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	<title>Comments on: Southern Hemisphere Hurricanes</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/25/southern-hemisphere-hurricanes/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/25/southern-hemisphere-hurricanes/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
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		<title>By: bender</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/25/southern-hemisphere-hurricanes/#comment-67545</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bender]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Nov 2006 16:30:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=872#comment-67545</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Several of the hurricane threads are inaccessible since the &quot;CA new look&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Several of the hurricane threads are inaccessible since the &#8220;CA new look&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: David Smith</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/25/southern-hemisphere-hurricanes/#comment-67544</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Nov 2006 15:58:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=872#comment-67544</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[(The Katrina thread is malfunctioning, at least on my computer, so I&#039;ll borrow this one.)

Steve M expected, way back in early August, that there would be seven or fewer Atlantic hurricanes in 2006. To date, there have been five, with one (Ernesto) which might be downgraded to a tropical storm in reanalysis.

I am declaring Steve a winner on his wager, even though there are about 10 days left in the official season. He has beaten the US National Hurricane Center, Bill Gray, me, most private forecasting firms, my local TV weatherman, my neighbor and (I bet) the RealClimate regulars.

The reason I&#039;m doing this 10 days early is because the Caribbean is about to experience a large intrusion of cool, dry air. That is somewhat unusual for mid-November. Orlando, Florida (DisneyWorld) is forcast to dip to +2C, Miami to +8C and Habana, Cuba to +14C. Miami is even issuing a &quot;wind chill advisory&quot;, I guess for the beachgoers.

This dry, cool air greatly inhibits the main breeding ground (western Caribbean) for late-season storms.

We&#039;ll make a (virtual) champagne toast to Steve on December 1&#039;st.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(The Katrina thread is malfunctioning, at least on my computer, so I&#8217;ll borrow this one.)</p>
<p>Steve M expected, way back in early August, that there would be seven or fewer Atlantic hurricanes in 2006. To date, there have been five, with one (Ernesto) which might be downgraded to a tropical storm in reanalysis.</p>
<p>I am declaring Steve a winner on his wager, even though there are about 10 days left in the official season. He has beaten the US National Hurricane Center, Bill Gray, me, most private forecasting firms, my local TV weatherman, my neighbor and (I bet) the RealClimate regulars.</p>
<p>The reason I&#8217;m doing this 10 days early is because the Caribbean is about to experience a large intrusion of cool, dry air. That is somewhat unusual for mid-November. Orlando, Florida (DisneyWorld) is forcast to dip to +2C, Miami to +8C and Habana, Cuba to +14C. Miami is even issuing a &#8220;wind chill advisory&#8221;, I guess for the beachgoers.</p>
<p>This dry, cool air greatly inhibits the main breeding ground (western Caribbean) for late-season storms.</p>
<p>We&#8217;ll make a (virtual) champagne toast to Steve on December 1&#8242;st.</p>
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		<title>By: Gerald Machnee</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/25/southern-hemisphere-hurricanes/#comment-67543</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gerald Machnee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Nov 2006 02:07:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=872#comment-67543</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[RE **I am glad that (so far) tornadoes have not entered the global-warming arena.**.
An Environment Canada scientist did a study on Canadian hurricanes and concluded that warming is not having a significant effect. With about a thousand tornadoes in the USA and  under a hundred in Canada it is difficult to accurately count them and there can be significant variation from year to year. Then there are stil problems in deciding whether some events were tornadoes. However some have still commented that warming will increase severe weather.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE **I am glad that (so far) tornadoes have not entered the global-warming arena.**.<br />
An Environment Canada scientist did a study on Canadian hurricanes and concluded that warming is not having a significant effect. With about a thousand tornadoes in the USA and  under a hundred in Canada it is difficult to accurately count them and there can be significant variation from year to year. Then there are stil problems in deciding whether some events were tornadoes. However some have still commented that warming will increase severe weather.</p>
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		<title>By: David Smith</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/25/southern-hemisphere-hurricanes/#comment-67542</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Oct 2006 23:06:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=872#comment-67542</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re #16 I&#039;ve asked for pressure data. This evening I will e-mail Neumann on the same subjects.

The Australian Bureau of Meteorology has a table &lt;a href=&quot;http://australiasevereweather.com/cyclones/bomsumm.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; that lists the estimated minimum pressure of each storm in its region, stretching back to circa 1900. It&#039;s not the same a 6-hourly estimates, but it&#039;s still of some use.

I looked at the minimum pressures of storms on this list from 1970 thru 1979, which is essentially pre-satellite for intensity estimates. It is also a period used by Webster. Here is the distribution:

1000-1010 mb: 2 storms
990-999 mb: 34
980-989 mb: 42
970-979 mb: 37
960-969 mb: 19
950-959 mb: 15
940-949 mb: 8
930-939 mb: 8
920-929 mb: 3
910-919 mb: 2
900-909 mb: 0

Here are the storms for 1990-1999, presumably a predominately satellite (Dvorak) era:

1000-1010 mb: 0 storms
990-999 mb: 17 storms
980-989 mb: 14
970-979 mb: 13
960-969 mb: 13
950-959 mb: 16
940-949 mb: 7
930-939 mb: 7
920-929 mb: 10
910-919: 7
900-909: 1

Plotted, those distributions look quite different to me. Either (a) global warming has affected the distribution of storm pressures/intensities, (b) the use of different estimation techniques has affected the distributions or (c) some other shift occurred in the data, such as inclusion of storms from a different region. My guess is (b) or (c). If it is (a), then it seems likely that we should find similar shifts in other storm basins. I will be checking for (c).

(Note: my storm counts are by eyeball-tally, so my counts could be off by a few, but that would not affect the patterns.
Note: The lower the minimum pressure, the stronger the storm. Category 4 and 5 storms are probably 940 mb and lower. Weak storms are 980 mb and higher.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #16 I&#8217;ve asked for pressure data. This evening I will e-mail Neumann on the same subjects.</p>
<p>The Australian Bureau of Meteorology has a table <a href="http://australiasevereweather.com/cyclones/bomsumm.htm" rel="nofollow">here</a> that lists the estimated minimum pressure of each storm in its region, stretching back to circa 1900. It&#8217;s not the same a 6-hourly estimates, but it&#8217;s still of some use.</p>
<p>I looked at the minimum pressures of storms on this list from 1970 thru 1979, which is essentially pre-satellite for intensity estimates. It is also a period used by Webster. Here is the distribution:</p>
<p>1000-1010 mb: 2 storms<br />
990-999 mb: 34<br />
980-989 mb: 42<br />
970-979 mb: 37<br />
960-969 mb: 19<br />
950-959 mb: 15<br />
940-949 mb: 8<br />
930-939 mb: 8<br />
920-929 mb: 3<br />
910-919 mb: 2<br />
900-909 mb: 0</p>
<p>Here are the storms for 1990-1999, presumably a predominately satellite (Dvorak) era:</p>
<p>1000-1010 mb: 0 storms<br />
990-999 mb: 17 storms<br />
980-989 mb: 14<br />
970-979 mb: 13<br />
960-969 mb: 13<br />
950-959 mb: 16<br />
940-949 mb: 7<br />
930-939 mb: 7<br />
920-929 mb: 10<br />
910-919: 7<br />
900-909: 1</p>
<p>Plotted, those distributions look quite different to me. Either (a) global warming has affected the distribution of storm pressures/intensities, (b) the use of different estimation techniques has affected the distributions or (c) some other shift occurred in the data, such as inclusion of storms from a different region. My guess is (b) or (c). If it is (a), then it seems likely that we should find similar shifts in other storm basins. I will be checking for (c).</p>
<p>(Note: my storm counts are by eyeball-tally, so my counts could be off by a few, but that would not affect the patterns.<br />
Note: The lower the minimum pressure, the stronger the storm. Category 4 and 5 storms are probably 940 mb and lower. Weak storms are 980 mb and higher.)</p>
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		<title>By: Kenneth Blumenfeld</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/25/southern-hemisphere-hurricanes/#comment-67541</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kenneth Blumenfeld]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Oct 2006 06:37:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=872#comment-67541</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[14 &amp; 15 (tornado stuff):

It will be a very long time before we can discuss tornado frequency (or hail or straight-line winds) in the context of climate change.  That&#039;s too bad because it is an interesting question.  Tornado winds are not measured; they are inferred from structural damage.  On top of that, the F-scale is an uncalibrated scale.  Extremely large tornadoes that hit nothing get ranked as F0, even if they had the potential to do tremendous damage.  Storm spotters have also helped increase the number of reported tornadoes.  A &quot;harmless&quot; tornado passing through a meadow may have been missed 25 years ago if it didn&#039;t bother anyone; very few tornadoes are missed now.  Wind speeds from thunderstorms are rarley measured; they are estimated--big difference.  Hail stones are compared to coins or spherical objects (by spotters), then assigned an estimated diameter.  There are more spotters near cities, so rural severe weather is under-reported. You wanna talk inhomogeneities?  Start here.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>14 &amp; 15 (tornado stuff):</p>
<p>It will be a very long time before we can discuss tornado frequency (or hail or straight-line winds) in the context of climate change.  That&#8217;s too bad because it is an interesting question.  Tornado winds are not measured; they are inferred from structural damage.  On top of that, the F-scale is an uncalibrated scale.  Extremely large tornadoes that hit nothing get ranked as F0, even if they had the potential to do tremendous damage.  Storm spotters have also helped increase the number of reported tornadoes.  A &#8220;harmless&#8221; tornado passing through a meadow may have been missed 25 years ago if it didn&#8217;t bother anyone; very few tornadoes are missed now.  Wind speeds from thunderstorms are rarley measured; they are estimated&#8211;big difference.  Hail stones are compared to coins or spherical objects (by spotters), then assigned an estimated diameter.  There are more spotters near cities, so rural severe weather is under-reported. You wanna talk inhomogeneities?  Start here.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/25/southern-hemisphere-hurricanes/#comment-67540</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Oct 2006 03:25:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=872#comment-67540</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#13. DAvid, did you ask them for the pressure data? why not worry about that first?  For that matter, maybe Neumann would provide it if you asked him.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#13. DAvid, did you ask them for the pressure data? why not worry about that first?  For that matter, maybe Neumann would provide it if you asked him.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Sadlov</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/25/southern-hemisphere-hurricanes/#comment-67539</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Sadlov]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Oct 2006 02:02:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=872#comment-67539</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[RE: #14 - in the days before Doppler Radar, there was often lots of confusion in any given damaged area, especially when hit at night, as to whether what hit were freak straighline winds, a downburst or a lower F number tornado. Even today, it is not always completely clear, especially when such storms hit in places (such as here in California) which are outside of the well instrumented Tornado Alley.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE: #14 &#8211; in the days before Doppler Radar, there was often lots of confusion in any given damaged area, especially when hit at night, as to whether what hit were freak straighline winds, a downburst or a lower F number tornado. Even today, it is not always completely clear, especially when such storms hit in places (such as here in California) which are outside of the well instrumented Tornado Alley.</p>
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		<title>By: David Smith</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/25/southern-hemisphere-hurricanes/#comment-67538</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Oct 2006 01:32:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=872#comment-67538</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.hprcc.unl.edu/nebraska/US-tornadoes-1950-to-2005-bar.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&lt;/a&gt; is a map of annual tornado count in the US since 1950. The record spans various detection techniques, from damage reports to police to early radar to Doppler radar to next-generation radar and so forth.

The experts attribute the rise in recorded tornadoes to improvements in detection and reporting, and not due to actual increases in tornadoes. What a difference improved techniques make in the historical record. This is also true in the world of hurricanes.

I am glad that (so far) tornadoes have not entered the global-warming arena.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.hprcc.unl.edu/nebraska/US-tornadoes-1950-to-2005-bar.html" rel="nofollow">Here</a> is a map of annual tornado count in the US since 1950. The record spans various detection techniques, from damage reports to police to early radar to Doppler radar to next-generation radar and so forth.</p>
<p>The experts attribute the rise in recorded tornadoes to improvements in detection and reporting, and not due to actual increases in tornadoes. What a difference improved techniques make in the historical record. This is also true in the world of hurricanes.</p>
<p>I am glad that (so far) tornadoes have not entered the global-warming arena.</p>
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		<title>By: David Smith</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/25/southern-hemisphere-hurricanes/#comment-67537</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Oct 2006 00:45:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=872#comment-67537</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My take is that Neumann used storm data (pressures) provided by Australia, Fiji and Reunion (France). His major contribution was to put the data into an apples-to-apples basis, commonly using a formula to convert pressure data into windspeed, consistent with JTWC practices.

All that does is move the question upstream. The question is, where did the Australians, Fijians and Reunioners get their pressure values?

I&#039;ve e-mailed the Australian BOM asking if they can explain the pressure-estimation methodology used in Australia before 1980. The other major party is Reunion (France) but my French is quite poor, so I am trying to think of a third party to ask.

What I expect to learn is that forecasters made best-guesses of central pressure and intensity pre-1980, based on scattered data from the edge of the storm. The exception would be if the storm overran an island having a barograph. Best-guesses are a poor technique (but better than nothing, usually) and become a real problem if they are grafted onto other techniques like satellite estimates and then used in a search for small trends.

How small of a data change is being sought? Per Steve&#039;s graphs, there are about 100 storm-days a year in the Southern Hemisphere, with about 10 of those being category 4 or 5. Ten percent. What we&#039;re looking for is evidence of about a 25 to 50% increase in cat 4 and 5, or 3 to 5 extra intense storm-days a year, in a mostly-remote 8,000-mile stretch of ocean. Daunting.

Neumann&#039;s article contain many warnings and caveats about the SH storm intensity data, even in the satellite era. The data was OK for his purposes (calculating hurricane risk at given locations) but my guess is that he&#039;d caution against using it to search for changes in cat 4 and 5 frequency. I wonder if he was asked.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My take is that Neumann used storm data (pressures) provided by Australia, Fiji and Reunion (France). His major contribution was to put the data into an apples-to-apples basis, commonly using a formula to convert pressure data into windspeed, consistent with JTWC practices.</p>
<p>All that does is move the question upstream. The question is, where did the Australians, Fijians and Reunioners get their pressure values?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve e-mailed the Australian BOM asking if they can explain the pressure-estimation methodology used in Australia before 1980. The other major party is Reunion (France) but my French is quite poor, so I am trying to think of a third party to ask.</p>
<p>What I expect to learn is that forecasters made best-guesses of central pressure and intensity pre-1980, based on scattered data from the edge of the storm. The exception would be if the storm overran an island having a barograph. Best-guesses are a poor technique (but better than nothing, usually) and become a real problem if they are grafted onto other techniques like satellite estimates and then used in a search for small trends.</p>
<p>How small of a data change is being sought? Per Steve&#8217;s graphs, there are about 100 storm-days a year in the Southern Hemisphere, with about 10 of those being category 4 or 5. Ten percent. What we&#8217;re looking for is evidence of about a 25 to 50% increase in cat 4 and 5, or 3 to 5 extra intense storm-days a year, in a mostly-remote 8,000-mile stretch of ocean. Daunting.</p>
<p>Neumann&#8217;s article contain many warnings and caveats about the SH storm intensity data, even in the satellite era. The data was OK for his purposes (calculating hurricane risk at given locations) but my guess is that he&#8217;d caution against using it to search for changes in cat 4 and 5 frequency. I wonder if he was asked.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Sadlov</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/25/southern-hemisphere-hurricanes/#comment-67536</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Sadlov]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Oct 2006 17:34:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=872#comment-67536</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Were there RB-29 and RB-47 flights from Diego Garcia? I am thinking there were not, I think DG post dates that era. Failing that, the only air recon I can imagine would have come from joint US - Australian bases flying out to the West. And those would have ended in the 70s.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Were there RB-29 and RB-47 flights from Diego Garcia? I am thinking there were not, I think DG post dates that era. Failing that, the only air recon I can imagine would have come from joint US &#8211; Australian bases flying out to the West. And those would have ended in the 70s.</p>
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