding association with the IPCC as the Gold Standard. But could you clarify: you mean you are an &#8220;expert reviewer&#8221;?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ET SidViscous</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/07/national-academies-panel-on-temperature-reconstruction/#comment-43396</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ET SidViscous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2006 04:57:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=521#comment-43396</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;When was the MWP? I need exact dates, i.e., 971-1292. None of this &quot;10th-11th century&quot; generality. &quot;
&quot;Do you want the nearest month or WHAT?&quot;

I don&#039;t have the dates on he MWP but watching Father Ted now I was reminded that the Ice age (Not the little one) ended on July the 19th.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;When was the MWP? I need exact dates, i.e., 971-1292. None of this &#8220;10th-11th century&#8221; generality. &#8221;<br />
&#8220;Do you want the nearest month or WHAT?&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have the dates on he MWP but watching Father Ted now I was reminded that the Ice age (Not the little one) ended on July the 19th.</p>
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