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	<title>Comments on: Juckes Omnibus</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2006/11/06/juckes-omnibus/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/11/06/juckes-omnibus/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: UC</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/11/06/juckes-omnibus/#comment-69450</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[UC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Dec 2006 16:23:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=894#comment-69450</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[# 219
 Sure,

let x be the known values and y readings on a scale (temperature and proxy/thermometer, for example). Calibration problem is how to estimate new value X by reading Y, using calibration data (x,y). Assuming data is zero-mean (just saving space), we have

CCE=Classical Calibration Estimator
$latex \hat{X}=(x^Tx)/(x^Ty)Y $

ICE= Inverse Calibration Estimator
$latex \hat{X}=(x^Ty)/(y^Ty)Y $

CVM= Composite Plus Variance Matching
$latex \hat{X}=\sqrt{x^Tx}/\sqrt{y^Ty}Y $

those lines are plotted in the figure. (BTW, ICE minimizes calibration residuals)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p># 219<br />
 Sure,</p>
<p>let x be the known values and y readings on a scale (temperature and proxy/thermometer, for example). Calibration problem is how to estimate new value X by reading Y, using calibration data (x,y). Assuming data is zero-mean (just saving space), we have</p>
<p>CCE=Classical Calibration Estimator<br />
<img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Chat%7BX%7D%3D%28x%5ETx%29%2F%28x%5ETy%29Y+&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=000&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;hat{X}=(x^Tx)/(x^Ty)Y ' title='&#92;hat{X}=(x^Tx)/(x^Ty)Y ' class='latex' /></p>
<p>ICE= Inverse Calibration Estimator<br />
<img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Chat%7BX%7D%3D%28x%5ETy%29%2F%28y%5ETy%29Y+&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=000&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;hat{X}=(x^Ty)/(y^Ty)Y ' title='&#92;hat{X}=(x^Ty)/(y^Ty)Y ' class='latex' /></p>
<p>CVM= Composite Plus Variance Matching<br />
<img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Chat%7BX%7D%3D%5Csqrt%7Bx%5ETx%7D%2F%5Csqrt%7By%5ETy%7DY+&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=000&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;hat{X}=&#92;sqrt{x^Tx}/&#92;sqrt{y^Ty}Y ' title='&#92;hat{X}=&#92;sqrt{x^Tx}/&#92;sqrt{y^Ty}Y ' class='latex' /></p>
<p>those lines are plotted in the figure. (BTW, ICE minimizes calibration residuals)</p>
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		<title>By: bender</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/11/06/juckes-omnibus/#comment-69449</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bender]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Dec 2006 15:51:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=894#comment-69449</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[UC, maybe summarize what ICE, CCE, CVM stand for?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>UC, maybe summarize what ICE, CCE, CVM stand for?</p>
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		<title>By: UC</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/11/06/juckes-omnibus/#comment-69448</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[UC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Dec 2006 09:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=894#comment-69448</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[# 215 cont

I made a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.geocities.com/uc_edit/calibration.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;scatter diagram&lt;/a&gt;  of Juckes et al MBH calibration data. The plot includes both regression lines. And these are actually ICE and CCE - take a new observation y (proxy) and use the regression line to estimate x (temperature). CVM is in the middle. I think ICE is not suitable, it is very unlikely that the calibration data is a sample from binormal distribution (check the residuals..). CVM lacks theoretical justification (30 000 hits per day, some of the authors read this blog, if it exists why it is not written down in here??). CCE is left (if I would be mean and provocative I would say that the only problem with CCE is that you can&#039;t make alarming conclusions with the results, and climate science wouldn&#039;t get very far.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p># 215 cont</p>
<p>I made a <a href="http://www.geocities.com/uc_edit/calibration.jpg" rel="nofollow">scatter diagram</a>  of Juckes et al MBH calibration data. The plot includes both regression lines. And these are actually ICE and CCE &#8211; take a new observation y (proxy) and use the regression line to estimate x (temperature). CVM is in the middle. I think ICE is not suitable, it is very unlikely that the calibration data is a sample from binormal distribution (check the residuals..). CVM lacks theoretical justification (30 000 hits per day, some of the authors read this blog, if it exists why it is not written down in here??). CCE is left (if I would be mean and provocative I would say that the only problem with CCE is that you can&#8217;t make alarming conclusions with the results, and climate science wouldn&#8217;t get very far.)</p>
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		<title>By: McCall</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/11/06/juckes-omnibus/#comment-69447</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[McCall]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Dec 2006 17:16:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=894#comment-69447</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Comment Steve McIntyre: &lt;i&gt;&quot;Curiously, the Team has mostly relied on non-peer-reviewed literature (realclimate) to respond to us and climate scientists have been prepared to rely on that.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Comment TAC: &lt;i&gt;&quot;Is this necessarily a bad thing? The blogs are fast and accessible.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

In contrast to the CA blog, which is fast and accessible, when RC exhibits their heavy-handed approval process (not infrequently), RC is neither.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comment Steve McIntyre: <i>&#8220;Curiously, the Team has mostly relied on non-peer-reviewed literature (realclimate) to respond to us and climate scientists have been prepared to rely on that.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Comment TAC: <i>&#8220;Is this necessarily a bad thing? The blogs are fast and accessible.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>In contrast to the CA blog, which is fast and accessible, when RC exhibits their heavy-handed approval process (not infrequently), RC is neither.</p>
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		<title>By: Brooks Hurd</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/11/06/juckes-omnibus/#comment-69446</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brooks Hurd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Dec 2006 16:58:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=894#comment-69446</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: 207

John,

With open comments, Steve is not the only one who can post critical comments on HT work. It remanins to be seen whether anyone will get such a chance in the future. I hope that this sort of review becomes the standard, but I would have to assume that the HT will fight it.

I tried to get a user name and password on Copernicus so that I could comment on COP. Two attempts and both failed. Perhaps I should not have used my real name.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: 207</p>
<p>John,</p>
<p>With open comments, Steve is not the only one who can post critical comments on HT work. It remanins to be seen whether anyone will get such a chance in the future. I hope that this sort of review becomes the standard, but I would have to assume that the HT will fight it.</p>
<p>I tried to get a user name and password on Copernicus so that I could comment on COP. Two attempts and both failed. Perhaps I should not have used my real name.</p>
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		<title>By: UC</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/11/06/juckes-omnibus/#comment-69445</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[UC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Dec 2006 11:25:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=894#comment-69445</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Discussion is closed now at CoP, let&#039;s see what happens. One more note: the paper can&#039;t be completely bad, as it generated so much interesting discussion. To me, the interesting part in general is the univariate (or should I say non-multivariate?) calibration problem (e.g. in Appendix A2.)

The problem of A2 is that the given statistical model is not sufficient for deciding what would be the optimal calibration estimator. You can choose ICE or CCE, depending how you interpret past temperature statistically (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.geocities.com/uc_edit/calib1.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;wrote it down&lt;/a&gt; ). PCA is somewhere between those two. And this paper introduced CVM (tilts the regression line towards the observation axis). Four different ways to calibrate, imagine how many options we have for multivariate calibration!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Discussion is closed now at CoP, let&#8217;s see what happens. One more note: the paper can&#8217;t be completely bad, as it generated so much interesting discussion. To me, the interesting part in general is the univariate (or should I say non-multivariate?) calibration problem (e.g. in Appendix A2.)</p>
<p>The problem of A2 is that the given statistical model is not sufficient for deciding what would be the optimal calibration estimator. You can choose ICE or CCE, depending how you interpret past temperature statistically (<a href="http://www.geocities.com/uc_edit/calib1.pdf" rel="nofollow">wrote it down</a> ). PCA is somewhere between those two. And this paper introduced CVM (tilts the regression line towards the observation axis). Four different ways to calibrate, imagine how many options we have for multivariate calibration!</p>
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		<title>By: John Baltutis</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/11/06/juckes-omnibus/#comment-69444</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Baltutis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Dec 2006 09:04:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=894#comment-69444</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: #213

Maybe they followed the Climate of the Past and CA postings and didn&#039;t want to deal with the critiques.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: #213</p>
<p>Maybe they followed the Climate of the Past and CA postings and didn&#8217;t want to deal with the critiques.</p>
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		<title>By: Armand MacMurray</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/11/06/juckes-omnibus/#comment-69443</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Armand MacMurray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Dec 2006 19:07:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=894#comment-69443</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re:#204
&lt;blockquote&gt;I fear for the success of the experiment unless all or even most of the other journals follow suit.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
And Nature has just announced that it will be ending its experiment with (voluntary) &quot;open&quot; reviewing.  Apparently, authors didn&#039;t want to risk the process, and public comment was lacking.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re:#204</p>
<blockquote><p>I fear for the success of the experiment unless all or even most of the other journals follow suit.</p></blockquote>
<p>And Nature has just announced that it will be ending its experiment with (voluntary) &#8220;open&#8221; reviewing.  Apparently, authors didn&#8217;t want to risk the process, and public comment was lacking.</p>
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		<title>By: TAC</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/11/06/juckes-omnibus/#comment-69442</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TAC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Dec 2006 15:38:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=894#comment-69442</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#211 &lt;blockquote&gt;Curiously, the Team has mostly relied on non-peer-reviewed literature (realclimate) to respond to us and climate scientists have been prepared to rely on that.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Is this necessarily a bad thing?  The blogs are fast and accessible.  Where the HT -- or anyone else -- has a point to make, they can make it quickly on a blog and receive a quick reply.  Discussion in the peer-reviewed literature, on the other hand, is painfully slow, seldom finds a large audience, and is often incomplete.

One final thought: Among blogs, the ones that seem to work best (i.e. are most enlightening and entertaining) are those with an open environment and little or no censorship, where the reader has responsibility for filtering.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#211<br />
<blockquote>Curiously, the Team has mostly relied on non-peer-reviewed literature (realclimate) to respond to us and climate scientists have been prepared to rely on that.</p></blockquote>
<p>Is this necessarily a bad thing?  The blogs are fast and accessible.  Where the HT &#8212; or anyone else &#8212; has a point to make, they can make it quickly on a blog and receive a quick reply.  Discussion in the peer-reviewed literature, on the other hand, is painfully slow, seldom finds a large audience, and is often incomplete.</p>
<p>One final thought: Among blogs, the ones that seem to work best (i.e. are most enlightening and entertaining) are those with an open environment and little or no censorship, where the reader has responsibility for filtering.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/11/06/juckes-omnibus/#comment-69441</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Dec 2006 14:05:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=894#comment-69441</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Curiously, the Team has mostly relied on non-peer-reviewed literature (realclimate) to respond to us and climate scientists have been prepared to rely on that. Where reviewers have had an opportunity to consider our reply, Team submissions have often been rejected even in traditional review processes.  I was given an opportunity to submit a review of the submission of Mann et al to Climatic Change in 2004 and it was rejected.  The comments of Von Storch-Zorita and Huybers were not by the HT; both raised issues that were worth discussing; I think that our Replies dealt with the comments and the net result was useful. The submissions by Ammann and Wahl and Ritson to GRL were each rejected twice.

However, Wahl and Ammann (Climatic Change 2006 - still not published) looks to me like the journal was trying to meet IPCC deadlines as its &quot;provisional&quot; acceptance and &quot;final&quot; acceptance both coincide with IPCC cutoff dates (as they then stood). We had a chance to review the first submission  and were at least able to embarrass the journal into requiring the disclosure of the failed verification statistics (not included in the first submission).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Curiously, the Team has mostly relied on non-peer-reviewed literature (realclimate) to respond to us and climate scientists have been prepared to rely on that. Where reviewers have had an opportunity to consider our reply, Team submissions have often been rejected even in traditional review processes.  I was given an opportunity to submit a review of the submission of Mann et al to Climatic Change in 2004 and it was rejected.  The comments of Von Storch-Zorita and Huybers were not by the HT; both raised issues that were worth discussing; I think that our Replies dealt with the comments and the net result was useful. The submissions by Ammann and Wahl and Ritson to GRL were each rejected twice.</p>
<p>However, Wahl and Ammann (Climatic Change 2006 &#8211; still not published) looks to me like the journal was trying to meet IPCC deadlines as its &#8220;provisional&#8221; acceptance and &#8220;final&#8221; acceptance both coincide with IPCC cutoff dates (as they then stood). We had a chance to review the first submission  and were at least able to embarrass the journal into requiring the disclosure of the failed verification statistics (not included in the first submission).</p>
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