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	<title>Comments on: East Anglia Refusal Letter</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2007/03/12/east-anglia-refusal-letter/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/03/12/east-anglia-refusal-letter/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
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		<title>By: Climate Audit and NOAA FOI Policy &#171; Climate Audit</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/03/12/east-anglia-refusal-letter/#comment-317420</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Climate Audit and NOAA FOI Policy &#171; Climate Audit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Dec 2011 17:30:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1240#comment-317420</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] first refusal and my concurrent request for re-consideration on the grounds of unresponsiveness on March 12, 2007, their partial acquiescence on April 3, 2007, my follow-up on the part where they remained [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] first refusal and my concurrent request for re-consideration on the grounds of unresponsiveness on March 12, 2007, their partial acquiescence on April 3, 2007, my follow-up on the part where they remained [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Data availability in climate science: the case of Jones et al 1990 and Nature &#171; Shub Niggurath Climate</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/03/12/east-anglia-refusal-letter/#comment-247276</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Data availability in climate science: the case of Jones et al 1990 and Nature &#171; Shub Niggurath Climate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Dec 2010 18:57:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1240#comment-247276</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] [11]         S. McIntyre. (2007). East Anglia Refusal Letter.                  Available: http://climateaudit.org/2007/03/12/east-anglia-refusal-letter/ [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] [11]         S. McIntyre. (2007). East Anglia Refusal Letter.                  Available: <a href="http://climateaudit.org/2007/03/12/east-anglia-refusal-letter/" rel="nofollow">http://climateaudit.org/2007/03/12/east-anglia-refusal-letter/</a> [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: The FOI Myth #2 &#171; Climate Audit</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/03/12/east-anglia-refusal-letter/#comment-213410</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The FOI Myth #2 &#171; Climate Audit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 01:36:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1240#comment-213410</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] to repudiate the request by making untrue statements to support a claim for FOI exemption. In its initial response, CRU stated (1) that the requested data (even station lists for Jones et al 1990) were already [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to repudiate the request by making untrue statements to support a claim for FOI exemption. In its initial response, CRU stated (1) that the requested data (even station lists for Jones et al 1990) were already [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Follow the Money.... - Debate Politics Forums</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/03/12/east-anglia-refusal-letter/#comment-81412</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Follow the Money.... - Debate Politics Forums]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2007 19:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1240#comment-81412</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] in Bold Headlines, Claims  Models, Methods, Software » Blog Archive » A GISS ModelE code fragment Climate Audit - by Steve McIntyre » East Anglia Refusal Letter Climate Audit - by Steve McIntyre » FOI Request to Phil Jones Climate Audit - by Steve McIntyre » [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in Bold Headlines, Claims  Models, Methods, Software » Blog Archive » A GISS ModelE code fragment Climate Audit &#8211; by Steve McIntyre » East Anglia Refusal Letter Climate Audit &#8211; by Steve McIntyre » FOI Request to Phil Jones Climate Audit &#8211; by Steve McIntyre » [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jean S</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/03/12/east-anglia-refusal-letter/#comment-81411</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jean S]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 09:15:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1240#comment-81411</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[py: &lt;blockquote&gt;Hopefully the marine data is of better quality ?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Hmmm, see http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1276]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>py:<br />
<blockquote>Hopefully the marine data is of better quality ?</p></blockquote>
<p>Hmmm, see <a href="http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1276" rel="nofollow">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1276</a></p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: py</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/03/12/east-anglia-refusal-letter/#comment-81410</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[py]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 06:07:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1240#comment-81410</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the explanation. It is really useful as I&#039;m still trying to get a feel for what the data is like. Presumably the asymmetry will introduce some sort of bias in the overall trend given that the asymmetry lies in the &#039;gross&#039; adjustments that are in a 20 year period.

Given that the paper states that all of the station data has been adjusted, I&#039;m still puzzled as to why both raw and adjusted measurements for each station haven&#039;t been stored. I guess after reading this blog for a while, I shouldn&#039;t be ;)

Hopefully the marine data is of better quality ?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the explanation. It is really useful as I&#8217;m still trying to get a feel for what the data is like. Presumably the asymmetry will introduce some sort of bias in the overall trend given that the asymmetry lies in the &#8216;gross&#8217; adjustments that are in a 20 year period.</p>
<p>Given that the paper states that all of the station data has been adjusted, I&#8217;m still puzzled as to why both raw and adjusted measurements for each station haven&#8217;t been stored. I guess after reading this blog for a while, I shouldn&#8217;t be <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Hopefully the marine data is of better quality ?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: UC</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/03/12/east-anglia-refusal-letter/#comment-81409</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[UC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 08:39:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1240#comment-81409</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Assuming that the stations for which the homogenisation correction is known can be considered a random sample from the total number of stations, why isnt the distribution normal and not the bimodal distribution as plotted?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That&#039;s because of undetected adjustments, here&#039;s how it goes

1) There is a 1940-60 period where thermometers were moved to out of town airport. That necessitates negative adjustments for earlier record (take the UHI effect out).

2) There are some positive adjustments (probably due to recent rural cooling, hard to tell because only histogram is shown).

3) As you all know, the central limit theorem requires zero-mean bell-shaped distribution for everything. Thus, the bimodal histogram of known adjustments represents such distribution, but small values are missing. The bimodal histogram is not balanced, but



&lt;blockquote&gt;this asymmetry is small compared with the typical adjustment, and is difficult to quantify&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That is, take hypothesized adjustment histogram, subtract observed adjustment histogram, make it zero mean, and you&#039;ll get the uncertainty. All clear? :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Assuming that the stations for which the homogenisation correction is known can be considered a random sample from the total number of stations, why isnt the distribution normal and not the bimodal distribution as plotted?</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s because of undetected adjustments, here&#8217;s how it goes</p>
<p>1) There is a 1940-60 period where thermometers were moved to out of town airport. That necessitates negative adjustments for earlier record (take the UHI effect out).</p>
<p>2) There are some positive adjustments (probably due to recent rural cooling, hard to tell because only histogram is shown).</p>
<p>3) As you all know, the central limit theorem requires zero-mean bell-shaped distribution for everything. Thus, the bimodal histogram of known adjustments represents such distribution, but small values are missing. The bimodal histogram is not balanced, but</p>
<blockquote><p>this asymmetry is small compared with the typical adjustment, and is difficult to quantify</p></blockquote>
<p>That is, take hypothesized adjustment histogram, subtract observed adjustment histogram, make it zero mean, and you&#8217;ll get the uncertainty. All clear? <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: py</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/03/12/east-anglia-refusal-letter/#comment-81408</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[py]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 16:12:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1240#comment-81408</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Presumably the thinking here is that for most of the station data, the homogenisation corrections are small. It is quite an assumption though, seeing as the only data that they do have where the homogenisation correction is known, the data show something different (as in the histogram).

Assuming that the stations for which the homogenisation correction is known can be considered a random sample from the total number of stations, why isn&#039;t the distribution normal and not the bimodal distribution as plotted?

Or am I missing something basic?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Presumably the thinking here is that for most of the station data, the homogenisation corrections are small. It is quite an assumption though, seeing as the only data that they do have where the homogenisation correction is known, the data show something different (as in the histogram).</p>
<p>Assuming that the stations for which the homogenisation correction is known can be considered a random sample from the total number of stations, why isn&#8217;t the distribution normal and not the bimodal distribution as plotted?</p>
<p>Or am I missing something basic?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Geoff Sherrington</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/03/12/east-anglia-refusal-letter/#comment-81407</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Geoff Sherrington]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 07:06:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1240#comment-81407</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re Jones&#039; Australian data

I have not had time to read all of the thread above, but will repost an email to me from Phil Jones from 2006. His email follows:

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Phil Jones
  To: sherro@bigpond.net.au
  Cc: Sheppard Sylvia (SCI) ks918
  Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 4:20 AM
  Subject: FW: Early global temperature data
 Dear Geoffrey,
      We no longer have the Australian station date we were using in the
  early 1980s. At that time we had a limited network. In the 1990s,
  the Australian Bureau of Meteorology began issuing a lot more
  station data each month. Up to that time it had been about 40
  stations internationally. Through contacts with personnel in Melbourne,
  we got access to the back data from all the new stations, so added
  these. In order to use temperature data, we need historic series
  with at least the 1961-90 base period. We now have access to over
100 stations from BoM in real time.
      I wish more countries would release more data in real time like
  Australia. Some have, but not that many - and none release extra
  data in Africa, South America and southern Asia. We have
  managed to get extra historic data though in South Africa, Argentina
  and Brazil. We got the latter, though, on the agreement that we
  didn&#039;t pass the data onto others, but we can use them in our
  gridded data.  This condition also applies to a number of
  European countries - again only historic data, no real time. Australia
  is the only country to make additional data (additional to the about 1500
  exchanged by Met Services) to us in real time.
       I have looked back at a publication where we adjusted station
  records for homogeneity in the mid-1980s. We didn&#039;t omit any
  Australian series then, but adjusted the following sites:

  Darwin, Townsville, Thursday Island, Gladstone, Forrest,
  Adelaide, Sydney and Norfolk Island. We still have these adjustments.

    In the mid-1990s, we compared our Australian temperature with
  a series developed by Neville Nicholls (then of BMRC, he has retired
  in the last few months and now works at Monash) and a student
  he had. Over the period from 1901-1992 we had a correlation of
  our two series of 0.92 and with no difference in trend over these
  92 years.   This work was done before we got the additional
  station data (so in effect we had about 40 stations, whereas
  Neville and the student had almost 200). I can&#039;t recall the student&#039;s
  name (Simon ?).

    So, I can&#039;t send you anything. We don&#039;t have the earlier station
  data now.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re Jones&#8217; Australian data</p>
<p>I have not had time to read all of the thread above, but will repost an email to me from Phil Jones from 2006. His email follows:</p>
<p>  &#8212;&#8211; Original Message &#8212;&#8211;<br />
  From: Phil Jones<br />
  To: <a href="mailto:sherro@bigpond.net.au">sherro@bigpond.net.au</a><br />
  Cc: Sheppard Sylvia (SCI) ks918<br />
  Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 4:20 AM<br />
  Subject: FW: Early global temperature data<br />
 Dear Geoffrey,<br />
      We no longer have the Australian station date we were using in the<br />
  early 1980s. At that time we had a limited network. In the 1990s,<br />
  the Australian Bureau of Meteorology began issuing a lot more<br />
  station data each month. Up to that time it had been about 40<br />
  stations internationally. Through contacts with personnel in Melbourne,<br />
  we got access to the back data from all the new stations, so added<br />
  these. In order to use temperature data, we need historic series<br />
  with at least the 1961-90 base period. We now have access to over<br />
100 stations from BoM in real time.<br />
      I wish more countries would release more data in real time like<br />
  Australia. Some have, but not that many &#8211; and none release extra<br />
  data in Africa, South America and southern Asia. We have<br />
  managed to get extra historic data though in South Africa, Argentina<br />
  and Brazil. We got the latter, though, on the agreement that we<br />
  didn&#8217;t pass the data onto others, but we can use them in our<br />
  gridded data.  This condition also applies to a number of<br />
  European countries &#8211; again only historic data, no real time. Australia<br />
  is the only country to make additional data (additional to the about 1500<br />
  exchanged by Met Services) to us in real time.<br />
       I have looked back at a publication where we adjusted station<br />
  records for homogeneity in the mid-1980s. We didn&#8217;t omit any<br />
  Australian series then, but adjusted the following sites:</p>
<p>  Darwin, Townsville, Thursday Island, Gladstone, Forrest,<br />
  Adelaide, Sydney and Norfolk Island. We still have these adjustments.</p>
<p>    In the mid-1990s, we compared our Australian temperature with<br />
  a series developed by Neville Nicholls (then of BMRC, he has retired<br />
  in the last few months and now works at Monash) and a student<br />
  he had. Over the period from 1901-1992 we had a correlation of<br />
  our two series of 0.92 and with no difference in trend over these<br />
  92 years.   This work was done before we got the additional<br />
  station data (so in effect we had about 40 stations, whereas<br />
  Neville and the student had almost 200). I can&#8217;t recall the student&#8217;s<br />
  name (Simon ?).</p>
<p>    So, I can&#8217;t send you anything. We don&#8217;t have the earlier station<br />
  data now.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: UC</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/03/12/east-anglia-refusal-letter/#comment-81406</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[UC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 04:56:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1240#comment-81406</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Talk about throwing away information!&lt;/blockquote&gt;



Yep, take N samples from i.i.d gaussian, sort the data in ascending order, sort the data in descending order.. Histogram wont change. Adjust &#039;40s data down, and some other period data up, and you&#039;ll get a bimodal histogram. I&#039;m a bit worried about this step:

&lt;blockquote&gt;So the distribution of adjustments is bimodal, and can be interpreted as a bell-shaped distribution with most of the central, small, values missing.&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Talk about throwing away information!</p></blockquote>
<p>Yep, take N samples from i.i.d gaussian, sort the data in ascending order, sort the data in descending order.. Histogram wont change. Adjust &#8217;40s data down, and some other period data up, and you&#8217;ll get a bimodal histogram. I&#8217;m a bit worried about this step:</p>
<blockquote><p>So the distribution of adjustments is bimodal, and can be interpreted as a bell-shaped distribution with most of the central, small, values missing.</p></blockquote>
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