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	<title>Comments on: Enron Trial in the News</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2006/03/09/enron-trial-in-the-news/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/03/09/enron-trial-in-the-news/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 19 Jun 2013 02:29:14 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Rob Bradley: Climategate from an Enron Perspective &#171; Climate Audit</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/03/09/enron-trial-in-the-news/#comment-421450</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rob Bradley: Climategate from an Enron Perspective &#171; Climate Audit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 May 2013 15:31:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=575#comment-421450</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] http://climateaudit.org/2006/03/09/enron-trial-in-the-news/ [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] <a href="http://climateaudit.org/2006/03/09/enron-trial-in-the-news/" rel="nofollow">http://climateaudit.org/2006/03/09/enron-trial-in-the-news/</a> [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: ET SidViscous</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/03/09/enron-trial-in-the-news/#comment-45791</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ET SidViscous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Jul 2006 07:02:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=575#comment-45791</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Since the search function in Wordpress is as bad as the search funstion in most forums I couldn&#039;t find the relevant discusion.

But this link shows what&#039;s can possibly happen to those that pursue research fraud.

http://tinyurl.com/r7hmw]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since the search function in WordPress is as bad as the search funstion in most forums I couldn&#8217;t find the relevant discusion.</p>
<p>But this link shows what&#8217;s can possibly happen to those that pursue research fraud.</p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/r7hmw" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/r7hmw</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: JerryB</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/03/09/enron-trial-in-the-news/#comment-45790</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JerryB]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=575#comment-45790</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[During an interview, Jack Eddy happened to characterize early reactions to the idea of there being a &quot;solar wind&quot;:

WEART:  I see, so how did you get started on the Maunder Minimum?  In your 1976 science paper, you mentioned Gene [Eugene] Parker.

EDDY:  Right, Gene Parker was an occasional visitor at the High Altitude Observatory in Boulder.  He&#039;s from the University of Chicago, as anyone who listens to this knows.  I remember him coming there in the late 1950s and giving a colloquium on his wild idea that there was a solar wind, before that was accepted by anyone.  I remember the unanimous reaction of the solar physicists to his idea:  what a ridiculous notion that was -- a wind blowing charged particles out of the Sun.  It reinforces what I said earlier:  that new ideas, if they are worth anything, will always be met by a knee-jerk rejection on the part of the disciplinary experts.  It also tells something about Gene, who was never afraid of stepping into new things.  Later, in the early 1970s, he called Maunder&#039;s early papers to my attention:  did I know about this thing in the past?  (I did not.)  Because he knew I had an interest in history.  I don&#039;t know just why he told me.  He may have known that at that time I was cautiously and with some prejudice digging back into the history of sun weather relations, which is another story.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>During an interview, Jack Eddy happened to characterize early reactions to the idea of there being a &#8220;solar wind&#8221;:</p>
<p>WEART:  I see, so how did you get started on the Maunder Minimum?  In your 1976 science paper, you mentioned Gene [Eugene] Parker.</p>
<p>EDDY:  Right, Gene Parker was an occasional visitor at the High Altitude Observatory in Boulder.  He&#8217;s from the University of Chicago, as anyone who listens to this knows.  I remember him coming there in the late 1950s and giving a colloquium on his wild idea that there was a solar wind, before that was accepted by anyone.  I remember the unanimous reaction of the solar physicists to his idea:  what a ridiculous notion that was &#8212; a wind blowing charged particles out of the Sun.  It reinforces what I said earlier:  that new ideas, if they are worth anything, will always be met by a knee-jerk rejection on the part of the disciplinary experts.  It also tells something about Gene, who was never afraid of stepping into new things.  Later, in the early 1970s, he called Maunder&#8217;s early papers to my attention:  did I know about this thing in the past?  (I did not.)  Because he knew I had an interest in history.  I don&#8217;t know just why he told me.  He may have known that at that time I was cautiously and with some prejudice digging back into the history of sun weather relations, which is another story.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Sadlov</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/03/09/enron-trial-in-the-news/#comment-45789</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Sadlov]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:58:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=575#comment-45789</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sarbannes-Oxley has been a highly effective albeit possibly heavy handed way to force better tranparency and disclosure in the business world.

Imagine if it were applied to:
* Government
* NGOs
* Education establishments?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sarbannes-Oxley has been a highly effective albeit possibly heavy handed way to force better tranparency and disclosure in the business world.</p>
<p>Imagine if it were applied to:<br />
* Government<br />
* NGOs<br />
* Education establishments?</p>
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		<title>By: David Stockwell</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/03/09/enron-trial-in-the-news/#comment-45788</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Stockwell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:39:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=575#comment-45788</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Another excellent example is The inertia of scientific thought by Thomas Gold  http://www.suppressedscience.net/inertiaofscientificthought.html

&lt;blockquote&gt;Shortly after the discovery of pulsars I wished to present an interpretation of what pulsars were, at this first pulsar conference: namely that they were rotating neutron stars. The chief organiser of this conference said to me, &quot;Tommy, if I allow for that crazy an interpretation, there is no limit to what I would have to allow&quot;. I was not allowed five minutes floor time, although I in fact spoke from the floor. A few months later, this same organiser started a paper with the sentence, &quot;It is now generally considered that pulsars are rotating neutron stars&quot;.&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another excellent example is The inertia of scientific thought by Thomas Gold  <a href="http://www.suppressedscience.net/inertiaofscientificthought.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.suppressedscience.net/inertiaofscientificthought.html</a></p>
<blockquote><p>Shortly after the discovery of pulsars I wished to present an interpretation of what pulsars were, at this first pulsar conference: namely that they were rotating neutron stars. The chief organiser of this conference said to me, &#8220;Tommy, if I allow for that crazy an interpretation, there is no limit to what I would have to allow&#8221;. I was not allowed five minutes floor time, although I in fact spoke from the floor. A few months later, this same organiser started a paper with the sentence, &#8220;It is now generally considered that pulsars are rotating neutron stars&#8221;.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Mike Carney</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/03/09/enron-trial-in-the-news/#comment-45787</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Carney]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:33:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=575#comment-45787</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;One of the NAS panellists observed to me privately with some satisfaction that even our writings show that &quot;science works&quot;. He mentioned, in my opinion, a little condescendingly that &quot;science&quot; would have got to the present situation with or without us, as others were already starting to do what we did.&lt;/blockquote&gt;  This sounds like both sour grapes and hubris of the worst kind.  Steve deserves congratulations for his contribution to the science.  A contribution done in spite of terrific resistence from the climate community and media.  Would some else of done it?  Maybe, but just because &quot;someone&quot; would have discovered it, don&#039;t disparage Steve&#039;s contribution.  He is the one that did it.

An assumption of invincibility is always dangerous and there are counter examples where science hasn&#039;t worked.  A good one is Paul Erhlich who is comfortably ensconced at Stanford despite his penchant for wild predictions that fail to materialize (e.g. he was willing to bet even money that England would not exist in the year 2000).  To his credit he has actually made testable predictions.  To his discredit he assiduously ignores his failures.  Then there was his bet with Julian Simon that was very well defined, over a ten year period.  Once again his theory went down in flames.  He actually wrote an entire book on this bet exlaining why it doesn&#039;t matter, why he did not really lose, and how he won a new bet he created that Julian never accepted.  And yet &quot;science&quot; has rewarded him handsomely with respect and position.  Julian, best as I am aware, was not so rewarded.  Here the scientific community has failed miserably.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>One of the NAS panellists observed to me privately with some satisfaction that even our writings show that &#8220;science works&#8221;. He mentioned, in my opinion, a little condescendingly that &#8220;science&#8221; would have got to the present situation with or without us, as others were already starting to do what we did.</p></blockquote>
<p>  This sounds like both sour grapes and hubris of the worst kind.  Steve deserves congratulations for his contribution to the science.  A contribution done in spite of terrific resistence from the climate community and media.  Would some else of done it?  Maybe, but just because &#8220;someone&#8221; would have discovered it, don&#8217;t disparage Steve&#8217;s contribution.  He is the one that did it.</p>
<p>An assumption of invincibility is always dangerous and there are counter examples where science hasn&#8217;t worked.  A good one is Paul Erhlich who is comfortably ensconced at Stanford despite his penchant for wild predictions that fail to materialize (e.g. he was willing to bet even money that England would not exist in the year 2000).  To his credit he has actually made testable predictions.  To his discredit he assiduously ignores his failures.  Then there was his bet with Julian Simon that was very well defined, over a ten year period.  Once again his theory went down in flames.  He actually wrote an entire book on this bet exlaining why it doesn&#8217;t matter, why he did not really lose, and how he won a new bet he created that Julian never accepted.  And yet &#8220;science&#8221; has rewarded him handsomely with respect and position.  Julian, best as I am aware, was not so rewarded.  Here the scientific community has failed miserably.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/03/09/enron-trial-in-the-news/#comment-45786</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:55:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=575#comment-45786</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#10. My recollection is that, long after the destruction of Anderson as an accounting firm, there was some measure of exoneration in the final litigation.

As an aside, the amount of money paid to consultants baffles me. How could a company year after year need millions of dollars of consulting? What is the value added by some kid fresh out of B-school?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#10. My recollection is that, long after the destruction of Anderson as an accounting firm, there was some measure of exoneration in the final litigation.</p>
<p>As an aside, the amount of money paid to consultants baffles me. How could a company year after year need millions of dollars of consulting? What is the value added by some kid fresh out of B-school?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Penrose</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/03/09/enron-trial-in-the-news/#comment-45785</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Penrose]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:38:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=575#comment-45785</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: #9
That was a major contributing factor behind the fall of Enron, yes. Apparently the consults put pressure on the auditors to overlook some red flags that had been uncovered, and they won out because the consulting contract brought in much more money. That was the reason for the original legislation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: #9<br />
That was a major contributing factor behind the fall of Enron, yes. Apparently the consults put pressure on the auditors to overlook some red flags that had been uncovered, and they won out because the consulting contract brought in much more money. That was the reason for the original legislation.</p>
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		<title>By: Harry G</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/03/09/enron-trial-in-the-news/#comment-45784</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Harry G]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:15:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=575#comment-45784</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re # 8
Paul

So what you are saying is that the problem was that the auditors (reviewers) were from the same consulting company (scientific community) as the consultants (collaborators)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re # 8<br />
Paul</p>
<p>So what you are saying is that the problem was that the auditors (reviewers) were from the same consulting company (scientific community) as the consultants (collaborators)</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Penrose</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/03/09/enron-trial-in-the-news/#comment-45783</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Penrose]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=575#comment-45783</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Of course, the fact that the Auditing company and the Financial Consulting company were one in the same did not help. It was a big mistake to change the law that had previously required independent auditors.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, the fact that the Auditing company and the Financial Consulting company were one in the same did not help. It was a big mistake to change the law that had previously required independent auditors.</p>
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