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	<title>Comments on: Peer Review of Bürger and Cubasch</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2006/07/04/grl-review-of-burger-and-cubasch/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/07/04/grl-review-of-burger-and-cubasch/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 15:32:22 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Michael Jankowski</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/07/04/grl-review-of-burger-and-cubasch/#comment-54926</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Jankowski]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 19:30:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=732#comment-54926</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re#155, I wonder why his enviro wife doesn&#039;t drive a hybrid?  Wikipedia says there&#039;s a 3rd daughter - why no hybrid for her?

I like this comment: &lt;em&gt;&quot;It&#039;s the same science that we are drawing upon and it&#039;s irrefutable,&quot; he said.&lt;/em&gt;

Brokaw dropped out of the U of Iowa after one year, earned (according to wiki) the nickname &quot;two point Tom&quot; as a slap at his GPA while getting a poly sci degree at U of South Dakota, and now he can &quot;draw upon&quot; the science of climate change?

I&#039;m more qualified to be a network anchor than he is to talk climate change.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re#155, I wonder why his enviro wife doesn&#8217;t drive a hybrid?  Wikipedia says there&#8217;s a 3rd daughter &#8211; why no hybrid for her?</p>
<p>I like this comment: <em>&#8220;It&#8217;s the same science that we are drawing upon and it&#8217;s irrefutable,&#8221; he said.</em></p>
<p>Brokaw dropped out of the U of Iowa after one year, earned (according to wiki) the nickname &#8220;two point Tom&#8221; as a slap at his GPA while getting a poly sci degree at U of South Dakota, and now he can &#8220;draw upon&#8221; the science of climate change?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m more qualified to be a network anchor than he is to talk climate change.</p>
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		<title>By: epica</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/07/04/grl-review-of-burger-and-cubasch/#comment-54925</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[epica]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:58:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=732#comment-54925</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#148 The Holocene Optimum is in particular optimum for high-latitude summer time insolation which is why the Artic is comparably warm (Milankovitch). Low latitudes (Kili,Andes etc) are however less affected by that.
The Alps passed in the last 10-20 years the glacier line of the Medieval. In the Tauern there was active gold mining upto  2500meter for over 200 years emptying nearly all possible seams. Now with the retreating glaciers never seen soils appear and people are already making fun of a new gold rush.
Actual retreat of glaciers is so rapid and strong that the glacier tongues are no longer retreating (since this needs a dynamical reaction of the glaciers), they are disappearing where they are melting from the former accumulation zone to the tongue.
Would be very interested to see the papers showing an icefree Holocene Optimum.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#148 The Holocene Optimum is in particular optimum for high-latitude summer time insolation which is why the Artic is comparably warm (Milankovitch). Low latitudes (Kili,Andes etc) are however less affected by that.<br />
The Alps passed in the last 10-20 years the glacier line of the Medieval. In the Tauern there was active gold mining upto  2500meter for over 200 years emptying nearly all possible seams. Now with the retreating glaciers never seen soils appear and people are already making fun of a new gold rush.<br />
Actual retreat of glaciers is so rapid and strong that the glacier tongues are no longer retreating (since this needs a dynamical reaction of the glaciers), they are disappearing where they are melting from the former accumulation zone to the tongue.<br />
Would be very interested to see the papers showing an icefree Holocene Optimum.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Fritsch</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/07/04/grl-review-of-burger-and-cubasch/#comment-54924</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ken Fritsch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:26:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=732#comment-54924</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;the start would be for Thompson to properly publish his material the way an archaeologist would instead of writing Reader&#039;s Digest articles for popular magazines like Science&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Certainly, when Thompson can rely on the likes of a Tom Brokaw to do that job, he has even less of an excuse for his writing style and publishing choices.

The current main stream thinking on AGW becomes apparent from a preview given in a USA Today interview with Tom Brokaw &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.usatoday.com/weather/climate/2006-07-09-brokaw-global-warming_x.htm?csp=34&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;:

1. The tipping point argument will encourage the &quot;average&quot; Americans to think seriously about GW.

&lt;blockquote&gt;The former NBC anchorman is host of &quot;Global Warming: What You Need to Know,&quot; which doubles as an explainer and call to action for average Americans. It premieres Sunday, July 16 at 9 p.m. on the Discovery Channel.

In helping put together the film, Brokaw said he was surprised at the speed with which everything is happening and the growing agreement among scientists about what was once a controversial notion.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

2. The evidence is overwhelming and precludes even listening to what the &quot;minimizers&quot;  (not denialists or even skeptics, but mininmizers) might have to say.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Producers speak to no one, at least on film, who believes the current warmth is part of the Earth&#039;s natural cycle and who minimizes the importance of what is happening.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

3.  The medicine will not be all that bad (at least at the economic level of a former network anchor)

&lt;blockquote&gt;He&#039;s tried to alter some habits to save fossil fuels: changing light fixtures in his homes, for example. He owns a hybrid car, and so do both of his daughters.

&quot;It&#039;s not affecting our lifestyle at all, not one whit,&quot; he said.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

In summary, I&#039;d like to think of this program&#039;s potential as &quot;The Hockey Stick on Steroids with No Side Effects&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>the start would be for Thompson to properly publish his material the way an archaeologist would instead of writing Reader&#8217;s Digest articles for popular magazines like Science</p></blockquote>
<p>Certainly, when Thompson can rely on the likes of a Tom Brokaw to do that job, he has even less of an excuse for his writing style and publishing choices.</p>
<p>The current main stream thinking on AGW becomes apparent from a preview given in a USA Today interview with Tom Brokaw <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/weather/climate/2006-07-09-brokaw-global-warming_x.htm?csp=34" rel="nofollow">here</a>:</p>
<p>1. The tipping point argument will encourage the &#8220;average&#8221; Americans to think seriously about GW.</p>
<blockquote><p>The former NBC anchorman is host of &#8220;Global Warming: What You Need to Know,&#8221; which doubles as an explainer and call to action for average Americans. It premieres Sunday, July 16 at 9 p.m. on the Discovery Channel.</p>
<p>In helping put together the film, Brokaw said he was surprised at the speed with which everything is happening and the growing agreement among scientists about what was once a controversial notion.</p></blockquote>
<p>2. The evidence is overwhelming and precludes even listening to what the &#8220;minimizers&#8221;  (not denialists or even skeptics, but mininmizers) might have to say.</p>
<blockquote><p>Producers speak to no one, at least on film, who believes the current warmth is part of the Earth&#8217;s natural cycle and who minimizes the importance of what is happening.</p></blockquote>
<p>3.  The medicine will not be all that bad (at least at the economic level of a former network anchor)</p>
<blockquote><p>He&#8217;s tried to alter some habits to save fossil fuels: changing light fixtures in his homes, for example. He owns a hybrid car, and so do both of his daughters.</p>
<p>&#8220;It&#8217;s not affecting our lifestyle at all, not one whit,&#8221; he said.</p></blockquote>
<p>In summary, I&#8217;d like to think of this program&#8217;s potential as &#8220;The Hockey Stick on Steroids with No Side Effects&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: TCO</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/07/04/grl-review-of-burger-and-cubasch/#comment-54923</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TCO]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 03:34:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=732#comment-54923</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree that his articles are not logical, clear expositions, but seem more textualist.  But, I asked you seriously.  What would be a good test?  Do we need to recore?  Look at it like a Martian for a second, like a disinterested scientist or a CEO who just wants an answer and doesn&#039;t care about the squable or who looks bad:  what kind of test is needed?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that his articles are not logical, clear expositions, but seem more textualist.  But, I asked you seriously.  What would be a good test?  Do we need to recore?  Look at it like a Martian for a second, like a disinterested scientist or a CEO who just wants an answer and doesn&#8217;t care about the squable or who looks bad:  what kind of test is needed?</p>
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		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/07/04/grl-review-of-burger-and-cubasch/#comment-54922</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 02:26:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=732#comment-54922</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[150. the start would be for Thompson to properly publish his material the way an archaeologist would instead of writing Reader&#039;s Digest articles for popular magazines like Science. He&#039;s not provided an archive for Dunde drilled in 1987 so why would he provide adequate documentation of Kilimanjaro.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>150. the start would be for Thompson to properly publish his material the way an archaeologist would instead of writing Reader&#8217;s Digest articles for popular magazines like Science. He&#8217;s not provided an archive for Dunde drilled in 1987 so why would he provide adequate documentation of Kilimanjaro.</p>
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		<title>By: TCO</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/07/04/grl-review-of-burger-and-cubasch/#comment-54921</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TCO]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 02:12:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=732#comment-54921</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Given that lots of the high altitude US locations don&#039;t show any instrumental warming, it makes sense that the tree lines don&#039;t move either.  Unlike rings, they can&#039;t respond to global climate fields.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given that lots of the high altitude US locations don&#8217;t show any instrumental warming, it makes sense that the tree lines don&#8217;t move either.  Unlike rings, they can&#8217;t respond to global climate fields.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/07/04/grl-review-of-burger-and-cubasch/#comment-54920</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 02:08:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=732#comment-54920</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Now that I&#039;m apparently back out from under the filtering, let me try this again.

Tree line data is probably a good qualitative comparison of PAST trends, not of current conditions, **IF** one takes into account certain major assymetries.

Rates of change in treeline downward are probably far faster than rates of change upwards.  A tree can die in one year, while growing even a small grove takes far longer.  Also, recruitement of new young trees is generally far more sensitive to bad conditions than maintainaince of established trees. A year that wipes out a stand of seedlings might not bother an exttablished grove at all.  Thus, failure of a treeline to extend upwards is NOT necessarily evidence that conditins are worse now than when a grove existed there.

Taken together, this means that one can not compare TODAY&#039;s treeline to past treelines, to interpret CURRENT relative temperatures.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now that I&#8217;m apparently back out from under the filtering, let me try this again.</p>
<p>Tree line data is probably a good qualitative comparison of PAST trends, not of current conditions, **IF** one takes into account certain major assymetries.</p>
<p>Rates of change in treeline downward are probably far faster than rates of change upwards.  A tree can die in one year, while growing even a small grove takes far longer.  Also, recruitement of new young trees is generally far more sensitive to bad conditions than maintainaince of established trees. A year that wipes out a stand of seedlings might not bother an exttablished grove at all.  Thus, failure of a treeline to extend upwards is NOT necessarily evidence that conditins are worse now than when a grove existed there.</p>
<p>Taken together, this means that one can not compare TODAY&#8217;s treeline to past treelines, to interpret CURRENT relative temperatures.</p>
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		<title>By: TCO</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/07/04/grl-review-of-burger-and-cubasch/#comment-54919</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TCO]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 02:07:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=732#comment-54919</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How could that question be resolved (Kilamanjor, Thompson dating)?  What would be the appropriate analysis or test?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How could that question be resolved (Kilamanjor, Thompson dating)?  What would be the appropriate analysis or test?</p>
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		<title>By: John Creighton</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/07/04/grl-review-of-burger-and-cubasch/#comment-54918</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Creighton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 01:59:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=732#comment-54918</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just for fun I know no one would buy it but I could argue that the dot.coms are related to temperature. For instance dot coms need servers which use a lot of energy. The size of the industry would be roughly correlated with the value of the stocks. A greater dot com industry could imply a greater bank of servers. Servers both give off energy and CO2 emissions are required to produce that energy. Consequently the temperature is dependent on the dot com stocks.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just for fun I know no one would buy it but I could argue that the dot.coms are related to temperature. For instance dot coms need servers which use a lot of energy. The size of the industry would be roughly correlated with the value of the stocks. A greater dot com industry could imply a greater bank of servers. Servers both give off energy and CO2 emissions are required to produce that energy. Consequently the temperature is dependent on the dot com stocks.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/07/04/grl-review-of-burger-and-cubasch/#comment-54917</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 01:57:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=732#comment-54917</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#145. Paul, there is much evidence that treelines were higher and more northerly all over the Arctic in the Holocene Optimum. I&#039;ve got many references and will try to post some up some time.  Not just there, but also in the California Sierra Nevadas and recent work (Schlucter) suggests no glaciers in the Alps. Personally I am very skeptical that the Kilimanjaro glacier existed than and think that Thompson&#039;s dating is very, very shaky.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#145. Paul, there is much evidence that treelines were higher and more northerly all over the Arctic in the Holocene Optimum. I&#8217;ve got many references and will try to post some up some time.  Not just there, but also in the California Sierra Nevadas and recent work (Schlucter) suggests no glaciers in the Alps. Personally I am very skeptical that the Kilimanjaro glacier existed than and think that Thompson&#8217;s dating is very, very shaky.</p>
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