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	<title>Comments on: Esper Methodology</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2006/05/11/esper-methodology/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/05/11/esper-methodology/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
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		<title>By: Hey! Whassup Ya-mal-feasant pseudo-scientists? &#171; Tallbloke&#039;s Talkshop</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/05/11/esper-methodology/#comment-333832</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hey! Whassup Ya-mal-feasant pseudo-scientists? &#171; Tallbloke&#039;s Talkshop]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 10:22:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=667#comment-333832</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] - Esper et al 2003- [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8211; Esper et al 2003- [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Gerald Machnee</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/05/11/esper-methodology/#comment-50492</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gerald Machnee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 May 2006 17:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=667#comment-50492</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Correction to #18 - &quot;people like Steve McIntyre&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correction to #18 &#8211; &#8220;people like Steve McIntyre&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Gerald Machnee</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/05/11/esper-methodology/#comment-50491</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gerald Machnee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 May 2006 17:34:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=667#comment-50491</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The only way this problem will get addressed is by people like Steve hammering away. A lot of publicity helps. That is also why some bad cops get charged.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only way this problem will get addressed is by people like Steve hammering away. A lot of publicity helps. That is also why some bad cops get charged.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/05/11/esper-methodology/#comment-50490</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 May 2006 13:17:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=667#comment-50490</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#16. I don&#039;t agree with that. There are a lot of differences between the cops and the gangs. However, they protect their own and their code all too often seems to include the toleration of bad apples.

Here&#039;s an obvious comparison to climate scientists. No climate scientist or learned institution objected when Mann said that he would not be &quot;intimidated&quot; into disclosing his algorithm, but there was outrage from the learned instituions when civilians from the Barton Committee asked for the information. As someone who&#039;s pushed at both systems, I don&#039;t see a speck of difference in the behavior of the institutions on this class of issue - in both cases, &quot;guilds&quot; set highest priority on protecting their own. It&#039;s humna nature. But the interest of the National Academy of Sciences in dealing with this type of issue is approximately as serious as that of the Toronto Police in dealing with a rogue cop - none.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#16. I don&#8217;t agree with that. There are a lot of differences between the cops and the gangs. However, they protect their own and their code all too often seems to include the toleration of bad apples.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s an obvious comparison to climate scientists. No climate scientist or learned institution objected when Mann said that he would not be &#8220;intimidated&#8221; into disclosing his algorithm, but there was outrage from the learned instituions when civilians from the Barton Committee asked for the information. As someone who&#8217;s pushed at both systems, I don&#8217;t see a speck of difference in the behavior of the institutions on this class of issue &#8211; in both cases, &#8220;guilds&#8221; set highest priority on protecting their own. It&#8217;s humna nature. But the interest of the National Academy of Sciences in dealing with this type of issue is approximately as serious as that of the Toronto Police in dealing with a rogue cop &#8211; none.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/05/11/esper-methodology/#comment-50489</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gary]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 May 2006 12:57:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=667#comment-50489</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;If I knew how to write fiction, it would make a great Ross MacDonald type novel.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Maybe the IPCC can help you.

Seriously, this sort of thing is all too common and it seems the only difference between the good and bad guys is that one side has badges. In the US the &quot;Policeman&#039;s Bill of Rights&quot; gags the release of information and a lot of stuff stays hidden. OTH, victim&#039;s advocacy groups always play the conspiracy card in the media and make the authorities even more closed-mouth.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If I knew how to write fiction, it would make a great Ross MacDonald type novel.</p></blockquote>
<p>Maybe the IPCC can help you.</p>
<p>Seriously, this sort of thing is all too common and it seems the only difference between the good and bad guys is that one side has badges. In the US the &#8220;Policeman&#8217;s Bill of Rights&#8221; gags the release of information and a lot of stuff stays hidden. OTH, victim&#8217;s advocacy groups always play the conspiracy card in the media and make the authorities even more closed-mouth.</p>
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		<title>By: ET SidViscous</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/05/11/esper-methodology/#comment-50488</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ET SidViscous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 May 2006 00:00:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=667#comment-50488</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sad when you can&#039;t trust the cops.

But if that kind of thing interests you Steve M, Might I recomend a book &quot;The Brothers Bulger&quot; By Howie Carr. Howie is a local newspaper/radio/ex-TV guy.

You wan&#039;t to talk strange.

Whitey was the Brother of Billy, Whitey was high up in the local organized Crime ring, and Billy was high up in the State legislature. And they pretty blatantly took care of each-other.

Stand up to the Politician and the Mobster gives you a warning. Go after the Mobster and the Pol gives you a warning.

Ties in with law enforcement too. There are more than a few local cops and FBI types in Jail or fired for their involvement.

The only reason Whitey is on the run instead of jail is that the local FBI office gave Whitey a call when they were on the way to arrest him. At least one FBI agent is in jail for whacking a guy for Whitey.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sad when you can&#8217;t trust the cops.</p>
<p>But if that kind of thing interests you Steve M, Might I recomend a book &#8220;The Brothers Bulger&#8221; By Howie Carr. Howie is a local newspaper/radio/ex-TV guy.</p>
<p>You wan&#8217;t to talk strange.</p>
<p>Whitey was the Brother of Billy, Whitey was high up in the local organized Crime ring, and Billy was high up in the State legislature. And they pretty blatantly took care of each-other.</p>
<p>Stand up to the Politician and the Mobster gives you a warning. Go after the Mobster and the Pol gives you a warning.</p>
<p>Ties in with law enforcement too. There are more than a few local cops and FBI types in Jail or fired for their involvement.</p>
<p>The only reason Whitey is on the run instead of jail is that the local FBI office gave Whitey a call when they were on the way to arrest him. At least one FBI agent is in jail for whacking a guy for Whitey.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/05/11/esper-methodology/#comment-50487</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 May 2006 23:40:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=667#comment-50487</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I could have pursued, but the cop was arrested and there are inquiries going on so there wouldn&#039;t be much point.  A judge was appointed who I&#039;ve literally known all my life as he was one of my father&#039;s oldest friends. There was a change of municipal government in Toronto and the police chief got replaced. One of our close friends became civilian chair of the Polic Services Board, although that didn&#039;t have a lot of stroke against the police. If I weren&#039;t busy with other things, I might have pursued it. I also wanted my son to get on with things and not get involved with litigation. It&#039;s fine for me because I understand it, but it&#039;s easy to get eaten up by it.

In this case, it was the back story that was interesting and intrigued me and sounded like a Ross MacDonald novel. The detective&#039;s father had formerly been a police chief in Toronto. He had resigned about 6 months after a strange inquiry -  the Junger Inquiry- about 14 years ago. The son&#039;s name turned up tangentially as being connected with a male prostitution ring being run by the police. In that case, the police had destroyed evidence in their deal with Junger. The policeman who was responsible for investigating my complaint was mentioned in the Junger Inquiry and was disciplined in it.  It&#039;s easy to picture circumstances where a reputable father got involved in a mess of his son&#039;s making and then walked the plank. I once sat at lunch with a book agent and for some reason got into this story. If I knew how to write fiction, it would make a great Ross MacDonald type novel.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I could have pursued, but the cop was arrested and there are inquiries going on so there wouldn&#8217;t be much point.  A judge was appointed who I&#8217;ve literally known all my life as he was one of my father&#8217;s oldest friends. There was a change of municipal government in Toronto and the police chief got replaced. One of our close friends became civilian chair of the Polic Services Board, although that didn&#8217;t have a lot of stroke against the police. If I weren&#8217;t busy with other things, I might have pursued it. I also wanted my son to get on with things and not get involved with litigation. It&#8217;s fine for me because I understand it, but it&#8217;s easy to get eaten up by it.</p>
<p>In this case, it was the back story that was interesting and intrigued me and sounded like a Ross MacDonald novel. The detective&#8217;s father had formerly been a police chief in Toronto. He had resigned about 6 months after a strange inquiry &#8211;  the Junger Inquiry- about 14 years ago. The son&#8217;s name turned up tangentially as being connected with a male prostitution ring being run by the police. In that case, the police had destroyed evidence in their deal with Junger. The policeman who was responsible for investigating my complaint was mentioned in the Junger Inquiry and was disciplined in it.  It&#8217;s easy to picture circumstances where a reputable father got involved in a mess of his son&#8217;s making and then walked the plank. I once sat at lunch with a book agent and for some reason got into this story. If I knew how to write fiction, it would make a great Ross MacDonald type novel.</p>
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		<title>By: ET SidViscous</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/05/11/esper-methodology/#comment-50486</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ET SidViscous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 May 2006 23:22:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=667#comment-50486</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wildy off topic.

I don&#039;t know about the legal system in Canada, but I assume at this level it is simlar to the U.S. in that it&#039;s all derived from English common law. But once you run into that kind of a thing what you want to do is go over their heads. You go to a court, or a higher court, and apply for a writ of mandamus.

Of course that&#039;s gonna cost you money (legal fees).

And I don&#039;t say it will get anything done, for the most part it&#039;s probably a waste of time,  but between that and a press conference you might get some movement.

Wish I had the cash, I would do so to the INS myself.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wildy off topic.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know about the legal system in Canada, but I assume at this level it is simlar to the U.S. in that it&#8217;s all derived from English common law. But once you run into that kind of a thing what you want to do is go over their heads. You go to a court, or a higher court, and apply for a writ of mandamus.</p>
<p>Of course that&#8217;s gonna cost you money (legal fees).</p>
<p>And I don&#8217;t say it will get anything done, for the most part it&#8217;s probably a waste of time,  but between that and a press conference you might get some movement.</p>
<p>Wish I had the cash, I would do so to the INS myself.</p>
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		<title>By: jae</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/05/11/esper-methodology/#comment-50485</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jae]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 May 2006 23:11:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=667#comment-50485</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Steve:  I had the same sort of problem with the police in Tacoma, Washington a number of years ago.  My son was nearly killed by a gang.  There were witnesses who agreed to testify, but the police did nothing.  I believe they were afraid of the gang.  A lawyer warned us that we would be harassed by the police if we tried to pursue the matter any further. Sadly, there&#039;s a lot of this kind of thing in the world.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve:  I had the same sort of problem with the police in Tacoma, Washington a number of years ago.  My son was nearly killed by a gang.  There were witnesses who agreed to testify, but the police did nothing.  I believe they were afraid of the gang.  A lawyer warned us that we would be harassed by the police if we tried to pursue the matter any further. Sadly, there&#8217;s a lot of this kind of thing in the world.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/05/11/esper-methodology/#comment-50484</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 May 2006 23:01:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=667#comment-50484</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wish you hadn&#039;t mentioned cops. We have problems with cops in Toronto as in many other places. One of my sons got stomped in the head by bouncers in front of witnesses and could have been killed. He had internal fractures in his skull. The cops were flagged down within 10 seconds. They didn&#039;t take the names of  the bouncers and  didn&#039;t talk to witnesses. One witness, an American accountant, was so upset that he insisted on making a statement. He gave his card to my son&#039;s grilfriend. I talked to him the next day when I realized how serious the injuries were.

Later I found out that the police did not even open an incident report on the assault. Then they said that they couldn&#039;t locate any witnesses. They said that they couldn&#039;t locate the witness statement from the American accountant. At the start, I had no reason to think that anything untoward was going on, but after a while, it was too weird. So I called the accountant and got a description of the detective and asked the Division to locate him. The cops got enraged at me for doing that and threatened to charge me with obstruction of justice. Like I&#039;m easily intimidated.

I filed a formal complaint and got stonewalled. I appealed to review boards. Even with evidence that a witness statement had been destroyed, no one seemed to care. It&#039;s almost like climate science.

I did find the name of the plainclothes detective through the complaint process. It was front page news in Toronto in 2004 when this very detective was charged for corruption some 4 years after my complaint.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish you hadn&#8217;t mentioned cops. We have problems with cops in Toronto as in many other places. One of my sons got stomped in the head by bouncers in front of witnesses and could have been killed. He had internal fractures in his skull. The cops were flagged down within 10 seconds. They didn&#8217;t take the names of  the bouncers and  didn&#8217;t talk to witnesses. One witness, an American accountant, was so upset that he insisted on making a statement. He gave his card to my son&#8217;s grilfriend. I talked to him the next day when I realized how serious the injuries were.</p>
<p>Later I found out that the police did not even open an incident report on the assault. Then they said that they couldn&#8217;t locate any witnesses. They said that they couldn&#8217;t locate the witness statement from the American accountant. At the start, I had no reason to think that anything untoward was going on, but after a while, it was too weird. So I called the accountant and got a description of the detective and asked the Division to locate him. The cops got enraged at me for doing that and threatened to charge me with obstruction of justice. Like I&#8217;m easily intimidated.</p>
<p>I filed a formal complaint and got stonewalled. I appealed to review boards. Even with evidence that a witness statement had been destroyed, no one seemed to care. It&#8217;s almost like climate science.</p>
<p>I did find the name of the plainclothes detective through the complaint process. It was front page news in Toronto in 2004 when this very detective was charged for corruption some 4 years after my complaint.</p>
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