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	<title>Comments on: Marysville and Orland Revisited</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2007/07/31/marysville-and-orland-revisited/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/07/31/marysville-and-orland-revisited/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Sam Urbinto</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/07/31/marysville-and-orland-revisited/#comment-96946</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sam Urbinto]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 16:40:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1844#comment-96946</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Which is why the auditing is going on.  Trust is earned by providing replicability and welcoming the replication.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which is why the auditing is going on.  Trust is earned by providing replicability and welcoming the replication.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dave Dardinger</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/07/31/marysville-and-orland-revisited/#comment-96945</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Dardinger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 13:57:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1844#comment-96945</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[re: #35

I think the mindset of the adjusters is that the current temperatures are by definition correct and that therefore it&#039;s necessary to adjust the past to match the present.  Since they won&#039;t entertain the possibility that the current readings are biased, they have to change readings that normally would be considered good as gold.  Since this is all done below the radar screen and they don&#039;t have to justify their preconceptions, it hasn&#039;t been much discussed except by &quot;deniers&quot; up to now.  This is one reason surfacestations.org is so important.  Regardless of what sort of bins are found to throw individual stations into, people will finally wake up to the fact that the surface record needs to be examined in detail and questionable procedures changed or justified.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: #35</p>
<p>I think the mindset of the adjusters is that the current temperatures are by definition correct and that therefore it&#8217;s necessary to adjust the past to match the present.  Since they won&#8217;t entertain the possibility that the current readings are biased, they have to change readings that normally would be considered good as gold.  Since this is all done below the radar screen and they don&#8217;t have to justify their preconceptions, it hasn&#8217;t been much discussed except by &#8220;deniers&#8221; up to now.  This is one reason surfacestations.org is so important.  Regardless of what sort of bins are found to throw individual stations into, people will finally wake up to the fact that the surface record needs to be examined in detail and questionable procedures changed or justified.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: pk</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/07/31/marysville-and-orland-revisited/#comment-96944</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pk]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 12:44:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1844#comment-96944</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#34, thank you.

I&#039;m amazed that the largest overall adjustments have been made to the unlit stations, the largest category, and that about half of the 20th century temperature increase can be attributed to the adjustments.  I see that the TOB and Max/Min and SHAP Data adjustments are larger for unlit stations than for peri-urban or urban stations.  This magic just doesn&#039;t make sense to me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#34, thank you.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m amazed that the largest overall adjustments have been made to the unlit stations, the largest category, and that about half of the 20th century temperature increase can be attributed to the adjustments.  I see that the TOB and Max/Min and SHAP Data adjustments are larger for unlit stations than for peri-urban or urban stations.  This magic just doesn&#8217;t make sense to me.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: steven mosher</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/07/31/marysville-and-orland-revisited/#comment-96943</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[steven mosher]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 01:44:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1844#comment-96943</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[RE 32.

 Hansen does this in his 2001 paper, I believe.

 However, what you want to look at  is each and every adjustment. We have to reverse engineer the
 process, so a global report is of no consequence.

 You can find his 2001 paper at Goddard. I wont link. too lazt. Just google Giss temp
 click on publications or authors and select Hansen

 browse around in the virtual stacks]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE 32.</p>
<p> Hansen does this in his 2001 paper, I believe.</p>
<p> However, what you want to look at  is each and every adjustment. We have to reverse engineer the<br />
 process, so a global report is of no consequence.</p>
<p> You can find his 2001 paper at Goddard. I wont link. too lazt. Just google Giss temp<br />
 click on publications or authors and select Hansen</p>
<p> browse around in the virtual stacks</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Willis Eschenbach</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/07/31/marysville-and-orland-revisited/#comment-96942</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Willis Eschenbach]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2007 18:29:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1844#comment-96942</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sean, thank you for your &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1844#comment-123173&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;post&lt;/a&gt; stating:

&lt;blockquote&gt;#25 - The adjustment doesn&#039;t seem completely unreasonable as a means of generating a corrected view of a contaminated sample, given a population of correlated samples. Take the mean trend, and encourage your target sample to fit the same trend.

That would be a good approach if what was required were an improved accuracy for the one site where the collected data had been contaminated. I believe that Steve is using a variation on this approach to identify specific stations which have been over fitted.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The problem is not that they have adjusted Marysville downward (in line with your suggestion), but that they have also adjusted Orland upwards ... what&#039;s up with that?

w.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean, thank you for your <a href="http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1844#comment-123173" rel="nofollow">post</a> stating:</p>
<blockquote><p>#25 &#8211; The adjustment doesn&#8217;t seem completely unreasonable as a means of generating a corrected view of a contaminated sample, given a population of correlated samples. Take the mean trend, and encourage your target sample to fit the same trend.</p>
<p>That would be a good approach if what was required were an improved accuracy for the one site where the collected data had been contaminated. I believe that Steve is using a variation on this approach to identify specific stations which have been over fitted.</p></blockquote>
<p>The problem is not that they have adjusted Marysville downward (in line with your suggestion), but that they have also adjusted Orland upwards &#8230; what&#8217;s up with that?</p>
<p>w.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: pk</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/07/31/marysville-and-orland-revisited/#comment-96941</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pk]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2007 18:01:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1844#comment-96941</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Has anyone ever calculated the average global adjustment similarly to the average global temperature?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has anyone ever calculated the average global adjustment similarly to the average global temperature?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: MrPete</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/07/31/marysville-and-orland-revisited/#comment-96940</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MrPete]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2007 00:35:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1844#comment-96940</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[(#27,28 -- his email is already spam toast: he&#039;s posted it numerous times on web pages. It gets 40+ google hits. Not that I disagree; this is to emphasize: folks, don&#039;t post email addresses in the clear! Do it once, and your mailbox will quickly receive all the junk you can imagine.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(#27,28 &#8212; his email is already spam toast: he&#8217;s posted it numerous times on web pages. It gets 40+ google hits. Not that I disagree; this is to emphasize: folks, don&#8217;t post email addresses in the clear! Do it once, and your mailbox will quickly receive all the junk you can imagine.)</p>
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		<title>By: jerry magnan</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/07/31/marysville-and-orland-revisited/#comment-96939</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jerry magnan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Aug 2007 20:56:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1844#comment-96939</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think it was on either Anthony Watts&#039; site or in the Surface Stations site where he was able to provide an interactive map of Australia&#039;s surface stations.  I looked in on a bunch and it looked like they were near airports but at least they looked they were way out in remote fields.  They also looked like they had antenna systems, possibly for remote recording, which could be giving more reliable info.

The point is that Australian continental mean temperature did show an increase in temperature with time.  But now I&#039;m wondering - based on the apparent UHI effect we&#039;re seeing here which is muddying up the waters, is it possible that the Australian data is being tweaked as ours are to show that increase?  Particularly since I&#039;ve read a number of times that the
Southern Hemisphere is not heating up.  So why the temperature increase?  Or could it be the temperature increase was accurate, at least for the Australian continent?

I&#039;m going to try to tap back into that site again.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it was on either Anthony Watts&#8217; site or in the Surface Stations site where he was able to provide an interactive map of Australia&#8217;s surface stations.  I looked in on a bunch and it looked like they were near airports but at least they looked they were way out in remote fields.  They also looked like they had antenna systems, possibly for remote recording, which could be giving more reliable info.</p>
<p>The point is that Australian continental mean temperature did show an increase in temperature with time.  But now I&#8217;m wondering &#8211; based on the apparent UHI effect we&#8217;re seeing here which is muddying up the waters, is it possible that the Australian data is being tweaked as ours are to show that increase?  Particularly since I&#8217;ve read a number of times that the<br />
Southern Hemisphere is not heating up.  So why the temperature increase?  Or could it be the temperature increase was accurate, at least for the Australian continent?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m going to try to tap back into that site again.</p>
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		<title>By: David Ermer</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/07/31/marysville-and-orland-revisited/#comment-96938</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Ermer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Aug 2007 20:55:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1844#comment-96938</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Not only are the graphs strikingly similar, the trend rates are nearly identical. &lt;/blockquote&gt;


Was this a quote from a scientist or an alchemist? Sounds more like the later.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Not only are the graphs strikingly similar, the trend rates are nearly identical. </p></blockquote>
<p>Was this a quote from a scientist or an alchemist? Sounds more like the later.</p>
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		<title>By: steven mosher</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/07/31/marysville-and-orland-revisited/#comment-96937</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[steven mosher]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Aug 2007 18:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1844#comment-96937</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[re27.

 my bad earle. I thought I clipped the reference down to the abstract only.

 SteveM can snip without complaint from me]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re27.</p>
<p> my bad earle. I thought I clipped the reference down to the abstract only.</p>
<p> SteveM can snip without complaint from me</p>
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