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	<title>Comments on: Moberg Corrigendum #2</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/25/moberg-corrigendum-2/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/25/moberg-corrigendum-2/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 12:21:51 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: jae</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/25/moberg-corrigendum-2/#comment-44675</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jae]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Mar 2006 17:42:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=553#comment-44675</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This whole AGW thing is really a tempest in a teapot, IMHO.  People are not going to stand by and watch their standard of living go down, even if AGW is a fact. They will continue to buy SUVs, travel by air, etc. until the price of fuel makes it too expensive.  I don&#039;t imagine the warmers, even, have curtailed flying in favor of teleconferences to cut CO2 emissions.  Look at Europe; there is a lot of song and dance there about Kyoto, but nothing substantial is really happening.  The Third World is totally ignoring all this. It&#039;s all about money.  When the price of fossil fuels gets high enough, we will use alternative sources of energy, such as solar cells, it&#039;s that simple.  In the mean time, some liberal governments, like California&#039;s, will levy taxes to help decrease demand, but I don&#039;t think the public will allow enough of this to really make any difference.  Industry will make changes that make economical sense, and that will help some.  But, if AGW is a fact, we are just going to have to live with the consequences (which may be very positive).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This whole AGW thing is really a tempest in a teapot, IMHO.  People are not going to stand by and watch their standard of living go down, even if AGW is a fact. They will continue to buy SUVs, travel by air, etc. until the price of fuel makes it too expensive.  I don&#8217;t imagine the warmers, even, have curtailed flying in favor of teleconferences to cut CO2 emissions.  Look at Europe; there is a lot of song and dance there about Kyoto, but nothing substantial is really happening.  The Third World is totally ignoring all this. It&#8217;s all about money.  When the price of fossil fuels gets high enough, we will use alternative sources of energy, such as solar cells, it&#8217;s that simple.  In the mean time, some liberal governments, like California&#8217;s, will levy taxes to help decrease demand, but I don&#8217;t think the public will allow enough of this to really make any difference.  Industry will make changes that make economical sense, and that will help some.  But, if AGW is a fact, we are just going to have to live with the consequences (which may be very positive).</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/25/moberg-corrigendum-2/#comment-44674</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Mar 2006 17:26:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=553#comment-44674</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[RE #135:

My point still stands... people, including policy makers, don&#039;t read (and if they did, I doubt they&#039;d really understand it) the actual report.  The policy makers then also parrot what they&#039;ve read in the summary report (and reinforced by the media).  And then the media report that the policy makers say and the idea gets reinforcing...much like what happens when you&#039;re in the bath tub and start making waves...if you do it just right you can keep amplifying the wave until most of the tub has spilled out on the floor making a huge mess to be cleaned up.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE #135:</p>
<p>My point still stands&#8230; people, including policy makers, don&#8217;t read (and if they did, I doubt they&#8217;d really understand it) the actual report.  The policy makers then also parrot what they&#8217;ve read in the summary report (and reinforced by the media).  And then the media report that the policy makers say and the idea gets reinforcing&#8230;much like what happens when you&#8217;re in the bath tub and start making waves&#8230;if you do it just right you can keep amplifying the wave until most of the tub has spilled out on the floor making a huge mess to be cleaned up.</p>
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		<title>By: bruce</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/25/moberg-corrigendum-2/#comment-44673</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bruce]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Mar 2006 17:17:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=553#comment-44673</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re #129:  Errr Paul.  Before you blame the media, don&#039;t you think you should have referred to the rather significant differences between the Summary for Policy Makers (which is probably all the journalists both reading) and the body of the report, where the caveats and warnings appear?  The Hockeystick is presented as on of the main exhibits for the &quot;We&#039;ll all be rooned&quot; case in the Summary for Policy Makers, and that is what has been picked up by the media.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #129:  Errr Paul.  Before you blame the media, don&#8217;t you think you should have referred to the rather significant differences between the Summary for Policy Makers (which is probably all the journalists both reading) and the body of the report, where the caveats and warnings appear?  The Hockeystick is presented as on of the main exhibits for the &#8220;We&#8217;ll all be rooned&#8221; case in the Summary for Policy Makers, and that is what has been picked up by the media.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Gosling</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/25/moberg-corrigendum-2/#comment-44672</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Gosling]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Mar 2006 17:00:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=553#comment-44672</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re #127

Of course you are correct. On the other hand if people (the general not scientifically educated/interested majority) really believe what the BBC and the like put out about climate change, then they don&#039;t seem to be doing much about it. Perhaps after reading the BBC web site they go away and read &#039;Climate of Fear&#039;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #127</p>
<p>Of course you are correct. On the other hand if people (the general not scientifically educated/interested majority) really believe what the BBC and the like put out about climate change, then they don&#8217;t seem to be doing much about it. Perhaps after reading the BBC web site they go away and read &#8216;Climate of Fear&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Hearnden</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/25/moberg-corrigendum-2/#comment-44671</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter Hearnden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Mar 2006 15:42:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=553#comment-44671</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re #132 he**s bells I agree with part of the first para! No one thinks &lt;em&gt;all&lt;/em&gt; the waming is anthro, and, I predict, no one will.

Btw, what&#039;s the bet, what would &#039;misleading&#039; be (whatever they say I rekon) and what would &#039;alarmist&#039; be (I&#039;d guess predicting any warmer than now, perhaps even a prediction of temps not falling)? Since you&#039;d also, as you allways do, simply dismiss out of hand any climate prediction &lt;em&gt;what so ever&lt;/em&gt; I can see why you&#039;d offer a such &#039;gamble&#039;...

What odds would you offer that the high end of the predicted range or warming will be &lt;em&gt;lower&lt;/em&gt; in the next report?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #132 he**s bells I agree with part of the first para! No one thinks <em>all</em> the waming is anthro, and, I predict, no one will.</p>
<p>Btw, what&#8217;s the bet, what would &#8216;misleading&#8217; be (whatever they say I rekon) and what would &#8216;alarmist&#8217; be (I&#8217;d guess predicting any warmer than now, perhaps even a prediction of temps not falling)? Since you&#8217;d also, as you allways do, simply dismiss out of hand any climate prediction <em>what so ever</em> I can see why you&#8217;d offer a such &#8216;gamble&#8217;&#8230;</p>
<p>What odds would you offer that the high end of the predicted range or warming will be <em>lower</em> in the next report?</p>
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		<title>By: John A</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/25/moberg-corrigendum-2/#comment-44670</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John A]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Mar 2006 15:19:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=553#comment-44670</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re #127

Actually what you didn&#039;t pick up on was the straw man argument constructed. No-one I know of would blame all of the warming of the 20th Century on man-made influences...at least, not yet.

We&#039;ll have to wait and see. But I&#039;m willing to bet good money that the Summary for Policy Makers will be even more misleading and alarmist than previous ones.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #127</p>
<p>Actually what you didn&#8217;t pick up on was the straw man argument constructed. No-one I know of would blame all of the warming of the 20th Century on man-made influences&#8230;at least, not yet.</p>
<p>We&#8217;ll have to wait and see. But I&#8217;m willing to bet good money that the Summary for Policy Makers will be even more misleading and alarmist than previous ones.</p>
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		<title>By: jae</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/25/moberg-corrigendum-2/#comment-44669</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jae]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Mar 2006 14:48:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=553#comment-44669</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[129 Very good point, Paul.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>129 Very good point, Paul.</p>
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		<title>By: JerryB</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/25/moberg-corrigendum-2/#comment-44668</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JerryB]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Mar 2006 14:45:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=553#comment-44668</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[John L Re #126,

Thanks, Indeed, that 117 should have been 120.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John L Re #126,</p>
<p>Thanks, Indeed, that 117 should have been 120.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/25/moberg-corrigendum-2/#comment-44667</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Mar 2006 14:15:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=553#comment-44667</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[RE #127:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Your quotes are not from the IPCC but from the BBC, a well known flag waver for AGW. Lets see what the next IPCC assesment actually says rather than what the BBC is speculating it says.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The problem is, and it&#039;s a real significant problem, that most people don&#039;t read the IPCC reports, they read the media&#039;s reporting of the reports.  The IPCC has a significant number of caveats, warnings, etc. but that doesn&#039;t stop everyone from pointing to the hockeystick.  In many ways, it&#039;s a brilliant marketing plan.  The &lt;i&gt;actual&lt;/i&gt; report doesn&#039;t say what everyone thinks it says, but says it in a way, with help from others, to &lt;i&gt;cause&lt;/i&gt; everyone think it says what they want them to think it says.

The net result is that people go around talking about the extreme possiblities, the things that might happen, assuming the worst, because it makes good news and promotes particular agenda.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE #127:</p>
<blockquote><p>Your quotes are not from the IPCC but from the BBC, a well known flag waver for AGW. Lets see what the next IPCC assesment actually says rather than what the BBC is speculating it says.</p></blockquote>
<p>The problem is, and it&#8217;s a real significant problem, that most people don&#8217;t read the IPCC reports, they read the media&#8217;s reporting of the reports.  The IPCC has a significant number of caveats, warnings, etc. but that doesn&#8217;t stop everyone from pointing to the hockeystick.  In many ways, it&#8217;s a brilliant marketing plan.  The <i>actual</i> report doesn&#8217;t say what everyone thinks it says, but says it in a way, with help from others, to <i>cause</i> everyone think it says what they want them to think it says.</p>
<p>The net result is that people go around talking about the extreme possiblities, the things that might happen, assuming the worst, because it makes good news and promotes particular agenda.</p>
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		<title>By: John Lish</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/02/25/moberg-corrigendum-2/#comment-44666</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Lish]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Mar 2006 13:51:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=553#comment-44666</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#126 JerryB, I think you are actually refering to #120 not #117. If you read the first sentence Ian states that &quot;the concentration of CO2 around 10 times higher then it is today&quot; then he goes on to point out the difference of temperature of 7C. I think the napkin is holding up fine.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#126 JerryB, I think you are actually refering to #120 not #117. If you read the first sentence Ian states that &#8220;the concentration of CO2 around 10 times higher then it is today&#8221; then he goes on to point out the difference of temperature of 7C. I think the napkin is holding up fine.</p>
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