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	<title>Comments on: Benchmarking from VZ Pseudoproxies</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2006/07/04/benchmarking-from-vz-pseudoproxies/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/07/04/benchmarking-from-vz-pseudoproxies/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 20 Jun 2013 02:13:38 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Pseudoproxies in Mann et al 2007 &#171; Climate Audit</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/07/04/benchmarking-from-vz-pseudoproxies/#comment-330131</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pseudoproxies in Mann et al 2007 &#171; Climate Audit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Mar 2012 22:55:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=733#comment-330131</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Mann et al 2007, he only considers results from RegEM (TTLS) under different noise scenarios. In Benchmarking from VZ Proxies, I tested the effect of a broader range of methods on attenuation of low frequency response, [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Mann et al 2007, he only considers results from RegEM (TTLS) under different noise scenarios. In Benchmarking from VZ Proxies, I tested the effect of a broader range of methods on attenuation of low frequency response, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Smith on PC Retention &#171; Climate Audit</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/07/04/benchmarking-from-vz-pseudoproxies/#comment-285360</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Smith on PC Retention &#171; Climate Audit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jun 2011 17:39:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=733#comment-285360</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] even with relatively simple pseudoproxies, it is a very poor method. (There&#8217;s a 2006 CA post on these issues that IMO is a very good [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] even with relatively simple pseudoproxies, it is a very poor method. (There&#8217;s a 2006 CA post on these issues that IMO is a very good [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Regression and Varimax Rotation &#171; Climate Audit</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/07/04/benchmarking-from-vz-pseudoproxies/#comment-256748</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Regression and Varimax Rotation &#171; Climate Audit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Feb 2011 22:46:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=733#comment-256748</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] my post a year ago on VZ pseudoproxies, if tree ring proxies are believed to be signal plus low-order noise (I [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] my post a year ago on VZ pseudoproxies, if tree ring proxies are believed to be signal plus low-order noise (I [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: More on &#34;Naturally Orthogonal&#34; &#171; Climate Audit</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/07/04/benchmarking-from-vz-pseudoproxies/#comment-254479</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[More on &#34;Naturally Orthogonal&#34; &#171; Climate Audit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Feb 2011 14:49:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=733#comment-254479</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] was attenuated. I don&#8217;t think that they explored the reasons for this effect very fully and some of my notes last year on VZ pseudoproxies are relevant. I discussed OLS reconstructions, not because they were used in [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] was attenuated. I don&#8217;t think that they explored the reasons for this effect very fully and some of my notes last year on VZ pseudoproxies are relevant. I discussed OLS reconstructions, not because they were used in [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Id</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/07/04/benchmarking-from-vz-pseudoproxies/#comment-54993</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeff Id]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:16:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=733#comment-54993</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Steve,

This should be titled seven ways to make a hockey stick.  It must have taken a long time to set up seven different regression-ish methods.

Calibration by assumption of what the signal is, cannot be used in proxy literature.  If anything changed in climate science I hope it would be that.  Shock and recovery on a random network are all I see here.  I don&#039;t mind the PC1 so much but again the assumption that the result is temperature is hard to swallow.

The OLS method has the highest DOF and allows the method to make the best fit.  Of course more negative thermometers arise (very similar to the optics example in my email).  However, negative thermometers are accepted in many of the published results.  I don&#039;t understand how some negative thermometers are ok and many are not.  If we&#039;re to believe that a flipped proxy is ok, then hell we should run OLS all day long.

Of course negative weights are crap in most proxies and IMO so is scaling the same type of proxy by different levels.

It&#039;s an interesting post, I&#039;ll read it again later today.

The style of your new work has changed, as have TCO&#039;s posts.  I wonder if TCO is cooking his brain with Alcohol - really.

&lt;blockquote&gt;In this case, there is much better recovery of low-frequency information, as you can see by comparing the proportion of variance in each scale
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

After what I&#039;ve learned here, perhaps it should say there is much stronger amplification of low frequency information in contrast to better recovery. - not a criticism.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,</p>
<p>This should be titled seven ways to make a hockey stick.  It must have taken a long time to set up seven different regression-ish methods.</p>
<p>Calibration by assumption of what the signal is, cannot be used in proxy literature.  If anything changed in climate science I hope it would be that.  Shock and recovery on a random network are all I see here.  I don&#8217;t mind the PC1 so much but again the assumption that the result is temperature is hard to swallow.</p>
<p>The OLS method has the highest DOF and allows the method to make the best fit.  Of course more negative thermometers arise (very similar to the optics example in my email).  However, negative thermometers are accepted in many of the published results.  I don&#8217;t understand how some negative thermometers are ok and many are not.  If we&#8217;re to believe that a flipped proxy is ok, then hell we should run OLS all day long.</p>
<p>Of course negative weights are crap in most proxies and IMO so is scaling the same type of proxy by different levels.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s an interesting post, I&#8217;ll read it again later today.</p>
<p>The style of your new work has changed, as have TCO&#8217;s posts.  I wonder if TCO is cooking his brain with Alcohol &#8211; really.</p>
<blockquote><p>In this case, there is much better recovery of low-frequency information, as you can see by comparing the proportion of variance in each scale
</p></blockquote>
<p>After what I&#8217;ve learned here, perhaps it should say there is much stronger amplification of low frequency information in contrast to better recovery. &#8211; not a criticism.</p>
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		<title>By: webhosting</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/07/04/benchmarking-from-vz-pseudoproxies/#comment-54992</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[webhosting]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 05:00:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=733#comment-54992</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good post]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post</p>
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		<title>By: Mark T</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/07/04/benchmarking-from-vz-pseudoproxies/#comment-54991</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark T]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 06:39:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=733#comment-54991</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh, my quote was from bender in the other thread, in which he was referring to this thread, but I felt my comment was more appropriate here.

Mark]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, my quote was from bender in the other thread, in which he was referring to this thread, but I felt my comment was more appropriate here.</p>
<p>Mark</p>
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		<title>By: Mark T</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/07/04/benchmarking-from-vz-pseudoproxies/#comment-54990</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark T]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 06:38:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=733#comment-54990</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Judith should read that post referred to in #187 because your wavelet decomposition scheme would be useful in her attempts to isolate the various high/mid/low frequency components of hurricane occurrence vs. climate data. The 5y and 10y periodicity in hurricane occurrence would go some way to explaining (i.e. accounting for) the low count for 2007.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I&#039;m curious if this has been attempted with simple short-time Fourier transform methods (like a spectrogram)?  Granted, I must confess to being a fan of wavelets myself (I have history with them), but it would be interesting to see a comparison.  Wavelets are good solutions for spiky/intermittent data (I analyzed speech and a heartbeat, for example), but there is a level of regularity in temperature reconstructions (visually apparent) that almost begs for the periodicity of Fourier.  Just curious... perhaps an exercise for future efforts of my own? :)

Mark]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Judith should read that post referred to in #187 because your wavelet decomposition scheme would be useful in her attempts to isolate the various high/mid/low frequency components of hurricane occurrence vs. climate data. The 5y and 10y periodicity in hurricane occurrence would go some way to explaining (i.e. accounting for) the low count for 2007.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m curious if this has been attempted with simple short-time Fourier transform methods (like a spectrogram)?  Granted, I must confess to being a fan of wavelets myself (I have history with them), but it would be interesting to see a comparison.  Wavelets are good solutions for spiky/intermittent data (I analyzed speech and a heartbeat, for example), but there is a level of regularity in temperature reconstructions (visually apparent) that almost begs for the periodicity of Fourier.  Just curious&#8230; perhaps an exercise for future efforts of my own? <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Mark</p>
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		<title>By: bender</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/07/04/benchmarking-from-vz-pseudoproxies/#comment-54989</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bender]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 05:57:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=733#comment-54989</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How could such a nice opening post get overrun by such trollishness? Hopefully those days are over.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How could such a nice opening post get overrun by such trollishness? Hopefully those days are over.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: TCO</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/07/04/benchmarking-from-vz-pseudoproxies/#comment-54988</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TCO]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Jul 2006 21:49:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=733#comment-54988</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#59 (U).  Then you should either do without the scaling or show the difference is insignificant.  But you are introducing complexities and deviating from simplest style controls.  I would show both if I were you.  Maybe at the end of the paper, you need to speculate a bit on how the whole thing would differ with more MBH style input (more of a mixed proxy set).  Of course, you could write the whole paper and do it for various types of input data, but then I get really worried about the amount of work and length of the paper.  Maybe just do this one for the simple case and do the next one to see interesting effects of more dissimilar input series.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#59 (U).  Then you should either do without the scaling or show the difference is insignificant.  But you are introducing complexities and deviating from simplest style controls.  I would show both if I were you.  Maybe at the end of the paper, you need to speculate a bit on how the whole thing would differ with more MBH style input (more of a mixed proxy set).  Of course, you could write the whole paper and do it for various types of input data, but then I get really worried about the amount of work and length of the paper.  Maybe just do this one for the simple case and do the next one to see interesting effects of more dissimilar input series.</p>
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