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	<title>Comments on: Thacker&#8217;s &#8220;Sources&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2006/04/13/thackers-sources/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/04/13/thackers-sources/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Trenberth&#8217;s Bile</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/04/13/thackers-sources/#comment-252197</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Trenberth&#8217;s Bile]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jan 2011 14:55:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=629#comment-252197</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Trenberth. In 2005, Trenberth was interviewed by Paul Thacker of ES&amp;T about the MM articles (discussed here) where he stated: There have been several examples of people who have come into the field of [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Trenberth. In 2005, Trenberth was interviewed by Paul Thacker of ES&amp;T about the MM articles (discussed here) where he stated: There have been several examples of people who have come into the field of [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Trenberth’s Bile &#124; Another Newyork Times</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/04/13/thackers-sources/#comment-252159</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Trenberth’s Bile &#124; Another Newyork Times]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jan 2011 06:54:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=629#comment-252159</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Trenberth. In 2005, Trenberth was interviewed by Paul Thacker of ES&amp;T about the MM articles (discussed here) where he stated: There have been several examples of people who have come into the field of [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Trenberth. In 2005, Trenberth was interviewed by Paul Thacker of ES&amp;T about the MM articles (discussed here) where he stated: There have been several examples of people who have come into the field of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Trenberth&#8217;s Bile &#171; Climate Audit</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/04/13/thackers-sources/#comment-252132</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Trenberth&#8217;s Bile &#171; Climate Audit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jan 2011 00:54:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=629#comment-252132</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Trenberth. In 2005, Trenberth was interviewed by Paul Thacker of ES&amp;T about the MM articles (discussed here) where he stated: There have been several examples of people who have come into the field of [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Trenberth. In 2005, Trenberth was interviewed by Paul Thacker of ES&amp;T about the MM articles (discussed here) where he stated: There have been several examples of people who have come into the field of [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: BKC</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/04/13/thackers-sources/#comment-48645</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BKC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Sep 2006 16:01:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=629#comment-48645</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re. 50

See &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=626#comments&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; for some discussion of Bob Carter&#039;s claims (in the comments).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re. 50</p>
<p>See <a href="http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=626#comments" rel="nofollow">here</a> for some discussion of Bob Carter&#8217;s claims (in the comments).</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: bender</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/04/13/thackers-sources/#comment-48644</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bender]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Sep 2006 15:23:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=629#comment-48644</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Paul, you&#039;re right - there are alot of problem &quot;analyses&quot; out there that could stand debunking. But if I understand Steve M&#039;s interests, it&#039;s the multiproxy reconstructions that he really wants to focus on in this blog.

From my own perspective, I think there is going to be a huge pile of cherry-picked (non-scientific) junk analysis emerging in the coming decades, and it would be a mistake to devote much effort to this hydra. The warmers will do their thing, the coolers theirs.

As for your particular beef, I see the current wave of cooler arguments not as a counter-cultural phenomenon but as a reactionary backlash. The &quot;analyses&quot; they present are not rational science, but a rhetorical device intended as a counterpunch to the statistically untenable arguments that the current warming trend is &quot;unprecedented&quot; for 1000 years. (It&#039;s unprecedented only since the LIA ~AD1600, which everyone agrees with, even the coolest coolers.) As a scientific argument, the cooler case is statistically invalid. As a rhetorical counter-punch ... well, the warmers probably deserve it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul, you&#8217;re right &#8211; there are alot of problem &#8220;analyses&#8221; out there that could stand debunking. But if I understand Steve M&#8217;s interests, it&#8217;s the multiproxy reconstructions that he really wants to focus on in this blog.</p>
<p>From my own perspective, I think there is going to be a huge pile of cherry-picked (non-scientific) junk analysis emerging in the coming decades, and it would be a mistake to devote much effort to this hydra. The warmers will do their thing, the coolers theirs.</p>
<p>As for your particular beef, I see the current wave of cooler arguments not as a counter-cultural phenomenon but as a reactionary backlash. The &#8220;analyses&#8221; they present are not rational science, but a rhetorical device intended as a counterpunch to the statistically untenable arguments that the current warming trend is &#8220;unprecedented&#8221; for 1000 years. (It&#8217;s unprecedented only since the LIA ~AD1600, which everyone agrees with, even the coolest coolers.) As a scientific argument, the cooler case is statistically invalid. As a rhetorical counter-punch &#8230; well, the warmers probably deserve it.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/04/13/thackers-sources/#comment-48643</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Sep 2006 14:59:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=629#comment-48643</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Steve,

I&#039;m interested in your diligence and perseverance on this task of uncovering statistical boobies made by climatologists out in the field. I&#039;m also wondering as well why you haven&#039;t taken the time to apply the same levels of criticism and in depth study towards claims in the media made by Bob Carter. Claims that global warming stopped in 1998. You must be aware that Bob specifically chose 1998 because it was the year of that epic El Nino and 1998 has a particularly high temperature record, so when all other years are compared to it they appear cooler. You must be able to see the obvious game being played here, and you should surely be aware that the standard method is to take a 30 average from the temperature record as the zero standard to avoid the issue of being forced to manually find a representative year. Bob&#039;s method could be exploited in either direction, and so surely he&#039;s inviolation of statistical method. Is 1998 a representative year in the previous 30 years, clearly not. Perhaps you&#039;d like to publish something on your website upon this subject. I can see in your responses to  Trenberth that you value a balanced approach and that your publication&#039;s aims are merely to correct statistical errors. Surely then, following this approach you could spend some time to correct Bob Carter&#039;s claims as it seems your aims are to correct errors of the type displayed in Bob&#039;s comment.

Regards

Paul]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Steve,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m interested in your diligence and perseverance on this task of uncovering statistical boobies made by climatologists out in the field. I&#8217;m also wondering as well why you haven&#8217;t taken the time to apply the same levels of criticism and in depth study towards claims in the media made by Bob Carter. Claims that global warming stopped in 1998. You must be aware that Bob specifically chose 1998 because it was the year of that epic El Nino and 1998 has a particularly high temperature record, so when all other years are compared to it they appear cooler. You must be able to see the obvious game being played here, and you should surely be aware that the standard method is to take a 30 average from the temperature record as the zero standard to avoid the issue of being forced to manually find a representative year. Bob&#8217;s method could be exploited in either direction, and so surely he&#8217;s inviolation of statistical method. Is 1998 a representative year in the previous 30 years, clearly not. Perhaps you&#8217;d like to publish something on your website upon this subject. I can see in your responses to  Trenberth that you value a balanced approach and that your publication&#8217;s aims are merely to correct statistical errors. Surely then, following this approach you could spend some time to correct Bob Carter&#8217;s claims as it seems your aims are to correct errors of the type displayed in Bob&#8217;s comment.</p>
<p>Regards</p>
<p>Paul</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/04/13/thackers-sources/#comment-48642</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Apr 2006 16:26:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=629#comment-48642</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Keep in mind, most astronomical discoveries are made by rank amatuers.

Mark]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keep in mind, most astronomical discoveries are made by rank amatuers.</p>
<p>Mark</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Norman</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/04/13/thackers-sources/#comment-48641</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeff Norman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Apr 2006 16:18:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=629#comment-48641</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re #45 However, rote memorization, would be useful for remembering exact quotes and the context in which they were used.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #45 However, rote memorization, would be useful for remembering exact quotes and the context in which they were used.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Chris Chittleborough</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/04/13/thackers-sources/#comment-48640</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris Chittleborough]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Apr 2006 00:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=629#comment-48640</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#45: There is at least one hard science that requires massive amounts of memorization: Organic Chemistry. (But you also have to understand some quite non-trivial concepts ...)

#42: Thanks for a good laugh!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#45: There is at least one hard science that requires massive amounts of memorization: Organic Chemistry. (But you also have to understand some quite non-trivial concepts &#8230;)</p>
<p>#42: Thanks for a good laugh!</p>
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		<title>By: jae</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/04/13/thackers-sources/#comment-48639</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jae]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Apr 2006 15:54:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=629#comment-48639</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;One of the retorts that used to spring to my mind when people criticized us for being &quot;amateurs&quot; -although statistically I regard the Hockey Team as amateurs - was this: if we found this many mistakes, can you imagine how many mistakes a &quot;real&quot; expert would find? &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Steve:  I suspect that you now have as much expertise in proxy studies as anyone in the world.  You don&#039;t have the coursework or degrees, but you certainly have the knowledge.  You are no amateur, thats for sure!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>One of the retorts that used to spring to my mind when people criticized us for being &#8220;amateurs&#8221; -although statistically I regard the Hockey Team as amateurs &#8211; was this: if we found this many mistakes, can you imagine how many mistakes a &#8220;real&#8221; expert would find? </p></blockquote>
<p>Steve:  I suspect that you now have as much expertise in proxy studies as anyone in the world.  You don&#8217;t have the coursework or degrees, but you certainly have the knowledge.  You are no amateur, thats for sure!</p>
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