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	<title>Comments on: Greenland</title>
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	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/06/03/greenland/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
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		<title>By: hellen</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/06/03/greenland/#comment-52340</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[hellen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Oct 2006 03:16:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[where can you find the highs and lows of the temperature in Greenland? (school project)please I need help I am computer intolerant.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>where can you find the highs and lows of the temperature in Greenland? (school project)please I need help I am computer intolerant.</p>
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		<title>By: Jean S</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/06/03/greenland/#comment-52339</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jean S]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Aug 2006 11:28:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=695#comment-52339</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[re #10: There is another interesting article (with Jones &amp; Briffa as co-authors!):
Vinther, B. M.; Andersen, K. K.; Jones, P. D.; Briffa, K. R.; Cappelen, J.,
Extending Greenland temperature records into the late eighteenth century,
J. Geophys. Res., Vol. 111, No. D11, D11105
doi:10.1029/2005JD006810

Seems to me that if there is something one wants to call &quot;unprecedented in recent Greenland history&quot;
it is the shift of 1920&#039;s and 1930&#039;s. I wonder how polar bears survived that period ;)

PDF and data available &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/greenland/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.

Abstract:
&lt;blockquote&gt;At present, continuous instrumental temperature records for Greenland reach back to the late nineteenth century at a few sites. Combining early observational records from locations along the south and west coasts, it has been possible to extend the overall record back to the year 1784. The new extended Greenland temperature record is 9% incomplete. There are, however, sufficient new data (an additional 74 complete winters and 52 complete summers) to provide a valuable indication of late eighteenth century and nineteenth century seasonal trends. Comparison of the previously published records with additional observational series digitized from Danish Meteorological Institute Yearbooks has also revealed inhomogeneities in some of the existing twentieth century temperature records. These problems have been eliminated in the new extended Greenland temperature record. A long homogeneous west Greenland instrumental temperature record is of great value for the interpretation of the growing number of Greenland ice core records. A first comparison of the new record with highly resolved Greenland ice core data is presented. Correlations between west Greenland winter temperatures and the ice core winter season proxy are found to be r = 0.67 and r = 0.60 for the periods 1785--1872 and 1873--1970, respectively.&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re #10: There is another interesting article (with Jones &amp; Briffa as co-authors!):<br />
Vinther, B. M.; Andersen, K. K.; Jones, P. D.; Briffa, K. R.; Cappelen, J.,<br />
Extending Greenland temperature records into the late eighteenth century,<br />
J. Geophys. Res., Vol. 111, No. D11, D11105<br />
doi:10.1029/2005JD006810</p>
<p>Seems to me that if there is something one wants to call &#8220;unprecedented in recent Greenland history&#8221;<br />
it is the shift of 1920&#8242;s and 1930&#8242;s. I wonder how polar bears survived that period <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>PDF and data available <a href="http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/greenland/" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
<p>Abstract:</p>
<blockquote><p>At present, continuous instrumental temperature records for Greenland reach back to the late nineteenth century at a few sites. Combining early observational records from locations along the south and west coasts, it has been possible to extend the overall record back to the year 1784. The new extended Greenland temperature record is 9% incomplete. There are, however, sufficient new data (an additional 74 complete winters and 52 complete summers) to provide a valuable indication of late eighteenth century and nineteenth century seasonal trends. Comparison of the previously published records with additional observational series digitized from Danish Meteorological Institute Yearbooks has also revealed inhomogeneities in some of the existing twentieth century temperature records. These problems have been eliminated in the new extended Greenland temperature record. A long homogeneous west Greenland instrumental temperature record is of great value for the interpretation of the growing number of Greenland ice core records. A first comparison of the new record with highly resolved Greenland ice core data is presented. Correlations between west Greenland winter temperatures and the ice core winter season proxy are found to be r = 0.67 and r = 0.60 for the periods 1785&#8211;1872 and 1873&#8211;1970, respectively.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Geoff</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/06/03/greenland/#comment-52338</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Geoff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jun 2006 00:41:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=695#comment-52338</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[sorry, I&#039;ll try again:

Reference: Chylek, P., M. K. Dubey, and G. Lesins (2006), Greenland warming of 1920--1930 and 1995--2005, Geophys. Res. Lett., 33, L11707, doi:10.1029/2006GL026510 &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2006/2006GL026510.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; here&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sorry, I&#8217;ll try again:</p>
<p>Reference: Chylek, P., M. K. Dubey, and G. Lesins (2006), Greenland warming of 1920&#8211;1930 and 1995&#8211;2005, Geophys. Res. Lett., 33, L11707, doi:10.1029/2006GL026510 <a href="http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2006/2006GL026510.shtml" rel="nofollow"> here</a></p>
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		<title>By: Geoff</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/06/03/greenland/#comment-52337</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Geoff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jun 2006 13:43:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=695#comment-52337</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting to note the article by Petr Chylek just out in GRL. The abstract reads:

&quot;We provide an analysis of Greenland temperature records to compare the current (1995--2005) warming period with the previous (1920--1930) Greenland warming. We find that the current Greenland warming is not unprecedented in recent Greenland history. Temperature increases in the two warming periods are of a similar magnitude, however, the rate of warming in 1920--1930 was about 50% higher than that in 1995--2005&quot;.

They studied the two periods to see if the warming shown in 1995-2005 was unprecedented, and found there was &quot;no statistically significant difference between the average temperature from the 1905 to 1955 period and 1995 to 2005 period&quot;. Statistics buffs will want to check their z-scores.

In their summation, they state: &quot; Although there has been a considerable temperature increase during the last decade (1995 to 2005) a similar increase and at a faster rate occurred during the early part of the 20th century (1920 to 1930) when carbon dioxide or other greenhouse gases could not be a cause. The Greenland warming of 1920 to 1930 demonstrates that a high concentration of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases is not a necessary condition for period of warming to arise. The observed 1995--2005 temperature increase seems to be within a natural variability of Greenland climate&#039;.

Finally: &quot; To summarize, we find no direct evidence to support the claims that the Greenland ice sheet is melting due to increased temperature caused by increased atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide. The rate of warming from 1995 to 2005 was in fact lower than the warming that occurred from 1920 to 1930. The temperature trend during the next ten years may be a decisive factor in a possible detection of an anthropogenic part of climate signal over area of the Greenland ice sheet&quot;.

Reference: Chylek, P., M. K. Dubey, and G. Lesins (2006), Greenland warming of 1920--1930 and 1995--2005, Geophys. Res. Lett., 33, L11707, doi:10.1029/2006GL026510, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.agu.org/journals/gl/gl0611/2006GL026510/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; here&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting to note the article by Petr Chylek just out in GRL. The abstract reads:</p>
<p>&#8220;We provide an analysis of Greenland temperature records to compare the current (1995&#8211;2005) warming period with the previous (1920&#8211;1930) Greenland warming. We find that the current Greenland warming is not unprecedented in recent Greenland history. Temperature increases in the two warming periods are of a similar magnitude, however, the rate of warming in 1920&#8211;1930 was about 50% higher than that in 1995&#8211;2005&#8243;.</p>
<p>They studied the two periods to see if the warming shown in 1995-2005 was unprecedented, and found there was &#8220;no statistically significant difference between the average temperature from the 1905 to 1955 period and 1995 to 2005 period&#8221;. Statistics buffs will want to check their z-scores.</p>
<p>In their summation, they state: &#8221; Although there has been a considerable temperature increase during the last decade (1995 to 2005) a similar increase and at a faster rate occurred during the early part of the 20th century (1920 to 1930) when carbon dioxide or other greenhouse gases could not be a cause. The Greenland warming of 1920 to 1930 demonstrates that a high concentration of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases is not a necessary condition for period of warming to arise. The observed 1995&#8211;2005 temperature increase seems to be within a natural variability of Greenland climate&#8217;.</p>
<p>Finally: &#8221; To summarize, we find no direct evidence to support the claims that the Greenland ice sheet is melting due to increased temperature caused by increased atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide. The rate of warming from 1995 to 2005 was in fact lower than the warming that occurred from 1920 to 1930. The temperature trend during the next ten years may be a decisive factor in a possible detection of an anthropogenic part of climate signal over area of the Greenland ice sheet&#8221;.</p>
<p>Reference: Chylek, P., M. K. Dubey, and G. Lesins (2006), Greenland warming of 1920&#8211;1930 and 1995&#8211;2005, Geophys. Res. Lett., 33, L11707, doi:10.1029/2006GL026510, <a href="http://www.agu.org/journals/gl/gl0611/2006GL026510/" rel="nofollow"> here</a></p>
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		<title>By: Steve Sadlov</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/06/03/greenland/#comment-52336</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Sadlov]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jun 2006 16:24:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=695#comment-52336</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would think that diurnal, day to day and annual temperature variations in the inland areas of Greenland would exceed those along the coasts. Of course the ice mass in the interior would sink heat and somewhat moderate it, but at the end of the day, there is more outbound IR in the inland area. For example, mere innate relative humdity is lower there. That part of the world also gets lots of advection fog and stratus - I&#039;d have to believe the interior to be above it. And then, and then ... ;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would think that diurnal, day to day and annual temperature variations in the inland areas of Greenland would exceed those along the coasts. Of course the ice mass in the interior would sink heat and somewhat moderate it, but at the end of the day, there is more outbound IR in the inland area. For example, mere innate relative humdity is lower there. That part of the world also gets lots of advection fog and stratus &#8211; I&#8217;d have to believe the interior to be above it. And then, and then &#8230; <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: maksimovich</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/06/03/greenland/#comment-52335</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[maksimovich]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jun 2006 08:54:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=695#comment-52335</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH LETTERS, VOL. 27, NO. 5, PAGES 735-738, MARCH 1, 2000
Andreas Inderm¨uhle, Eric Monnin, Bernhard Stauer, Thomas F. Stocker]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH LETTERS, VOL. 27, NO. 5, PAGES 735-738, MARCH 1, 2000<br />
Andreas Inderm¨uhle, Eric Monnin, Bernhard Stauer, Thomas F. Stocker</p>
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		<title>By: Andre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/06/03/greenland/#comment-52334</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jun 2006 15:49:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=695#comment-52334</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great tip, Steve thanks, although he seems to specialize in oceanography. http://puddle.mit.edu/~cwunsch/

Re #4. Attempts to assess and repair the isotope problems have been done by Jeffrey Severinghaus, Richard Alley, Jean Jouzel, Georg Hoffmann et al (google names) by crosschecking the behavior of several other isotopes 40AR, 15N etc. There are also borehole temperature with Dye-3 clearly showing the Medieval Warm period and the Little ice Age

See:
http://www.ipsl.jussieu.fr/GLACIO/hoffmann/Pictures/RealTempGRIPDYE3.jpg

But many things remain suppositions that could be wrong when other elements are not taken into accoung.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great tip, Steve thanks, although he seems to specialize in oceanography. <a href="http://puddle.mit.edu/~cwunsch/" rel="nofollow">http://puddle.mit.edu/~cwunsch/</a></p>
<p>Re #4. Attempts to assess and repair the isotope problems have been done by Jeffrey Severinghaus, Richard Alley, Jean Jouzel, Georg Hoffmann et al (google names) by crosschecking the behavior of several other isotopes 40AR, 15N etc. There are also borehole temperature with Dye-3 clearly showing the Medieval Warm period and the Little ice Age</p>
<p>See:<br />
<a href="http://www.ipsl.jussieu.fr/GLACIO/hoffmann/Pictures/RealTempGRIPDYE3.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://www.ipsl.jussieu.fr/GLACIO/hoffmann/Pictures/RealTempGRIPDYE3.jpg</a></p>
<p>But many things remain suppositions that could be wrong when other elements are not taken into accoung.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/06/03/greenland/#comment-52333</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jun 2006 15:10:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=695#comment-52333</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Carl Wunsch has written convincingly about Greenland isotopes. As far as I&#039;m concerned, Wunsch is one of the few scientists in the field whose work you can totally rely on.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carl Wunsch has written convincingly about Greenland isotopes. As far as I&#8217;m concerned, Wunsch is one of the few scientists in the field whose work you can totally rely on.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Linsay</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/06/03/greenland/#comment-52332</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Linsay]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jun 2006 14:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=695#comment-52332</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#3 Thanks

&lt;blockquote&gt;A dry summer looks actually as a cold year, as there are not enough &quot;warm&quot; isotopes to balance.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
i.e., drought and cold are indistinguishable.

So we do have a situation like the tree rings, though possibly less complicated.  There are multiple factors that contribute to the concentration and unless all of them are known simultaneously d18O is not going to be a good thermometer.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#3 Thanks</p>
<blockquote><p>A dry summer looks actually as a cold year, as there are not enough &#8220;warm&#8221; isotopes to balance.</p></blockquote>
<p>i.e., drought and cold are indistinguishable.</p>
<p>So we do have a situation like the tree rings, though possibly less complicated.  There are multiple factors that contribute to the concentration and unless all of them are known simultaneously d18O is not going to be a good thermometer.</p>
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		<title>By: Jean S</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/06/03/greenland/#comment-52331</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jean S]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jun 2006 13:37:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=695#comment-52331</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In the case of Greenland (and the rest of Denmark), there is no need to rely only on HadCRU2. The Danish Mateorological Institute (DMI) has kindly published a lot of their data, see &lt;a&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; (especially reports 05-05, 06-08, and 06-10). In general, those interested in arctic climate should check, addition to previously mentioned &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.smhi.se/hfa_coord/nordklim/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;NordKlim&lt;/a&gt;, also &lt;a href=&quot;http://projects.met.no/~narp/data_index.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;NARP Climate Dataset&lt;/a&gt; (see also &lt;a href=&quot;http://thule.oulu.fi/narp/index.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;).

Steve, I think you might me interested in &lt;a href=&quot;http://thule.oulu.fi/narp/Projects/a_natural/Isaksson.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this project&lt;/a&gt;; some related publications can be downloaded from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ulapland.fi/home/hkunta/jmoore/johnpage.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; (see especially &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ulapland.fi/home/hkunta/jmoore/pdfs/isakssonholocene.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Isaksson et al (2005)&lt;/a&gt;).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the case of Greenland (and the rest of Denmark), there is no need to rely only on HadCRU2. The Danish Mateorological Institute (DMI) has kindly published a lot of their data, see <a>here</a> (especially reports 05-05, 06-08, and 06-10). In general, those interested in arctic climate should check, addition to previously mentioned <a href="http://www.smhi.se/hfa_coord/nordklim/" rel="nofollow">NordKlim</a>, also <a href="http://projects.met.no/~narp/data_index.html" rel="nofollow">NARP Climate Dataset</a> (see also <a href="http://thule.oulu.fi/narp/index.htm" rel="nofollow">here</a>).</p>
<p>Steve, I think you might me interested in <a href="http://thule.oulu.fi/narp/Projects/a_natural/Isaksson.htm" rel="nofollow">this project</a>; some related publications can be downloaded from <a href="http://www.ulapland.fi/home/hkunta/jmoore/johnpage.htm" rel="nofollow">here</a> (see especially <a href="http://www.ulapland.fi/home/hkunta/jmoore/pdfs/isakssonholocene.pdf" rel="nofollow">Isaksson et al (2005)</a>).</p>
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