<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Atlantic Hurricane Track Versions</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2007/01/18/atlantic-hurricane-track-versions/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/01/18/atlantic-hurricane-track-versions/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 03:49:34 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kenneth Fritsch</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/01/18/atlantic-hurricane-track-versions/#comment-76515</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kenneth Fritsch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 16:01:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1082#comment-76515</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[RE: #503

&lt;blockquote&gt;As long as we are all aware of the arbitrariness of categorization and concentrating on the NATL basin, I think we will be able to rationally discuss the issues.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I should have added, of course, and particularly so after another David Smith object lesson on the subject, a rational discussion must include an acute awareness of the changing capabilities of detection of tropical cyclones over time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE: #503</p>
<blockquote><p>As long as we are all aware of the arbitrariness of categorization and concentrating on the NATL basin, I think we will be able to rationally discuss the issues.</p></blockquote>
<p>I should have added, of course, and particularly so after another David Smith object lesson on the subject, a rational discussion must include an acute awareness of the changing capabilities of detection of tropical cyclones over time.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Judith Curry</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/01/18/atlantic-hurricane-track-versions/#comment-76514</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Judith Curry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 11:23:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1082#comment-76514</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There are new and better ideas on the table for hurricane classification, see esp the following
http://www.ametro.net/~spongey/images/2006EO010003.pdf
(note this is agu pub that normally costs $9, but i managed to find an open copy)

Note, the National Hurricane Center seems to be rejecting any changes at all based on the principle that we shouldn&#039;t change at all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are new and better ideas on the table for hurricane classification, see esp the following<br />
<a href="http://www.ametro.net/~spongey/images/2006EO010003.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.ametro.net/~spongey/images/2006EO010003.pdf</a><br />
(note this is agu pub that normally costs $9, but i managed to find an open copy)</p>
<p>Note, the National Hurricane Center seems to be rejecting any changes at all based on the principle that we shouldn&#8217;t change at all.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bill F</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/01/18/atlantic-hurricane-track-versions/#comment-76513</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill F]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 06:08:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1082#comment-76513</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Actually, the very best way to measure storm strength would be to use something similar to the Richter Scale for earthquakes that would measure the total energy of the storm instead of the instantaneous strength at its maximum.  That would account not only for instantaneous measures such as max windspeed and min central pressure, but also diameter of the hurricane force winds, storm surge, total rainfall, duration at a given intensity, etc.  The measurement of the total storm energy would be a much better way to evaluate if AGW is making storms larger/stronger, but would be nearly impossible to accurately estimate for older storms.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, the very best way to measure storm strength would be to use something similar to the Richter Scale for earthquakes that would measure the total energy of the storm instead of the instantaneous strength at its maximum.  That would account not only for instantaneous measures such as max windspeed and min central pressure, but also diameter of the hurricane force winds, storm surge, total rainfall, duration at a given intensity, etc.  The measurement of the total storm energy would be a much better way to evaluate if AGW is making storms larger/stronger, but would be nearly impossible to accurately estimate for older storms.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kenneth Fritsch</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/01/18/atlantic-hurricane-track-versions/#comment-76512</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kenneth Fritsch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 03:05:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1082#comment-76512</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: #500

&lt;blockquote&gt;Regarding cat 4 and 5 storms, theres an arguable case that the two categories should be lumped together anyway.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

As I recall the categorization of storms was to provide a measure of potential damage they could do to building structures (for the time the categories were initialized).  In fact that is why a category 5 exists and not anything higher because the damage to structures at the time of the introduction to categories a 5 would do in any structure.  Certainly what we want here is something that can be related to the storm itself like an ACE score with maybe a maximum intensity kicker.  As long as we are all aware of the arbitrariness of categorization and concentrating on the NATL basin, I think we will be able to rationally discuss the issues.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: #500</p>
<blockquote><p>Regarding cat 4 and 5 storms, theres an arguable case that the two categories should be lumped together anyway.</p></blockquote>
<p>As I recall the categorization of storms was to provide a measure of potential damage they could do to building structures (for the time the categories were initialized).  In fact that is why a category 5 exists and not anything higher because the damage to structures at the time of the introduction to categories a 5 would do in any structure.  Certainly what we want here is something that can be related to the storm itself like an ACE score with maybe a maximum intensity kicker.  As long as we are all aware of the arbitrariness of categorization and concentrating on the NATL basin, I think we will be able to rationally discuss the issues.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David Smith</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/01/18/atlantic-hurricane-track-versions/#comment-76511</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 02:37:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1082#comment-76511</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve updated the weak storms plot to include 2007 to-date ( &lt;a href=&quot;http://davidsmith.auditblogs.com/files/2007/09/0905071.JPG&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; link &lt;/a&gt; ).

Short-lived tropical storms have a duration of 24 hours or less and are quite weak.

They are hard/impossible to detect without modern technology (like modern satellites and Doppler radar) and were generally missed or ignored in earlier times. As the plot shows their numbers continue to increase, inflating the modern storm count.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve updated the weak storms plot to include 2007 to-date ( <a href="http://davidsmith.auditblogs.com/files/2007/09/0905071.JPG" rel="nofollow"> link </a> ).</p>
<p>Short-lived tropical storms have a duration of 24 hours or less and are quite weak.</p>
<p>They are hard/impossible to detect without modern technology (like modern satellites and Doppler radar) and were generally missed or ignored in earlier times. As the plot shows their numbers continue to increase, inflating the modern storm count.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: SteveSadlov</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/01/18/atlantic-hurricane-track-versions/#comment-76510</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SteveSadlov]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 02:25:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1082#comment-76510</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Member of the &quot;AGW begets more storms&quot; faction at NHC: &quot;Please, pretty please .... may you rise to the level of being countable!&quot; Puh-leeeeeeeeeaaaase!&quot;

A NON-TROPICAL AREA OF LOW PRESSURE LOCATED ABOUT 320 NM
WEST-SOUTHWEST OF BERMUDA NEAR 30N70W...ANALYZED 1008 MB...HAS
GENERALLY CHANGED LITTLE IN STRUCTURE.  A SURFACE TROUGH EXTENDS
SW FROM THE LOW TO THE BAHAMAS NEAR 24N78W.  SATELLITE IMAGES
SHOW AN EXPOSED LOW-LEVEL CENTER WITH MOST OF THE SHOWER AND
TSTMS ACTIVITY STRETCHED OUT TO THE NE OF THE LOW FROM 28N-31N
BETWEEN 66W-69W AND ALONG THE TRAILING TROUGH AXIS.  LITTLE
MOVEMENT IS EXPECTED DURING THE NEXT DAY OR SO.  HURRICANE
HUNTER AIRCRAFT INDICATE THAT THE LOW HAS NOT YET ACQUIRED THE
CHARACTERISTICS OF A SUBTROPICAL OR TROPICAL CYCLONE.  MOST OF
THE ASSOCIATED SHOWER ACTIVITY REMAINS EAST OF THE CENTER WHERE
WINDS TO NEAR GALE FORCE ARE OCCURRING.  THE SYSTEM IS
INTERACTING WITH AN UPPER-LEVEL TROUGH...AND UPPER-LEVEL WINDS
ARE CURRENTLY NOT FAVORABLE FOR DEVELOPMENT.  HOWEVER...
CONDITIONS ARE FORECAST TO BECOME MORE FAVORABLE AS THE LOW
MOVES SLOWLY AND ERRATICALLY...AND A SUBTROPICAL OR TROPICAL
CYCLONE COULD FORM DURING THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Member of the &#8220;AGW begets more storms&#8221; faction at NHC: &#8220;Please, pretty please &#8230;. may you rise to the level of being countable!&#8221; Puh-leeeeeeeeeaaaase!&#8221;</p>
<p>A NON-TROPICAL AREA OF LOW PRESSURE LOCATED ABOUT 320 NM<br />
WEST-SOUTHWEST OF BERMUDA NEAR 30N70W&#8230;ANALYZED 1008 MB&#8230;HAS<br />
GENERALLY CHANGED LITTLE IN STRUCTURE.  A SURFACE TROUGH EXTENDS<br />
SW FROM THE LOW TO THE BAHAMAS NEAR 24N78W.  SATELLITE IMAGES<br />
SHOW AN EXPOSED LOW-LEVEL CENTER WITH MOST OF THE SHOWER AND<br />
TSTMS ACTIVITY STRETCHED OUT TO THE NE OF THE LOW FROM 28N-31N<br />
BETWEEN 66W-69W AND ALONG THE TRAILING TROUGH AXIS.  LITTLE<br />
MOVEMENT IS EXPECTED DURING THE NEXT DAY OR SO.  HURRICANE<br />
HUNTER AIRCRAFT INDICATE THAT THE LOW HAS NOT YET ACQUIRED THE<br />
CHARACTERISTICS OF A SUBTROPICAL OR TROPICAL CYCLONE.  MOST OF<br />
THE ASSOCIATED SHOWER ACTIVITY REMAINS EAST OF THE CENTER WHERE<br />
WINDS TO NEAR GALE FORCE ARE OCCURRING.  THE SYSTEM IS<br />
INTERACTING WITH AN UPPER-LEVEL TROUGH&#8230;AND UPPER-LEVEL WINDS<br />
ARE CURRENTLY NOT FAVORABLE FOR DEVELOPMENT.  HOWEVER&#8230;<br />
CONDITIONS ARE FORECAST TO BECOME MORE FAVORABLE AS THE LOW<br />
MOVES SLOWLY AND ERRATICALLY&#8230;AND A SUBTROPICAL OR TROPICAL<br />
CYCLONE COULD FORM DURING THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David Smith</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/01/18/atlantic-hurricane-track-versions/#comment-76509</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 01:59:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1082#comment-76509</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re #499 That should be 1945 thru the 1960s for aircraft, not 1930 thru 1960s. Before 1945 there was heavy dependence on chance encounters with land or unfortunate ships.

Regarding cat 4 and 5 storms, there&#039;s an arguable case that the two categories should be lumped together anyway. A few years ago, someone (Klotzbach?) found that the transformation from the common weak hurricanes into severe (cat 4 and 5) storms tends to be sudden rather than gradual. The central pressure suddenly &quot;bombs&quot; (rapid deepening). See Dean and Felix of 2007 for examples.

Cat 4 and 5 storms may be somewhat structurally different versus their weaker cousins, maybe some upper-air feature. My conjecture.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #499 That should be 1945 thru the 1960s for aircraft, not 1930 thru 1960s. Before 1945 there was heavy dependence on chance encounters with land or unfortunate ships.</p>
<p>Regarding cat 4 and 5 storms, there&#8217;s an arguable case that the two categories should be lumped together anyway. A few years ago, someone (Klotzbach?) found that the transformation from the common weak hurricanes into severe (cat 4 and 5) storms tends to be sudden rather than gradual. The central pressure suddenly &#8220;bombs&#8221; (rapid deepening). See Dean and Felix of 2007 for examples.</p>
<p>Cat 4 and 5 storms may be somewhat structurally different versus their weaker cousins, maybe some upper-air feature. My conjecture.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David Smith</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/01/18/atlantic-hurricane-track-versions/#comment-76508</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 01:01:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1082#comment-76508</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[RE #498 I should have summarized the 1930 thru 1960s as being heavily-dependent on the skill of the aircraft crew to find the maximum wind and to apply appropriate correction factors. Sometimes they did, sometimes they did not. They did their best but their technology was quite limited compared to today.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE #498 I should have summarized the 1930 thru 1960s as being heavily-dependent on the skill of the aircraft crew to find the maximum wind and to apply appropriate correction factors. Sometimes they did, sometimes they did not. They did their best but their technology was quite limited compared to today.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David Smith</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/01/18/atlantic-hurricane-track-versions/#comment-76507</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 00:49:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1082#comment-76507</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re #486

Here&#039;s some background:

1. Dropwindsondes (GPS-equipped dropsondes capable of excellent windspeed measurement) have been in use since 1998.
2. Satellite imagery useable for Dvorak-type hurricane intensity estimates began in the 1970s.
4. SFMR began operational deployment a couple of years ago (2006 I believe) and may not be fully deployed yet.
5. GPS dropsondes, capable of reporting whether they landed in the hurricane eye or not, have been around since the 1990s.

All of these were obviously not around in the 1930s thru 1960s. But, what about aircraft?

In the mid-1940s aircraft began to (intentionally) fly into hurricanes and to report maximum &quot;flight-level wind&quot;. There have been several changes in this -

a. The pilot has to find the location of the maximum wind, which is considerably easier today with modern aircraft radar, satellite support and storm knowledge. Otherwise he misses the peak.
b. &quot;Flight-level&quot; is typically 10,000 feet above the surface, a height which experiences different windspeeds than exist at the surface. So, a correction factor has to be applied. The NHC has used various correction factors over the years and tends to use higher factors (= higher windspeed estimates) in recent years.

Even though aircraft were used in 1945-1959, the routine use of 0.9 flight-level correction factors, an important part of wind estimates, didn&#039;t begin until the 1980s to 1990s.

So, the answer to the question posed in #486 is, &quot;None of the above&quot;.

The way we measure storms today is much different from the way we measured storms during the last Atlantic peak. Today we measure more-frequently and more-thoroughly. The more frequently we sample and the more-thoroughly we sample the greater our chances of catching the peak intensity.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #486</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s some background:</p>
<p>1. Dropwindsondes (GPS-equipped dropsondes capable of excellent windspeed measurement) have been in use since 1998.<br />
2. Satellite imagery useable for Dvorak-type hurricane intensity estimates began in the 1970s.<br />
4. SFMR began operational deployment a couple of years ago (2006 I believe) and may not be fully deployed yet.<br />
5. GPS dropsondes, capable of reporting whether they landed in the hurricane eye or not, have been around since the 1990s.</p>
<p>All of these were obviously not around in the 1930s thru 1960s. But, what about aircraft?</p>
<p>In the mid-1940s aircraft began to (intentionally) fly into hurricanes and to report maximum &#8220;flight-level wind&#8221;. There have been several changes in this -</p>
<p>a. The pilot has to find the location of the maximum wind, which is considerably easier today with modern aircraft radar, satellite support and storm knowledge. Otherwise he misses the peak.<br />
b. &#8220;Flight-level&#8221; is typically 10,000 feet above the surface, a height which experiences different windspeeds than exist at the surface. So, a correction factor has to be applied. The NHC has used various correction factors over the years and tends to use higher factors (= higher windspeed estimates) in recent years.</p>
<p>Even though aircraft were used in 1945-1959, the routine use of 0.9 flight-level correction factors, an important part of wind estimates, didn&#8217;t begin until the 1980s to 1990s.</p>
<p>So, the answer to the question posed in #486 is, &#8220;None of the above&#8221;.</p>
<p>The way we measure storms today is much different from the way we measured storms during the last Atlantic peak. Today we measure more-frequently and more-thoroughly. The more frequently we sample and the more-thoroughly we sample the greater our chances of catching the peak intensity.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bill F</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/01/18/atlantic-hurricane-track-versions/#comment-76506</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill F]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 23:11:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1082#comment-76506</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would also point out in regards to the distinction between Cat 4 and 5, that the threshold between the two seems to be right at the point where the eye of a hurricane becomes unstable and subject to more frequent eyewall replacement cycles.  As a result, it is rare for a hurricane to maintain Cat 5 strength for longer than about 24-36 hours.  As a result, and mindful of David&#039;s point about changes in technology, I am dubious of our ability to distinguish between cat 4 and cat 5 storms prior to the last 35 years or so.  The combined counts of cat 4 and cat 5 storms in previous years is pretty informative in pointing out the importance of our ability to determine that threshold when evaluating how unprecedented any recent activity has been.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would also point out in regards to the distinction between Cat 4 and 5, that the threshold between the two seems to be right at the point where the eye of a hurricane becomes unstable and subject to more frequent eyewall replacement cycles.  As a result, it is rare for a hurricane to maintain Cat 5 strength for longer than about 24-36 hours.  As a result, and mindful of David&#8217;s point about changes in technology, I am dubious of our ability to distinguish between cat 4 and cat 5 storms prior to the last 35 years or so.  The combined counts of cat 4 and cat 5 storms in previous years is pretty informative in pointing out the importance of our ability to determine that threshold when evaluating how unprecedented any recent activity has been.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

