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	<title>Comments on: Statistics of Record-Breaking Temperatures</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2007/01/13/statistics-of-record-breaking-temperatures/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/01/13/statistics-of-record-breaking-temperatures/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
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		<title>By: Michael Jankowski</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/01/13/statistics-of-record-breaking-temperatures/#comment-75638</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Jankowski]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:23:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1064#comment-75638</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Off the top of my head, the only things that will make the sensors bias cold, would be a plant that partially shaded
the sensor.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
In addition to the fact that the sensors should already be shaded: if such a plant were close to the sensor, it would impact the humidity.  I&#039;ve seen in recommended by energy  convervation folks that while well-placed trees can help shade and cool a home in the summer time, poorly-placed trees will make it more difficult to cool the house.

Maybe someone more familiar with this could give better details, but it seems to me that in such a situation one would see night-time lows higher near a plant than away from it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Off the top of my head, the only things that will make the sensors bias cold, would be a plant that partially shaded<br />
the sensor.</p></blockquote>
<p>In addition to the fact that the sensors should already be shaded: if such a plant were close to the sensor, it would impact the humidity.  I&#8217;ve seen in recommended by energy  convervation folks that while well-placed trees can help shade and cool a home in the summer time, poorly-placed trees will make it more difficult to cool the house.</p>
<p>Maybe someone more familiar with this could give better details, but it seems to me that in such a situation one would see night-time lows higher near a plant than away from it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: MarkW</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/01/13/statistics-of-record-breaking-temperatures/#comment-75637</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MarkW]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 17:46:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1064#comment-75637</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This might have been the article I was thinking of.  I hadn&#039;t noticed this the first time,
but our own Roger A. Pielke Sr. was one of the authors.

http://ams.allenpress.com/archive/1520-0477/86/4/pdf/i1520-0477-86-4-497.pdf

I did make two mistakes in my above reference.  It was the April addition, not August, (2005)

and it&#039;s the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society.  Not the Journal.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This might have been the article I was thinking of.  I hadn&#8217;t noticed this the first time,<br />
but our own Roger A. Pielke Sr. was one of the authors.</p>
<p><a href="http://ams.allenpress.com/archive/1520-0477/86/4/pdf/i1520-0477-86-4-497.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://ams.allenpress.com/archive/1520-0477/86/4/pdf/i1520-0477-86-4-497.pdf</a></p>
<p>I did make two mistakes in my above reference.  It was the April addition, not August, (2005)</p>
<p>and it&#8217;s the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society.  Not the Journal.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: MarkW</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/01/13/statistics-of-record-breaking-temperatures/#comment-75636</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MarkW]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 17:23:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1064#comment-75636</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[jae,

I haven&#039;t been able to find a copy of the regulations, but every picture I have ever seen of a sensor box has them
standing in an open grassy area.  No shade.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jae,</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t been able to find a copy of the regulations, but every picture I have ever seen of a sensor box has them<br />
standing in an open grassy area.  No shade.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: bez</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/01/13/statistics-of-record-breaking-temperatures/#comment-75635</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bez]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 08:43:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1064#comment-75635</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi All, been lurking for a while now.

Re: 125 and previous posts

CRU is part of UEA hence

http://www1.uea.ac.uk/cm/home/services/units/is/strategies/infregs/foi/

May or may not be some use for getting data out of them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi All, been lurking for a while now.</p>
<p>Re: 125 and previous posts</p>
<p>CRU is part of UEA hence</p>
<p><a href="http://www1.uea.ac.uk/cm/home/services/units/is/strategies/infregs/foi/" rel="nofollow">http://www1.uea.ac.uk/cm/home/services/units/is/strategies/infregs/foi/</a></p>
<p>May or may not be some use for getting data out of them.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jae</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/01/13/statistics-of-record-breaking-temperatures/#comment-75634</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jae]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 22:40:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1064#comment-75634</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Off the top of my head, the only things that will make the sensors bias cold, would be a plant that partially shaded
the sensor.&lt;/blockquote&gt;


I don&#039;t see this as a cold bias.  They should all be shaded.  A white box still picks up a lot of solar and IR radiation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Off the top of my head, the only things that will make the sensors bias cold, would be a plant that partially shaded<br />
the sensor.</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t see this as a cold bias.  They should all be shaded.  A white box still picks up a lot of solar and IR radiation.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Earle Williams</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/01/13/statistics-of-record-breaking-temperatures/#comment-75633</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Earle Williams]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 21:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1064#comment-75633</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re #125

Nordic,

I agree with you 100%, but it is at least worth a shot.  You may be lucky enough to get a clerk or student to send you the info.

Earle]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #125</p>
<p>Nordic,</p>
<p>I agree with you 100%, but it is at least worth a shot.  You may be lucky enough to get a clerk or student to send you the info.</p>
<p>Earle</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nordic</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/01/13/statistics-of-record-breaking-temperatures/#comment-75632</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nordic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 21:17:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1064#comment-75632</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Steve:  RE #123  I have seen that quote posted here before, but had no idea they didn&#039;t even release the names of the stations they had used.  That is just incredible.

Not releasing the details of how they have adjusted and corrected data is one thing, but not even allowing people to see what stations were used and experiment with different assumptions themselves is preposterous.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve:  RE #123  I have seen that quote posted here before, but had no idea they didn&#8217;t even release the names of the stations they had used.  That is just incredible.</p>
<p>Not releasing the details of how they have adjusted and corrected data is one thing, but not even allowing people to see what stations were used and experiment with different assumptions themselves is preposterous.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: MarkW</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/01/13/statistics-of-record-breaking-temperatures/#comment-75631</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MarkW]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:03:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1064#comment-75631</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[120,

I was thinking more on the lines of environmental issues.
Anything that decreases average wind velocity in are of the sensor will make it read hotter.  Be it a hedge row, or
dust collecting on the vent screens.
The boxes are supposed to be painted pure white, but as they age, the paint starts turning grey, so they have to be
repainted regurally.  Concrete or asphalt being laid down in the vicinity of the sensor.  Even the adding of lights to
the exterior of nearby buildings can have a small influence.

Off the top of my head, the only things that will make the sensors bias cold, would be a plant that partially shaded
the sensor.

The JAMS article I referenced earlier was rather shocking.   The boxes are supposed to be on poles (6 ft tall, I think)
well away from buildings.  They had a picture of one that was mounted to the southern side of a building, just a few
feet away from an air conditioner unit.  It&#039;s been awhile since I read the report, but my recollection is that of the
surveyed sensors, at some 20 to 30% had environmental problems severe enough, that in the opinion of the authors,
the data from those sites was compromised.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>120,</p>
<p>I was thinking more on the lines of environmental issues.<br />
Anything that decreases average wind velocity in are of the sensor will make it read hotter.  Be it a hedge row, or<br />
dust collecting on the vent screens.<br />
The boxes are supposed to be painted pure white, but as they age, the paint starts turning grey, so they have to be<br />
repainted regurally.  Concrete or asphalt being laid down in the vicinity of the sensor.  Even the adding of lights to<br />
the exterior of nearby buildings can have a small influence.</p>
<p>Off the top of my head, the only things that will make the sensors bias cold, would be a plant that partially shaded<br />
the sensor.</p>
<p>The JAMS article I referenced earlier was rather shocking.   The boxes are supposed to be on poles (6 ft tall, I think)<br />
well away from buildings.  They had a picture of one that was mounted to the southern side of a building, just a few<br />
feet away from an air conditioner unit.  It&#8217;s been awhile since I read the report, but my recollection is that of the<br />
surveyed sensors, at some 20 to 30% had environmental problems severe enough, that in the opinion of the authors,<br />
the data from those sites was compromised.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/01/13/statistics-of-record-breaking-temperatures/#comment-75630</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 19:46:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1064#comment-75630</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#121.  You will have no luck trying to get station identifications from HadCRU. This has been an ongoing complaint. Jones said when asked: We have 25 years invested in this - why should we let you see the data when your only objective is to find something wrong with it&quot;?

On downloading HadCRU3 into R - &#039;ve done this recently and I&#039;ll post up a methodology for retrieving it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#121.  You will have no luck trying to get station identifications from HadCRU. This has been an ongoing complaint. Jones said when asked: We have 25 years invested in this &#8211; why should we let you see the data when your only objective is to find something wrong with it&#8221;?</p>
<p>On downloading HadCRU3 into R &#8211; &#8216;ve done this recently and I&#8217;ll post up a methodology for retrieving it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Earle Williams</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/01/13/statistics-of-record-breaking-temperatures/#comment-75629</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Earle Williams]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:41:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1064#comment-75629</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re #121

Nordic,

I&#039;m a babe in the woods with respect to these datasets.  I haven&#039;t even figured out how to read the HadCRUT3 gridcell data  into R.  I suggest rooting around the HadCRU web site and emailing them if the info isn&#039;t available.

Luck,
Earle]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #121</p>
<p>Nordic,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a babe in the woods with respect to these datasets.  I haven&#8217;t even figured out how to read the HadCRUT3 gridcell data  into R.  I suggest rooting around the HadCRU web site and emailing them if the info isn&#8217;t available.</p>
<p>Luck,<br />
Earle</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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