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	<title>Comments on: Moberg&#8217;s G. Bulloides</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/05/mobergs-g-bulloides/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/05/mobergs-g-bulloides/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
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		<title>By: More on Arabian Sea G. Bulloides &#171; Climate Audit</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/05/mobergs-g-bulloides/#comment-227270</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[More on Arabian Sea G. Bulloides &#171; Climate Audit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Apr 2010 14:28:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=848#comment-227270</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] on Arabian Sea G.&#160;Bulloides  On an earlier occasion, I observed  that one of the key Moberg series (and now an essential Juckes series) was the Arabian Sea [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] on Arabian Sea G.&nbsp;Bulloides  On an earlier occasion, I observed  that one of the key Moberg series (and now an essential Juckes series) was the Arabian Sea [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/05/mobergs-g-bulloides/#comment-66190</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Nov 2006 16:29:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=848#comment-66190</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here is a figure from a Gulf of Mexico core reported in Poore et al 2003, which, on a long scale, shows increasing percentage of G bulloides as we approach the last Ice Age. As a thermometer, percentage G bulloides shows cold water not warm water.


Figure 3. Stratigraphic plots of relative abundance of selected planktic foraminifers, d18O for Globigerinoides ruber (white variety) and winter sea-surface temperature estimates in RC 12-10. Data are from the work of Dowsett et al. [2003b].Poore, R. Z., H. J. Dowsett, S. Verardo, and T. M. Quinn, Millennial- to century-scale variability in Gulf of Mexico Holocene climate records, Paleoceanography, 18(2), 1048, doi:10.1029/2002PA000868, 2003.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is a figure from a Gulf of Mexico core reported in Poore et al 2003, which, on a long scale, shows increasing percentage of G bulloides as we approach the last Ice Age. As a thermometer, percentage G bulloides shows cold water not warm water.</p>
<p>Figure 3. Stratigraphic plots of relative abundance of selected planktic foraminifers, d18O for Globigerinoides ruber (white variety) and winter sea-surface temperature estimates in RC 12-10. Data are from the work of Dowsett et al. [2003b].Poore, R. Z., H. J. Dowsett, S. Verardo, and T. M. Quinn, Millennial- to century-scale variability in Gulf of Mexico Holocene climate records, Paleoceanography, 18(2), 1048, doi:10.1029/2002PA000868, 2003.</p>
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		<title>By: bender</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/05/mobergs-g-bulloides/#comment-66189</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bender]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Oct 2006 01:55:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=848#comment-66189</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How clever of them. Not.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How clever of them. Not.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkR</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/05/mobergs-g-bulloides/#comment-66188</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MarkR]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Oct 2006 23:55:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=848#comment-66188</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re #5
&lt;blockquote&gt;If I remember correctly Moberg tested for removing any single proxy to see how much it changed the final result, and it didn&#039;t to any significant degree.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Thats because Moberg inventively included two dodgy proxies for temperature.

Learning from Mann et als &quot;mistake&quot; of only including one dodgy proxy (Bristlecone), Moberg, so he could say his results were &quot;robust&quot; WRT removal of any single proxy, included two.

If you look through StevM&#039;s archive page More on Moberg you will find graphics for each of Mobergs proxies, and they include two suspect ones, #1 and #11that both &quot;coincidentally&quot; have a Hockey Stick shape to them.

Leave only one in and Mobergs process still overweights it and produces a &quot;robust&quot; Hockey Stick.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=345&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;link&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #5</p>
<blockquote><p>If I remember correctly Moberg tested for removing any single proxy to see how much it changed the final result, and it didn&#8217;t to any significant degree.</p></blockquote>
<p>Thats because Moberg inventively included two dodgy proxies for temperature.</p>
<p>Learning from Mann et als &#8220;mistake&#8221; of only including one dodgy proxy (Bristlecone), Moberg, so he could say his results were &#8220;robust&#8221; WRT removal of any single proxy, included two.</p>
<p>If you look through StevM&#8217;s archive page More on Moberg you will find graphics for each of Mobergs proxies, and they include two suspect ones, #1 and #11that both &#8220;coincidentally&#8221; have a Hockey Stick shape to them.</p>
<p>Leave only one in and Mobergs process still overweights it and produces a &#8220;robust&#8221; Hockey Stick.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=345" rel="nofollow">link</a></p>
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		<title>By: James Erlandson</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/05/mobergs-g-bulloides/#comment-66187</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Erlandson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Oct 2006 02:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=848#comment-66187</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[re 9: After one semester of circuits an engineering student would say that your filter is ringing. If you were measuring hydraulic pressure, I&#039;d say there was an air bubble in somewhere in your tubing. And if the red line represents the right rear wheel on your 1959 VW Beetle, you need new shocks.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re 9: After one semester of circuits an engineering student would say that your filter is ringing. If you were measuring hydraulic pressure, I&#8217;d say there was an air bubble in somewhere in your tubing. And if the red line represents the right rear wheel on your 1959 VW Beetle, you need new shocks.</p>
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		<title>By: Willis Eschenbach</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/05/mobergs-g-bulloides/#comment-66186</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Willis Eschenbach]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Oct 2006 00:24:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=848#comment-66186</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re #8, a postscript ... all of this assumes that you are not mining for hockeysticks, in which case all bets are off. However, from what I understand of Moberg, he&#039;s not doing that ...

However, what he is doing is mining for non-normal datasets. If a distribution is fat-tailed, then normalizing (subtract the mean, divide by the standard deviation) emphasizes the tails. This &lt;em&gt;may&lt;/em&gt; be correctable if the series is autocorrelated, because the lower effective &quot;N&quot; increases the standard deviation ... but on the other hand, it may not be. I doubt if Moberg made any such correction, at least I find no mention of it.

I suspect that in fact, this is a fundamental flaw of his method. Essentially, he is doing a Fourier analysis of sorts on the data, breaking it down into sinusoidal or quasi-sinusoidal frequencies. The problem is that a sine wave is non-normal, since the value spends more time at the extreme values. Let me go take a look ...

... 1 hour pause for confirmation ...

Yes, that&#039;s the case. I constructed a synthetic series by averaging two different sinusoidal proxies. I had constructed the proxies previously through the addition of 4 sine waves that differed in frequency, phase and amplitude, so I knew the actual underlying functions. These two proxies had the same four underlying frequencies for both proxies, and differed only in phase and amplitude. Here are the proxies and the data.



The first proxy (blue) explains 23% of the variance, and the other explains 58%. Of course, between them they explain 100% of the variance.

Then, a la Moberg, I did the following:

1. Normalized the proxies.

2. Extracted the underlying four sine waves.

3. Averaged the corresponding frequencies.

4. Recombined the averaged sine waves.

5. Adjusted the mean and standard deviation of the reconstruction to that of the data.

Here are the results ...



The problem, of course, lies in the incorrect calculation of the standard deviations of autocorrelated time series. While this data is extremely autocorrelated, the difficulty is clear. Without adjustment for autocorrelation, Moberg&#039;s method contains an unknown error.
w.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #8, a postscript &#8230; all of this assumes that you are not mining for hockeysticks, in which case all bets are off. However, from what I understand of Moberg, he&#8217;s not doing that &#8230;</p>
<p>However, what he is doing is mining for non-normal datasets. If a distribution is fat-tailed, then normalizing (subtract the mean, divide by the standard deviation) emphasizes the tails. This <em>may</em> be correctable if the series is autocorrelated, because the lower effective &#8220;N&#8221; increases the standard deviation &#8230; but on the other hand, it may not be. I doubt if Moberg made any such correction, at least I find no mention of it.</p>
<p>I suspect that in fact, this is a fundamental flaw of his method. Essentially, he is doing a Fourier analysis of sorts on the data, breaking it down into sinusoidal or quasi-sinusoidal frequencies. The problem is that a sine wave is non-normal, since the value spends more time at the extreme values. Let me go take a look &#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230; 1 hour pause for confirmation &#8230;</p>
<p>Yes, that&#8217;s the case. I constructed a synthetic series by averaging two different sinusoidal proxies. I had constructed the proxies previously through the addition of 4 sine waves that differed in frequency, phase and amplitude, so I knew the actual underlying functions. These two proxies had the same four underlying frequencies for both proxies, and differed only in phase and amplitude. Here are the proxies and the data.</p>
<p>The first proxy (blue) explains 23% of the variance, and the other explains 58%. Of course, between them they explain 100% of the variance.</p>
<p>Then, a la Moberg, I did the following:</p>
<p>1. Normalized the proxies.</p>
<p>2. Extracted the underlying four sine waves.</p>
<p>3. Averaged the corresponding frequencies.</p>
<p>4. Recombined the averaged sine waves.</p>
<p>5. Adjusted the mean and standard deviation of the reconstruction to that of the data.</p>
<p>Here are the results &#8230;</p>
<p>The problem, of course, lies in the incorrect calculation of the standard deviations of autocorrelated time series. While this data is extremely autocorrelated, the difficulty is clear. Without adjustment for autocorrelation, Moberg&#8217;s method contains an unknown error.<br />
w.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/05/mobergs-g-bulloides/#comment-66185</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Oct 2006 23:03:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=848#comment-66185</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;There&#039;s an amusing discussion of confidence intervals in Moberg&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v433/n7026/suppinfo/nature03265.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;SI&lt;/a&gt;:
Due to the relative shortness of the calibration period (124 years) compared to the longest timescales of interest, there is an uncertainty in the determination of the factor f [&quot;variance scaling factor&quot;]. It is practically impossible to quantify this uncertainty directly from the data used in the calibration period. Although it would in principle be possible to calculate a confidence interval for the variance ratio  by using the F-distribution, it turns out that the resulting confidence interval becomes very large if one also accounts for autocorrelation -- which is nearly 0.9 for a lag of 1 year in both the reconstruction and the instrumental data (after removal of

This would be a useful calculation for Jean S or UC to look at.&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>There&#8217;s an amusing discussion of confidence intervals in Moberg&#8217;s <a href="http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v433/n7026/suppinfo/nature03265.html" rel="nofollow">SI</a>:<br />
Due to the relative shortness of the calibration period (124 years) compared to the longest timescales of interest, there is an uncertainty in the determination of the factor f ["variance scaling factor"]. It is practically impossible to quantify this uncertainty directly from the data used in the calibration period. Although it would in principle be possible to calculate a confidence interval for the variance ratio  by using the F-distribution, it turns out that the resulting confidence interval becomes very large if one also accounts for autocorrelation &#8212; which is nearly 0.9 for a lag of 1 year in both the reconstruction and the instrumental data (after removal of</p>
<p>This would be a useful calculation for Jean S or UC to look at.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Willis Eschenbach</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/05/mobergs-g-bulloides/#comment-66184</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Willis Eschenbach]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Oct 2006 20:30:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=848#comment-66184</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re #5, Thomas, thanks for your comment. You say:

&lt;blockquote&gt;If I remember correctly Moberg tested for removing any single proxy to see how much it changed the final result, and it didn&#039;t to any significant degree.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

However, with 11 proxies this is not at all surprising. Suppose we have 11 proxies. All but one of them are randomly distributed around 100, with a standard deviation of say 10, and the final proxy is distributed around 200, with a standard distribution of 20. Let&#039;s say we&#039;re looking at the mean and standard deviation of the average of the proxies as our variables of interest.

The mean of all of the proxies is $latex \frac {10 * 100 + 200}{11} = 109 $. The standard deviation of this mean adds in quadrature, so it is  $latex \frac {\sqrt {10 * 10^2 + 20^2}}{11} = 3.4 $.

If we pull out a correct proxy, the mean of the proxies is $latex \frac {9 * 100 + 200}{10} = 110 $. The standard deviation of the results adds in quadrature, so it is  $latex \frac {\sqrt {9 * 10^2 + 20^2}}{10} = 3.6 $.

If we pull out the incorrect proxy, the mean of the proxies is $latex \frac {10 * 100}{10} = 100 $. The standard deviation of the results again adds in quadrature, so it is  $latex \frac {\sqrt {10 * 10^2 }}{10} = 3.2 $.

Now, this is an extreme example, where one of the proxies is badly wrong, and still pulling out any one proxy doesn&#039;t make much difference (less than 10%).

And in the real world, things are mushier, and errors are never in quadrature, so the removal of an incorrect proxy may, paradoxically, make your results closer to reality ... so in fact, finding things basically unchanged after removing any single one of eleven proxies doesn&#039;t mean much.

w.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #5, Thomas, thanks for your comment. You say:</p>
<blockquote><p>If I remember correctly Moberg tested for removing any single proxy to see how much it changed the final result, and it didn&#8217;t to any significant degree.
</p></blockquote>
<p>However, with 11 proxies this is not at all surprising. Suppose we have 11 proxies. All but one of them are randomly distributed around 100, with a standard deviation of say 10, and the final proxy is distributed around 200, with a standard distribution of 20. Let&#8217;s say we&#8217;re looking at the mean and standard deviation of the average of the proxies as our variables of interest.</p>
<p>The mean of all of the proxies is <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cfrac+%7B10+%2A+100+%2B+200%7D%7B11%7D+%3D+109+&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=000&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;frac {10 * 100 + 200}{11} = 109 ' title='&#92;frac {10 * 100 + 200}{11} = 109 ' class='latex' />. The standard deviation of this mean adds in quadrature, so it is  <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cfrac+%7B%5Csqrt+%7B10+%2A+10%5E2+%2B+20%5E2%7D%7D%7B11%7D+%3D+3.4+&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=000&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;frac {&#92;sqrt {10 * 10^2 + 20^2}}{11} = 3.4 ' title='&#92;frac {&#92;sqrt {10 * 10^2 + 20^2}}{11} = 3.4 ' class='latex' />.</p>
<p>If we pull out a correct proxy, the mean of the proxies is <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cfrac+%7B9+%2A+100+%2B+200%7D%7B10%7D+%3D+110+&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=000&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;frac {9 * 100 + 200}{10} = 110 ' title='&#92;frac {9 * 100 + 200}{10} = 110 ' class='latex' />. The standard deviation of the results adds in quadrature, so it is  <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cfrac+%7B%5Csqrt+%7B9+%2A+10%5E2+%2B+20%5E2%7D%7D%7B10%7D+%3D+3.6+&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=000&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;frac {&#92;sqrt {9 * 10^2 + 20^2}}{10} = 3.6 ' title='&#92;frac {&#92;sqrt {9 * 10^2 + 20^2}}{10} = 3.6 ' class='latex' />.</p>
<p>If we pull out the incorrect proxy, the mean of the proxies is <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cfrac+%7B10+%2A+100%7D%7B10%7D+%3D+100+&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=000&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;frac {10 * 100}{10} = 100 ' title='&#92;frac {10 * 100}{10} = 100 ' class='latex' />. The standard deviation of the results again adds in quadrature, so it is  <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cfrac+%7B%5Csqrt+%7B10+%2A+10%5E2+%7D%7D%7B10%7D+%3D+3.2+&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=000&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;frac {&#92;sqrt {10 * 10^2 }}{10} = 3.2 ' title='&#92;frac {&#92;sqrt {10 * 10^2 }}{10} = 3.2 ' class='latex' />.</p>
<p>Now, this is an extreme example, where one of the proxies is badly wrong, and still pulling out any one proxy doesn&#8217;t make much difference (less than 10%).</p>
<p>And in the real world, things are mushier, and errors are never in quadrature, so the removal of an incorrect proxy may, paradoxically, make your results closer to reality &#8230; so in fact, finding things basically unchanged after removing any single one of eleven proxies doesn&#8217;t mean much.</p>
<p>w.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/05/mobergs-g-bulloides/#comment-66183</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Oct 2006 19:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=848#comment-66183</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#5. Relative medieval-modern levels in Moberg are not as robust as you might think.

Given that perecntage G bulloides has a negative relationship with SST - which is what it is directly measuring - so if the proxy were calibrated to SST, wouldn&#039;t the proxy have a negative effect?

I disagree that Moberg clearly stated that increasing percentages of G bulloides were evidence of colder local SST - or that he clearly articulated why colder SST offshore Oman whould be regarded as especially strong evidence of global warming.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#5. Relative medieval-modern levels in Moberg are not as robust as you might think.</p>
<p>Given that perecntage G bulloides has a negative relationship with SST &#8211; which is what it is directly measuring &#8211; so if the proxy were calibrated to SST, wouldn&#8217;t the proxy have a negative effect?</p>
<p>I disagree that Moberg clearly stated that increasing percentages of G bulloides were evidence of colder local SST &#8211; or that he clearly articulated why colder SST offshore Oman whould be regarded as especially strong evidence of global warming.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Palm</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/05/mobergs-g-bulloides/#comment-66182</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Thomas Palm]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Oct 2006 19:01:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=848#comment-66182</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If I remember correctly Moberg tested for removing any single proxy to see how much it changed the final result, and it didn&#039;t to any significant degree.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I remember correctly Moberg tested for removing any single proxy to see how much it changed the final result, and it didn&#8217;t to any significant degree.</p>
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