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	<title>Comments on: Overfitting by Inverse Regression</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2006/12/03/overfitting-by-inverse-regression/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/12/03/overfitting-by-inverse-regression/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 03:03:19 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Anti-Antiscience and Statistical Parlor Tricks &#171; Climate Audit</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/12/03/overfitting-by-inverse-regression/#comment-307399</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anti-Antiscience and Statistical Parlor Tricks &#171; Climate Audit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Oct 2011 11:39:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=949#comment-307399</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] be even more embarrassing to the climate science trade than MBH98 ( see posts here , especially here here here [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] be even more embarrassing to the climate science trade than MBH98 ( see posts here , especially here here here [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Peter D. Tillman</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/12/03/overfitting-by-inverse-regression/#comment-72032</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter D. Tillman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=949#comment-72032</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For the non-statistician, Wikipedia has a nice discussion of the perils of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overfitting Overfitting] -- &quot;An absurd and false model may fit perfectly if the model has enough complexity by comparison to the amount of data available.&quot;

If someone here has access to the  &lt;a href=&quot;http://mrw.interscience.wiley.com/emrw/9780471667193/home/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Encyclopedia of Statistical Sciences&lt;/a&gt; , they could post their definition of Inverse Regression here.

Also see the new http://climateaudit101.wikispot.org/Glossary_of_Climatology_Terms -- a work-in-progress.

Cheers -- Pete Tillman
ClimateAudit 101 team
http://climateaudit101.wikispot.org]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the non-statistician, Wikipedia has a nice discussion of the perils of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overfitting Overfitting] &#8212; &#8220;An absurd and false model may fit perfectly if the model has enough complexity by comparison to the amount of data available.&#8221;</p>
<p>If someone here has access to the  <a href="http://mrw.interscience.wiley.com/emrw/9780471667193/home/" rel="nofollow"> Encyclopedia of Statistical Sciences</a> , they could post their definition of Inverse Regression here.</p>
<p>Also see the new <a href="http://climateaudit101.wikispot.org/Glossary_of_Climatology_Terms" rel="nofollow">http://climateaudit101.wikispot.org/Glossary_of_Climatology_Terms</a> &#8212; a work-in-progress.</p>
<p>Cheers &#8212; Pete Tillman<br />
ClimateAudit 101 team<br />
<a href="http://climateaudit101.wikispot.org" rel="nofollow">http://climateaudit101.wikispot.org</a></p>
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		<title>By: Simone82</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/12/03/overfitting-by-inverse-regression/#comment-72031</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Simone82]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2007 08:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=949#comment-72031</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Steve!
I&#039;m an italian archaeologist, not a climate scientist, but (or just for this!) find egually absurd the &quot;Mann&#039;s hockey stick&quot;.
These continuous attempt to discredit your study reveals the irritation that you have caused!

For the climate science is important the consensus, not the facts!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Steve!<br />
I&#8217;m an italian archaeologist, not a climate scientist, but (or just for this!) find egually absurd the &#8220;Mann&#8217;s hockey stick&#8221;.<br />
These continuous attempt to discredit your study reveals the irritation that you have caused!</p>
<p>For the climate science is important the consensus, not the facts!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: UC</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/12/03/overfitting-by-inverse-regression/#comment-72030</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[UC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 13:37:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=949#comment-72030</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Did I understand this correctly, they replace original MBH98 proxy data (with PCs) by a larger set of proxy data (no PCs).



&lt;blockquote&gt;The number of proxy records successively increases for the four scenarios (95, 139, 378, 405).&lt;/blockquote&gt;



Then, data is run through MBH98 machine, and not much differences  are found, except that offset in verification mean rises 0.1  degrees.

If so, nice result, but degrees of freedom should be taken into account. As in Brown&#039;s multivariate calibration confidence formula,

$latex (Y&#039;-\hat{\alpha}-\hat{B}X&#039;)^TS^{-1}(Y&#039;-\hat{\alpha}-\hat{B}X&#039;)/\sigma ^2(X&#039;)\leq (q/v)F(\gamma) $

which takes this kind of overfitting (large amount of responses) into account in the uncertainties.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did I understand this correctly, they replace original MBH98 proxy data (with PCs) by a larger set of proxy data (no PCs).</p>
<blockquote><p>The number of proxy records successively increases for the four scenarios (95, 139, 378, 405).</p></blockquote>
<p>Then, data is run through MBH98 machine, and not much differences  are found, except that offset in verification mean rises 0.1  degrees.</p>
<p>If so, nice result, but degrees of freedom should be taken into account. As in Brown&#8217;s multivariate calibration confidence formula,</p>
<p><img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%28Y%27-%5Chat%7B%5Calpha%7D-%5Chat%7BB%7DX%27%29%5ETS%5E%7B-1%7D%28Y%27-%5Chat%7B%5Calpha%7D-%5Chat%7BB%7DX%27%29%2F%5Csigma+%5E2%28X%27%29%5Cleq+%28q%2Fv%29F%28%5Cgamma%29+&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=000&amp;s=0' alt='(Y&#039;-&#92;hat{&#92;alpha}-&#92;hat{B}X&#039;)^TS^{-1}(Y&#039;-&#92;hat{&#92;alpha}-&#92;hat{B}X&#039;)/&#92;sigma ^2(X&#039;)&#92;leq (q/v)F(&#92;gamma) ' title='(Y&#039;-&#92;hat{&#92;alpha}-&#92;hat{B}X&#039;)^TS^{-1}(Y&#039;-&#92;hat{&#92;alpha}-&#92;hat{B}X&#039;)/&#92;sigma ^2(X&#039;)&#92;leq (q/v)F(&#92;gamma) ' class='latex' /></p>
<p>which takes this kind of overfitting (large amount of responses) into account in the uncertainties.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/12/03/overfitting-by-inverse-regression/#comment-72029</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 00:01:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=949#comment-72029</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#7. Yeah, I&#039;ve read it.  They&#039;ve had to do some jerry-rigging to deal with rejection of Ammann and Wahl (GRL).  They&#039;ve replaced these references with citations of Ammann and Wahl 2007 - Climatic Change, accepted in June 2007, which went online recently (as was noticed here.)  It&#039;s interesting that a paper which was supposedly &quot;in press&quot; by February 2006 to meet IPCC deadlines relies on a paper accepted only in June 2007.

I previously commented that Wahl and Ammann had been engaged in &quot;academic check kiting&quot;.  In this case, they seem to have realized the absurdity of citing a rejected paper and tried to cooper up the situation.  From my perspective - and I&#039;m used to business situations, I would have said that any &quot;acceptance&quot; of Wahl and Ammann 2007 must surely have been conditional on the rejected companion article being accepted somewhere and that it is false to say that it was &quot;accepted&quot; on March 1, 2006. (This matters only because they were already being cute with IPCC publications deadline.) IPCC &quot;needed&quot; this article because otherwise there was no journal article that could be used to argue against our criticisms.

Their emulation of MBH exactly matches ours, as I observed in May 2005 and most of our results, given the same assumptions, are virtually the same.

I;ve reported a lot on this - see http://www.climateaudit.org/?cat=20 . Not much has changed here.

As I reported earlier, in late 2005, I suggested to Ammann that, rather than engaging in further controversy, we try to write a joint paper summarizing what we agreed on. Ammann said that it would be bad for his career advancement and thus the controversy continues.  On an earlier occasion in June 2005, they tried to trick Stephen Schneider about the rejection of the GRL article. They only included the failed verification r2 statistics after I filed an academic misconduct complaint.

I guess that I&#039;ll have to bestir myself to respond to this dreck formally. Ammann and Wahl make so many misrepresentations of the issues that it&#039;s hard to write a journal response without being tedious and yet there are a lot of spitballs that need to be picked off the wall.























The submission and acceptance dates of the articles.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#7. Yeah, I&#8217;ve read it.  They&#8217;ve had to do some jerry-rigging to deal with rejection of Ammann and Wahl (GRL).  They&#8217;ve replaced these references with citations of Ammann and Wahl 2007 &#8211; Climatic Change, accepted in June 2007, which went online recently (as was noticed here.)  It&#8217;s interesting that a paper which was supposedly &#8220;in press&#8221; by February 2006 to meet IPCC deadlines relies on a paper accepted only in June 2007.</p>
<p>I previously commented that Wahl and Ammann had been engaged in &#8220;academic check kiting&#8221;.  In this case, they seem to have realized the absurdity of citing a rejected paper and tried to cooper up the situation.  From my perspective &#8211; and I&#8217;m used to business situations, I would have said that any &#8220;acceptance&#8221; of Wahl and Ammann 2007 must surely have been conditional on the rejected companion article being accepted somewhere and that it is false to say that it was &#8220;accepted&#8221; on March 1, 2006. (This matters only because they were already being cute with IPCC publications deadline.) IPCC &#8220;needed&#8221; this article because otherwise there was no journal article that could be used to argue against our criticisms.</p>
<p>Their emulation of MBH exactly matches ours, as I observed in May 2005 and most of our results, given the same assumptions, are virtually the same.</p>
<p>I;ve reported a lot on this &#8211; see <a href="http://www.climateaudit.org/?cat=20" rel="nofollow">http://www.climateaudit.org/?cat=20</a> . Not much has changed here.</p>
<p>As I reported earlier, in late 2005, I suggested to Ammann that, rather than engaging in further controversy, we try to write a joint paper summarizing what we agreed on. Ammann said that it would be bad for his career advancement and thus the controversy continues.  On an earlier occasion in June 2005, they tried to trick Stephen Schneider about the rejection of the GRL article. They only included the failed verification r2 statistics after I filed an academic misconduct complaint.</p>
<p>I guess that I&#8217;ll have to bestir myself to respond to this dreck formally. Ammann and Wahl make so many misrepresentations of the issues that it&#8217;s hard to write a journal response without being tedious and yet there are a lot of spitballs that need to be picked off the wall.</p>
<p>The submission and acceptance dates of the articles.</p>
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		<title>By: Simone82</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/12/03/overfitting-by-inverse-regression/#comment-72028</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Simone82]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 22:49:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=949#comment-72028</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Steve!
Do you read the new &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.springerlink.com/content/h483676101066104/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Wahl-Ammann paper&lt;/a&gt; in &lt;em&gt;Climate Change&lt;/em&gt; &quot;on-line first&quot;?

From abstract:
«Altogether new reconstructions over 14001980 are developed in both the indirect and direct analyses, which demonstrate that the Mann et al. reconstruction is robust against the proxy-based criticisms addressed.»

Excuse me if I&#039;ve resumed this ancient post!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Steve!<br />
Do you read the new <a href="http://www.springerlink.com/content/h483676101066104/" rel="nofollow">Wahl-Ammann paper</a> in <em>Climate Change</em> &#8220;on-line first&#8221;?</p>
<p>From abstract:<br />
«Altogether new reconstructions over 14001980 are developed in both the indirect and direct analyses, which demonstrate that the Mann et al. reconstruction is robust against the proxy-based criticisms addressed.»</p>
<p>Excuse me if I&#8217;ve resumed this ancient post!</p>
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		<title>By: UC</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/12/03/overfitting-by-inverse-regression/#comment-72027</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[UC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Dec 2006 15:18:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=949#comment-72027</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#4

&lt;blockquote&gt;Kendall and Stuart (Chap 29, &quot;Advanced Theory of Statistics,&quot; vol 2, 4th ed.) devotes a whole chapter to this problem (&quot;functional and structural relationship&quot;). My reading is that things are a mess, particularly if one recognizes the existence of measurement error in both X and Y variables.&lt;/blockquote&gt;


There is also a section on Calibration (32.76-32.77), (6th edition)

&lt;blockquote&gt;Two cases emerge, which have sometimes been confused in the literature. We refer these as the &lt;em&gt;unconditional&lt;/em&gt; and &lt;em&gt;conditional models&lt;/em&gt;, respectively, the terms being used in a manner that is consistent with our earlier description of regression methods in these chapters. Also, we refer to the general question of estimating $latex x_{n+1} $ as a calibration problem, rather than one of &lt;em&gt;inverse&lt;/em&gt; regression, as the term &#039;inverse&#039; seems open to misinterpretation&lt;/blockquote&gt;

For the multivariate calibration case, the reader is referred to Brown 1982 (the same as in #3) .]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#4</p>
<blockquote><p>Kendall and Stuart (Chap 29, &#8220;Advanced Theory of Statistics,&#8221; vol 2, 4th ed.) devotes a whole chapter to this problem (&#8220;functional and structural relationship&#8221;). My reading is that things are a mess, particularly if one recognizes the existence of measurement error in both X and Y variables.</p></blockquote>
<p>There is also a section on Calibration (32.76-32.77), (6th edition)</p>
<blockquote><p>Two cases emerge, which have sometimes been confused in the literature. We refer these as the <em>unconditional</em> and <em>conditional models</em>, respectively, the terms being used in a manner that is consistent with our earlier description of regression methods in these chapters. Also, we refer to the general question of estimating <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=x_%7Bn%2B1%7D+&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=000&amp;s=0' alt='x_{n+1} ' title='x_{n+1} ' class='latex' /> as a calibration problem, rather than one of <em>inverse</em> regression, as the term &#8216;inverse&#8217; seems open to misinterpretation</p></blockquote>
<p>For the multivariate calibration case, the reader is referred to Brown 1982 (the same as in #3) .</p>
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		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/12/03/overfitting-by-inverse-regression/#comment-72026</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Dec 2006 14:28:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=949#comment-72026</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#4. The term &quot;inverse regression&quot; has to be used cautiously. &quot;Inverse regression&quot; has a meaning in statistics, which is different than Partial Least Squares regression.

In circumstances where the proxies have considerable orthogonality - if one can talk this way - Partial Least Squares regression approaches Ordinary Least Squares regression. OLS rotates the PLS-coefficients in n-space by the matrix $latex (X^T X)^{-1} $. The proxies in (say) the MBH98 network are surprisingly orthogonal. Mixing Partial Least Squares regression with prior processing using Principal Components is not an obviously consistent procedure - the prior Principal Components operation generates orthogonal series, which are exactly what you &quot;shouldn&#039;t&quot; want for Partial Least Squares regression.

In the case of the MBH98 network (and I suspect that it&#039;s also true for the MBH99 network), the PLS regression coefficients are surprisingly close to OLS coefficients.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#4. The term &#8220;inverse regression&#8221; has to be used cautiously. &#8220;Inverse regression&#8221; has a meaning in statistics, which is different than Partial Least Squares regression.</p>
<p>In circumstances where the proxies have considerable orthogonality &#8211; if one can talk this way &#8211; Partial Least Squares regression approaches Ordinary Least Squares regression. OLS rotates the PLS-coefficients in n-space by the matrix <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%28X%5ET+X%29%5E%7B-1%7D+&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=000&amp;s=0' alt='(X^T X)^{-1} ' title='(X^T X)^{-1} ' class='latex' />. The proxies in (say) the MBH98 network are surprisingly orthogonal. Mixing Partial Least Squares regression with prior processing using Principal Components is not an obviously consistent procedure &#8211; the prior Principal Components operation generates orthogonal series, which are exactly what you &#8220;shouldn&#8217;t&#8221; want for Partial Least Squares regression.</p>
<p>In the case of the MBH98 network (and I suspect that it&#8217;s also true for the MBH99 network), the PLS regression coefficients are surprisingly close to OLS coefficients.</p>
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		<title>By: TAC</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/12/03/overfitting-by-inverse-regression/#comment-72025</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TAC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Dec 2006 13:44:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=949#comment-72025</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Is there any generally accepted approach to avoid the problems introduced by &quot;inverse regression&quot;? If the proxies (denoted Prox) are each functionally dependent on temperature (denoted Temp), then the correct functional relationship is something like Prox = Temp + error.  If we then try to use that model to predict Temp from Prox (rather than Prox from Temp; there&#039;s a switch here), we are no longer in the world of linear regression.  It may look a lot like linear regression to the non-statistician; but it isn&#039;t linear regression.

Kendall and Stuart (Chap 29, &quot;Advanced Theory of Statistics,&quot; vol 2, 4th ed.) devotes a whole chapter to this problem (&quot;functional and structural relationship&quot;). My reading is that things are a mess, particularly if one recognizes the existence of measurement error in both X and Y variables.

The problems vanish if all the error variances are sufficiently small. But I&#039;m not sure that&#039;s the case when dealing with climate reconstructions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there any generally accepted approach to avoid the problems introduced by &#8220;inverse regression&#8221;? If the proxies (denoted Prox) are each functionally dependent on temperature (denoted Temp), then the correct functional relationship is something like Prox = Temp + error.  If we then try to use that model to predict Temp from Prox (rather than Prox from Temp; there&#8217;s a switch here), we are no longer in the world of linear regression.  It may look a lot like linear regression to the non-statistician; but it isn&#8217;t linear regression.</p>
<p>Kendall and Stuart (Chap 29, &#8220;Advanced Theory of Statistics,&#8221; vol 2, 4th ed.) devotes a whole chapter to this problem (&#8220;functional and structural relationship&#8221;). My reading is that things are a mess, particularly if one recognizes the existence of measurement error in both X and Y variables.</p>
<p>The problems vanish if all the error variances are sufficiently small. But I&#8217;m not sure that&#8217;s the case when dealing with climate reconstructions.</p>
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		<title>By: UC</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2006/12/03/overfitting-by-inverse-regression/#comment-72024</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[UC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Dec 2006 12:52:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=949#comment-72024</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m quite sure that there are papers on this topic somewhere (overfitting / overprediction in calibration problems). For univariate case, Brown (1) gives a confidence region which is

&lt;blockquote&gt;respectable interval provided the t-test of the hypothesis $latex \beta=0 $ is rejected&lt;/blockquote&gt;

and

&lt;blockquote&gt;The practical man&#039;s answer that one should not attempt calibration when one is not confident that $latex \beta \neq 0 $ might be countered by the argument that if the procedure is obviously suspect in some circumstances then the solutions may be far from ideal in the other cases where there is no obvious flaw.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m sure this applies to multivariate case as well, i.e. 1) in calibration make sure a priori that there is a (linear) physical relationship between x and y 2) Don&#039;t use calibration residuals for evaluating the model.

1) P.J. Brown (1982) Multivariate Calibration. Journal of the Royal Statistical Society. Series B, Vol. 44, No.3. pp 287-321]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m quite sure that there are papers on this topic somewhere (overfitting / overprediction in calibration problems). For univariate case, Brown (1) gives a confidence region which is</p>
<blockquote><p>respectable interval provided the t-test of the hypothesis <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cbeta%3D0+&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=000&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;beta=0 ' title='&#92;beta=0 ' class='latex' /> is rejected</p></blockquote>
<p>and</p>
<blockquote><p>The practical man&#8217;s answer that one should not attempt calibration when one is not confident that <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cbeta+%5Cneq+0+&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=000&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;beta &#92;neq 0 ' title='&#92;beta &#92;neq 0 ' class='latex' /> might be countered by the argument that if the procedure is obviously suspect in some circumstances then the solutions may be far from ideal in the other cases where there is no obvious flaw.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m sure this applies to multivariate case as well, i.e. 1) in calibration make sure a priori that there is a (linear) physical relationship between x and y 2) Don&#8217;t use calibration residuals for evaluating the model.</p>
<p>1) P.J. Brown (1982) Multivariate Calibration. Journal of the Royal Statistical Society. Series B, Vol. 44, No.3. pp 287-321</p>
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