Comments on: IPCC AR4 and the Return of Chucky – He's Baaack!

By: Shollenberger’s Technical Review of Mann’s recent book | Watts Up With That?

Sun, 11 Mar 2012 16:45:08 +0000

[...] was made up of data the National Academy of Scientists said should be avoided. Despite this, it was included in the latest IPCC [...]

By: THE IPCC A FLAWED ORGANISATION |

THE IPCC A FLAWED ORGANISATION | — Tue, 15 Feb 2011 18:15:03 +0000

[...] ICC AR4 and the Return of Chucky – He’s Baaack! [...]

By: Did IPCC Review Editor Mitchell Do His Job? « Climate Audit

Did IPCC Review Editor Mitchell Do His Job? « Climate Audit — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 13:49:08 +0000

[...] among other things, the deletion of post-1960 Briffa reconstruction results – see for example here here here, where the lead author (Briffa) justified the deletion of adverse post-1960 results from [...]

By: Tom

Tom — Wed, 21 Nov 2007 13:19:40 +0000

In wet places, the temperature correlation may be real, but in our places which border deserts and semi arid lands, its moisture that is the main arbiter of success of failure.

I have spent my 30 year career as a farmer in Western Europe. In all relevant cases, growth of plants takes place in the warm seasons, (hence tree rings). Moisture availability is therefore always the limiting factor; cool or hot, once the water runs out, that’s it. Did you ever see the experiment (I think it was David Bellamy) where a large tree was cut down and hydraulically lifted into a cattle trough fed with water by a fire engine and it’s team. They could not supply water fast enough to overcome transpiration from the tree. No water availability at tree root exploitation depth in any soil except arguably within artesian zones, could supply water faster than a fire engine pump. Therefore even in wet places, the correlation cannot be realistic.

By: bender

bender — Fri, 26 Oct 2007 23:03:35 +0000

re #15
more snow, better growth … what’s up with that?

By: jae

jae — Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:29:59 +0000

And so, when Leslie mentioned that some dendroclimatologists think tree growth can be related more to temperature than precipitation, the room was filled with incredulous laughter even from the ardent Gore supporters, etc..

LOL, that’s what I’ve been saying here for two years.

By: SteveSadlov

SteveSadlov — Fri, 26 Oct 2007 19:04:50 +0000

RE: #13 and 15 – The problem is that the standard “understanding” of dedroclimatology is biased from the perspective of people in Europe and Eastern North America (where most institutions of higher learning are located). Even on these threads, we get people calling BCP areas “alpine” in the sense of the Alps or upper Apalachian spots. Places at altitudes which are considered “the alpine zone” here out west, are in some ways like ones in wetter and more temperate climes but in many ways they are not. In the case of the White Mountains (the ones in Inyo County, Calif) what’s below “timber line” is a very open wet – dry woodland mixed with scrub, very, very different from what one finds in Zermat or New Hampshire. In wet places, the temperature correlation may be real, but in our places which border deserts and semi arid lands, it’s moisture that is the main arbiter of success of failure.

By: Dennis Wingo

Dennis Wingo — Fri, 26 Oct 2007 17:48:12 +0000

Steve

When I spent a lot of time in the Las Vegas area in 2004 I had a chance to do a lot of hiking in the high mountains (around 9000 ft at Mt. Charleston). Near Lee mountain up there were some trees that had just been cut down. They clearly showed an increase in tree ring diameter in recent decades. I also found trees that had been cut decades ago that do not show the expanded rings. There is snow line data and temperature data available up there as well as for similar areas around Mammoth Mountain in the California High Sierras. I have spent a lot of time in the Sierras in the last 25 years and it is highly unlikely that there have been any temperature trends to explain the massive increase in yearly tree ring diameter at those altitudes. The ring diameter increases are more than double in most cases and are consistent. There have been several really snowy winters up there but the trees still have expanded ring growth.

By: DavidE

DavidE — Fri, 26 Oct 2007 16:55:38 +0000

Re: 12 With regard to your challenge: It doesn’t work that way. For instance, you might say that jelly beans are the primary cause of cancer but I point out that your conclusion based upon a study of 20 kids in the cancer center is inconclusive because you didn’t test any kids without cancer. Your challenge to me to prove what causes cancer does nothing to bolster your position that jelly beans cause cancer. It is a challenge or comment intended to stifle debate.

By: MrPete

MrPete — Fri, 26 Oct 2007 10:04:11 +0000

Perhaps we can stick to the tree-ring topic of the posting.
Yesterday, my wife gave a mini-presentation to her local Master Gardeners group on “what I did last summer.”
The group is linked by a deeply practical, science-based, understanding of the issues surrounding plant growth. These folks answer horticulture questions every day on behalf of the state agricultural extension… and do so for ordinary citizens who live in Colorado — at 1, 1.5 or even 2 mile altitudes. If it hasn’t been proven through research, they don’t even mention it.
And so, when Leslie mentioned that some dendroclimatologists think tree growth can be related more to temperature than precipitation, the room was filled with incredulous laughter — even from the ardent Gore supporters, etc..
They honestly couldn’t believe it, until Leslie reminded them that such perspectives are coming from people who aren’t biologists or master gardeners.
The crowd was fascinated that their own level of expertise might be useful in helping decode the puzzle of climate change.

[Update: just to keep the record straight, Leslie's exact statement was that some dendroclimatologists think precipitation might not be the most important enabling/limiting factor in tree growth. (She was trying to be diplomatic and not emphasize the temp mistake too much.) ]