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	<title>Comments on: Goosse et al 2006 and the MWP</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/29/goosse-et-al-2006-and-the-mwp/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/29/goosse-et-al-2006-and-the-mwp/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 15:48:40 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Armin</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/29/goosse-et-al-2006-and-the-mwp/#comment-67927</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Armin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Oct 2006 09:23:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=881#comment-67927</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Update, yes you have the incorrect PDF. The correct one is

http://www.clim-past.net/2/99/2006/cp-2-99-2006.pdf]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Update, yes you have the incorrect PDF. The correct one is</p>
<p><a href="http://www.clim-past.net/2/99/2006/cp-2-99-2006.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.clim-past.net/2/99/2006/cp-2-99-2006.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Armin</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/29/goosse-et-al-2006-and-the-mwp/#comment-67926</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Armin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Oct 2006 09:21:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=881#comment-67926</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just a quick question. Don&#039;t you have the wrong PDF linked? The one that is linked says &quot;Equatorial insolation: from precession harmonics to eccentricity frequencies&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a quick question. Don&#8217;t you have the wrong PDF linked? The one that is linked says &#8220;Equatorial insolation: from precession harmonics to eccentricity frequencies&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Sadlov</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/29/goosse-et-al-2006-and-the-mwp/#comment-67925</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Sadlov]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Oct 2006 17:40:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=881#comment-67925</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[RE: #9 - The NWS&#039; sequential 90 day outlooks are a travesty. Incidentally, there is the appearance that they tend to err on the side of abnormal warmth in most future 90 day periods. This has been the case now for a few years.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE: #9 &#8211; The NWS&#8217; sequential 90 day outlooks are a travesty. Incidentally, there is the appearance that they tend to err on the side of abnormal warmth in most future 90 day periods. This has been the case now for a few years.</p>
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		<title>By: JPK</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/29/goosse-et-al-2006-and-the-mwp/#comment-67924</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JPK]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Oct 2006 17:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=881#comment-67924</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Our modelling results suggest that the warm summer conditions during the early second millennium compared to the climate background state of the 13th--18th century are due to a large extent to the long term cooling induced by changes in land-use in Europe.&quot;

I&#039;m not sure what changes in land-use they are referring to. Europe&#039;s population circa 1000 was no more than 38 million. It doubled by 1350, but reduced to 55 million by disease, starvation and war. Most of the famous forests of Central Europe and the UK remained intact, and modern farming methods really didn&#039;t hit Europe until the middle of the LIA. Are they blaming the MWP on human induced changes to the earth&#039;s albedo in a small sections of Europe?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Our modelling results suggest that the warm summer conditions during the early second millennium compared to the climate background state of the 13th&#8211;18th century are due to a large extent to the long term cooling induced by changes in land-use in Europe.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure what changes in land-use they are referring to. Europe&#8217;s population circa 1000 was no more than 38 million. It doubled by 1350, but reduced to 55 million by disease, starvation and war. Most of the famous forests of Central Europe and the UK remained intact, and modern farming methods really didn&#8217;t hit Europe until the middle of the LIA. Are they blaming the MWP on human induced changes to the earth&#8217;s albedo in a small sections of Europe?</p>
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		<title>By: JPK</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/29/goosse-et-al-2006-and-the-mwp/#comment-67923</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JPK]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Oct 2006 17:09:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=881#comment-67923</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#5

Demesure,

I&#039;m not sure if ENSO is as big as a reason for the significant drop off in Atlantic Hurricanes for 2006. If you check NOAA&#039;s link below and thier MEI numbers, 2006&#039;s Multivariate Index (MEI) is about the same for 2005 (June-Sept):

http://www.cdc.noaa.gov/people/klaus.wolter/MEI/

NOAA&#039;s medium range forcasters are calling for a &quot;mild&quot; winter for most of the US (East Coast is the exception) due to a recent increase ENSO numbers. For those living in the middle US, where the late summer and autumn have been particularly cold and wet, this winter is forecasted to be warm and dry.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#5</p>
<p>Demesure,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure if ENSO is as big as a reason for the significant drop off in Atlantic Hurricanes for 2006. If you check NOAA&#8217;s link below and thier MEI numbers, 2006&#8242;s Multivariate Index (MEI) is about the same for 2005 (June-Sept):</p>
<p><a href="http://www.cdc.noaa.gov/people/klaus.wolter/MEI/" rel="nofollow">http://www.cdc.noaa.gov/people/klaus.wolter/MEI/</a></p>
<p>NOAA&#8217;s medium range forcasters are calling for a &#8220;mild&#8221; winter for most of the US (East Coast is the exception) due to a recent increase ENSO numbers. For those living in the middle US, where the late summer and autumn have been particularly cold and wet, this winter is forecasted to be warm and dry.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkR</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/29/goosse-et-al-2006-and-the-mwp/#comment-67922</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MarkR]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Oct 2006 12:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=881#comment-67922</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;long term cooling induced by changes in land-use in Europe&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Are these people mad. I thought the warmers theory was that forest clearance was causing increase in CO2 levels, and therefore, in their minds, an increase in temperature. But apparently it caused cooling instead.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8220;long term cooling induced by changes in land-use in Europe&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Are these people mad. I thought the warmers theory was that forest clearance was causing increase in CO2 levels, and therefore, in their minds, an increase in temperature. But apparently it caused cooling instead.</p>
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		<title>By: Bryan Leyland</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/29/goosse-et-al-2006-and-the-mwp/#comment-67921</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bryan Leyland]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Oct 2006 09:36:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=881#comment-67921</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There is evidence for the MWP in the Pacific.  It was when the Polynesians discovered New Zealand and Easter Island.  You need warm weather and gentle breezes to to travel great distances in an open canoe (or Viking longship) in foul and cold weather.  For a while they made 2 way voyages to Easter island using Pitcairn as a staging post.  Then it stopped as the LIA set in.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is evidence for the MWP in the Pacific.  It was when the Polynesians discovered New Zealand and Easter Island.  You need warm weather and gentle breezes to to travel great distances in an open canoe (or Viking longship) in foul and cold weather.  For a while they made 2 way voyages to Easter island using Pitcairn as a staging post.  Then it stopped as the LIA set in.</p>
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		<title>By: Follow the Money</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/29/goosse-et-al-2006-and-the-mwp/#comment-67920</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Follow the Money]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Oct 2006 01:00:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=881#comment-67920</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That gosh darn MWP.  How many ways do they try to get around it?

1.  Deny it existed

2.  Adjust the hockey stick a little and say it was exaggerated.

3.  Call it a regional phenomenon

4.  Concoct a Gulf Stream theory

5.  Finally concede it, but say it was just as hot now than then!

Still existing is the Vikings In Greenland Problem to explain.  Maybe something can be whipped up a la the &quot;scholarship&quot; which explains AGW causes both retreating and advancing glaciers!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That gosh darn MWP.  How many ways do they try to get around it?</p>
<p>1.  Deny it existed</p>
<p>2.  Adjust the hockey stick a little and say it was exaggerated.</p>
<p>3.  Call it a regional phenomenon</p>
<p>4.  Concoct a Gulf Stream theory</p>
<p>5.  Finally concede it, but say it was just as hot now than then!</p>
<p>Still existing is the Vikings In Greenland Problem to explain.  Maybe something can be whipped up a la the &#8220;scholarship&#8221; which explains AGW causes both retreating and advancing glaciers!</p>
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		<title>By: Demesure</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/29/goosse-et-al-2006-and-the-mwp/#comment-67919</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Demesure]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Oct 2006 23:07:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=881#comment-67919</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A model supporting the existence of MWP more than 500 years ago??? That&#039;s ridiculous. And it links the MWP to land use? Oh God, this obsession with demonstrating man&#039;s influence on climate !

Even seasonal models (same type as climate models) fail miserably with 6 months forecasts on el Nino, a major event which can vent an enormous amout of ocean heat into the atmosphere as in 1998 for example. No one predicted this year&#039;s huge el  Nino even by August (see oct-nov-dec forecasts in graph). BTW, that&#039;s why this year hurricane forescasts were also that bad (a strong el Nino means a weak hurricane season).
So a model explaining what MAY happen during the MWP and what MIGHT cause it is just good for an IGNobel prize contest.

 
Ref: &lt;a href=&quot;http://iri.columbia.edu/climate/forecast/sst/pac_atl2006.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://iri.columbia.edu/climate/forecast/sst/pac_atl2006.html&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A model supporting the existence of MWP more than 500 years ago??? That&#8217;s ridiculous. And it links the MWP to land use? Oh God, this obsession with demonstrating man&#8217;s influence on climate !</p>
<p>Even seasonal models (same type as climate models) fail miserably with 6 months forecasts on el Nino, a major event which can vent an enormous amout of ocean heat into the atmosphere as in 1998 for example. No one predicted this year&#8217;s huge el  Nino even by August (see oct-nov-dec forecasts in graph). BTW, that&#8217;s why this year hurricane forescasts were also that bad (a strong el Nino means a weak hurricane season).<br />
So a model explaining what MAY happen during the MWP and what MIGHT cause it is just good for an IGNobel prize contest.</p>
<p>Ref: <a href="http://iri.columbia.edu/climate/forecast/sst/pac_atl2006.html" rel="nofollow">http://iri.columbia.edu/climate/forecast/sst/pac_atl2006.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: welikerocks</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/10/29/goosse-et-al-2006-and-the-mwp/#comment-67918</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[welikerocks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Oct 2006 22:36:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=881#comment-67918</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The discussion for this paper is online here:
http://www.cosis.net/members/journals/df/article.php?a_id=3892

some interesting comments:
Anonymous Referee #2
Received and published: 3 August 2006

Introduction (p 2, first paragraph, lines 4-5): Cite some attribution studies instead.

Introduction (p 2, first paragraph, line 8): Jones and Mann 2004 is a review paper. I suggest citing papers presenting reconstructions (e.g., Jones 1998, Mann et al. 1999, Esper et al. 2002, D&#039;Arrigo et al. 2006, etc.).

Introduction (p 2-3, second paragraph): I didn&#039;t like this paragraph, and in fact believe that it is somewhat misleading. I suggest replacing &quot;By contrast&quot; with &quot;Similarly&quot; (first line), since most - if not all - large scale reconstructions indicate warmth during me- dieval times. The uncertainties in both the large scale and European scale reconstructions (Guiot et al.?) are too large for such a conclusion to be used in the introduction, and do not justify referring to &quot;contrasting&quot; trends. Also, referring to a &quot;conundrum&quot; certainly overlooks the current state of knowledge of past temperature variations in Europe and theNor thern Hemisphere.

Model and forcing description (p 4-6): Detail potential weaknesses/uncer tainties of employing a global model while utilizing regional output (Europe and below). This should also be mentioned in the abstract.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The discussion for this paper is online here:<br />
<a href="http://www.cosis.net/members/journals/df/article.php?a_id=3892" rel="nofollow">http://www.cosis.net/members/journals/df/article.php?a_id=3892</a></p>
<p>some interesting comments:<br />
Anonymous Referee #2<br />
Received and published: 3 August 2006</p>
<p>Introduction (p 2, first paragraph, lines 4-5): Cite some attribution studies instead.</p>
<p>Introduction (p 2, first paragraph, line 8): Jones and Mann 2004 is a review paper. I suggest citing papers presenting reconstructions (e.g., Jones 1998, Mann et al. 1999, Esper et al. 2002, D&#8217;Arrigo et al. 2006, etc.).</p>
<p>Introduction (p 2-3, second paragraph): I didn&#8217;t like this paragraph, and in fact believe that it is somewhat misleading. I suggest replacing &#8220;By contrast&#8221; with &#8220;Similarly&#8221; (first line), since most &#8211; if not all &#8211; large scale reconstructions indicate warmth during me- dieval times. The uncertainties in both the large scale and European scale reconstructions (Guiot et al.?) are too large for such a conclusion to be used in the introduction, and do not justify referring to &#8220;contrasting&#8221; trends. Also, referring to a &#8220;conundrum&#8221; certainly overlooks the current state of knowledge of past temperature variations in Europe and theNor thern Hemisphere.</p>
<p>Model and forcing description (p 4-6): Detail potential weaknesses/uncer tainties of employing a global model while utilizing regional output (Europe and below). This should also be mentioned in the abstract.</p>
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