<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Positive and Negative Responders</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/12/positive-and-negative-responders/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/12/positive-and-negative-responders/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 19 May 2013 07:46:52 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Survivorship Bias « Climate Audit</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/12/positive-and-negative-responders/#comment-372500</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Survivorship Bias « Climate Audit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Nov 2011 15:13:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=527#comment-372500</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Down Quadratic  Twisted Tree Heartrot Hill  Wilmking in Alaska Positive and Negative Responders bender on [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Down Quadratic  Twisted Tree Heartrot Hill  Wilmking in Alaska Positive and Negative Responders bender on [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: More on Positive and Negative Responders « Climate Audit</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/12/positive-and-negative-responders/#comment-372492</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[More on Positive and Negative Responders « Climate Audit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Nov 2011 15:11:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=527#comment-372492</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] widths going down while temperatures go up. Previous discussions included: Wilmking in Alaska and Positive and Negative Responders. Other related posts include Upside Down Quadratic, Twisted Tree Heartrot Hill , bender on Gaspé  [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] widths going down while temperatures go up. Previous discussions included: Wilmking in Alaska and Positive and Negative Responders. Other related posts include Upside Down Quadratic, Twisted Tree Heartrot Hill , bender on Gaspé  [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Wilson et al 2007 &#171; Climate Audit</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/12/positive-and-negative-responders/#comment-256754</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wilson et al 2007 &#171; Climate Audit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Feb 2011 22:53:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=527#comment-256754</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] 2005,, also see ppt here, coauthored by Wilmking, which was previously discussed in CA in the post Positive and Negative Responders and are type examples for Wilmking&#8217;s positive and negative responders. (Also see previous [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 2005,, also see ppt here, coauthored by Wilmking, which was previously discussed in CA in the post Positive and Negative Responders and are type examples for Wilmking&#8217;s positive and negative responders. (Also see previous [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nordic</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/12/positive-and-negative-responders/#comment-43680</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nordic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Dec 2006 07:23:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=527#comment-43680</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[RE #34:  I don&#039;t know if this has been posted on CA before, but some of Giddings publications (and many other interesting papers can be found here:http://www.treeringsociety.org/TRBTRR/TRBTRR.htm

Just a teaser: The 1947 Mackenzie River delta ends with this sentence: &quot;Whaterver the cause, we can look to these northernmost American trees for proof of borderline stability for at least five centuries&quot;

It is too bad their chronologies did not extend back further - eyeballing the graph seems seem to get interesting in the 1400s, not to mention at the right-hand side of the graph in the &#039;30s.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE #34:  I don&#8217;t know if this has been posted on CA before, but some of Giddings publications (and many other interesting papers can be found here:<a href="http://www.treeringsociety.org/TRBTRR/TRBTRR.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.treeringsociety.org/TRBTRR/TRBTRR.htm</a></p>
<p>Just a teaser: The 1947 Mackenzie River delta ends with this sentence: &#8220;Whaterver the cause, we can look to these northernmost American trees for proof of borderline stability for at least five centuries&#8221;</p>
<p>It is too bad their chronologies did not extend back further &#8211; eyeballing the graph seems seem to get interesting in the 1400s, not to mention at the right-hand side of the graph in the &#8217;30s.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Pat Frank</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/12/positive-and-negative-responders/#comment-43679</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pat Frank]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Aug 2006 00:51:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=527#comment-43679</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#50 -- Thanks, Steve. Tang 1999 looks very interesting, and it may be that the data are already in hand to test whether a carbon kinetic isotope temperature could be calculated from tree ring ratios. It&#039;s peculiar to me that there is a specific stromatal diffusion rate difference between 12-C and 13-C, but it means that the eventual isotopic ratios in the tree ring organic matrix reflects more than just the metabolic rate differences.

#54, Dave, thanks for your comments. I suspect that seasonal climatic variations ought to factor out in a kinetic rate ratio, because both carbon isotopes of CO2 would be influenced identically, leaving nothing but a temperature signal.  I don&#039;t have time just now to look into the idea and it&#039;s been a very long time since I did any physical organic chemistry, but maybe it would eventually be worth checking out. It certainly has the promise of producing results faster than generation-long greenhouse growth parameterization studies. :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#50 &#8212; Thanks, Steve. Tang 1999 looks very interesting, and it may be that the data are already in hand to test whether a carbon kinetic isotope temperature could be calculated from tree ring ratios. It&#8217;s peculiar to me that there is a specific stromatal diffusion rate difference between 12-C and 13-C, but it means that the eventual isotopic ratios in the tree ring organic matrix reflects more than just the metabolic rate differences.</p>
<p>#54, Dave, thanks for your comments. I suspect that seasonal climatic variations ought to factor out in a kinetic rate ratio, because both carbon isotopes of CO2 would be influenced identically, leaving nothing but a temperature signal.  I don&#8217;t have time just now to look into the idea and it&#8217;s been a very long time since I did any physical organic chemistry, but maybe it would eventually be worth checking out. It certainly has the promise of producing results faster than generation-long greenhouse growth parameterization studies. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: john lichtenstein</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/12/positive-and-negative-responders/#comment-43678</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[john lichtenstein]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Aug 2006 00:37:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=527#comment-43678</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[SteveM you might want to touch base with Wegman about his &lt;a&gt;August 9 jsm presentation&lt;/a&gt;. Now that you have shown everyone the directions to Flawed Study Mountain don&#039;t be surprised to find rival prospectors showing up. You might want to think about work you would like to see other people doing. For example it would be good to have a real &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expectation-maximization_algorithm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;EM&lt;/a&gt; expert looking at the paleo RegEM stuff. I remember a post here a while ago that someone thought it was impossible to have verification statistics when using EM. Oh boy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SteveM you might want to touch base with Wegman about his <a>August 9 jsm presentation</a>. Now that you have shown everyone the directions to Flawed Study Mountain don&#8217;t be surprised to find rival prospectors showing up. You might want to think about work you would like to see other people doing. For example it would be good to have a real <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expectation-maximization_algorithm" rel="nofollow">EM</a> expert looking at the paleo RegEM stuff. I remember a post here a while ago that someone thought it was impossible to have verification statistics when using EM. Oh boy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/12/positive-and-negative-responders/#comment-43677</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Aug 2006 22:03:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=527#comment-43677</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#51. Kevin, can you point me to a template for what you have in mind?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#51. Kevin, can you point me to a template for what you have in mind?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: James Lane</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/12/positive-and-negative-responders/#comment-43676</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Lane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Aug 2006 21:25:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=527#comment-43676</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[TCO&lt;blockquote&gt;
I guess I can give it a rest, since I⢢¯ve made the point.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
That would be great, because you&#039;ve made the point maybe 100 times.

I&#039;m sure that Steve has publications in the pipeline, and it would be improper for him to presage them on the blog.

That said, there has been an explosion of quality thinking on CA in the last couple of months - I don&#039;t know if that&#039;s due to the profile of the NAS panel or the vindication in the Wegman report (or neither) but it&#039;s very entertaining and worthwhile.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TCO<br />
<blockquote>
I guess I can give it a rest, since I⢢¯ve made the point.
</p></blockquote>
<p>That would be great, because you&#8217;ve made the point maybe 100 times.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure that Steve has publications in the pipeline, and it would be improper for him to presage them on the blog.</p>
<p>That said, there has been an explosion of quality thinking on CA in the last couple of months &#8211; I don&#8217;t know if that&#8217;s due to the profile of the NAS panel or the vindication in the Wegman report (or neither) but it&#8217;s very entertaining and worthwhile.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dave Dardinger</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/12/positive-and-negative-responders/#comment-43675</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Dardinger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Aug 2006 20:57:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=527#comment-43675</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pat, I think someone, probably Bender, posted a link to something like that here recently concerning disentangling isotope signals from evaporation from those of rainfall.

One problem I see is that most of the isotope separation would come at the step where CO2 from the air is captured.  I&#039;m not sure of the exact details, but I know that grasses tend to capture energy from the sun during the day and then used the captured energy to capture CO2 at night when it&#039;s cooler and they can open their stomata to let more air in without losing too much water in the process.  That&#039;s one big aspect of the CO2 fertilization effect, for instance; it lets  non-grassy plants keep their stomata more closed thus saving water loss.

But that brings up one thing to be considered with trees.  Since they aren&#039;t grasses, they must open their stomata while they&#039;re photosynthesing, and this means that to be effective they must be able to afford to lose the water which escapes while they&#039;re capturing CO2.  So it&#039;s precisely when it&#039;s warmest, and thus they&#039;re most able to produce sugars for growth that they&#039;re most likely to be vulnerable to water stress.  If it&#039;s either not THAT warm so not too much water is being lost or they have ample water availability they will grow lots, but if its really hot and they don&#039;t have enough water then the opportunity is lost which would show up as smaller rings than there might have been.

But as far as the isotope composition of what growth there was, that might be tricky.  If you had dry ground but a wet spring and  lots of growth in early summer then less growth during the hotter weather then it&#039;d look isotopically like it was a cooler year than if you had lots of carryover moisture in the soil and this allowed plenty of growth in the hottest part of the summer even though the actual average temperature was higher.  I suppose if you could actually measure isotope composition from various parts of the year this would help untangle things but it sounds tricky.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pat, I think someone, probably Bender, posted a link to something like that here recently concerning disentangling isotope signals from evaporation from those of rainfall.</p>
<p>One problem I see is that most of the isotope separation would come at the step where CO2 from the air is captured.  I&#8217;m not sure of the exact details, but I know that grasses tend to capture energy from the sun during the day and then used the captured energy to capture CO2 at night when it&#8217;s cooler and they can open their stomata to let more air in without losing too much water in the process.  That&#8217;s one big aspect of the CO2 fertilization effect, for instance; it lets  non-grassy plants keep their stomata more closed thus saving water loss.</p>
<p>But that brings up one thing to be considered with trees.  Since they aren&#8217;t grasses, they must open their stomata while they&#8217;re photosynthesing, and this means that to be effective they must be able to afford to lose the water which escapes while they&#8217;re capturing CO2.  So it&#8217;s precisely when it&#8217;s warmest, and thus they&#8217;re most able to produce sugars for growth that they&#8217;re most likely to be vulnerable to water stress.  If it&#8217;s either not THAT warm so not too much water is being lost or they have ample water availability they will grow lots, but if its really hot and they don&#8217;t have enough water then the opportunity is lost which would show up as smaller rings than there might have been.</p>
<p>But as far as the isotope composition of what growth there was, that might be tricky.  If you had dry ground but a wet spring and  lots of growth in early summer then less growth during the hotter weather then it&#8217;d look isotopically like it was a cooler year than if you had lots of carryover moisture in the soil and this allowed plenty of growth in the hottest part of the summer even though the actual average temperature was higher.  I suppose if you could actually measure isotope composition from various parts of the year this would help untangle things but it sounds tricky.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: bender</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/12/positive-and-negative-responders/#comment-43674</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bender]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Aug 2006 20:53:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=527#comment-43674</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bibliography of Dendrochronology provides this for a search on &quot;C13&quot;:
Libby, L.M., Pandolfi, L.J. 1973. Measured temperature coefficients of C13/C12 and O18/O16 in European oaks. In: Proceedings of the International CLIMAP Conference. Norwich, Norfolk, United Kingdom: 21-39.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bibliography of Dendrochronology provides this for a search on &#8220;C13&#8243;:<br />
Libby, L.M., Pandolfi, L.J. 1973. Measured temperature coefficients of C13/C12 and O18/O16 in European oaks. In: Proceedings of the International CLIMAP Conference. Norwich, Norfolk, United Kingdom: 21-39.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
