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	<title>Comments on: Al Gore and &quot;Dr Thompson&#039;s Thermometer&quot; #2</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2007/11/10/al-gore-and-dr-thompsons-thermometer-2/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/11/10/al-gore-and-dr-thompsons-thermometer-2/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 19 Jun 2013 12:07:43 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Mann on Irreproducible Results in Thompson (PNAS 2006) &#171; Climate Audit</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/11/10/al-gore-and-dr-thompsons-thermometer-2/#comment-327914</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mann on Irreproducible Results in Thompson (PNAS 2006) &#171; Climate Audit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2012 17:11:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2335#comment-327914</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] together with the recent instrumental record so as to make them appear to be a single series. See Al Gore and &#8220;Dr thompson&#8217;s Thermometer&#8221; #2 (CA 11/10/07). During the question period after an OSU seminar on Jan 11, 2008, Thompson, who had [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] together with the recent instrumental record so as to make them appear to be a single series. See Al Gore and &#8220;Dr thompson&#8217;s Thermometer&#8221; #2 (CA 11/10/07). During the question period after an OSU seminar on Jan 11, 2008, Thompson, who had [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mann-erisms: Where did we get that idea? &#171; Watts Up With That?</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/11/10/al-gore-and-dr-thompsons-thermometer-2/#comment-215060</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mann-erisms: Where did we get that idea? &#171; Watts Up With That?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 19:31:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2335#comment-215060</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] of this was worked out in November 2007 on Climate Audit but for some reason &#8220;Faye Flam&#8221; can&#8217;t get a clue. What do you expect from [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of this was worked out in November 2007 on Climate Audit but for some reason &#8220;Faye Flam&#8221; can&#8217;t get a clue. What do you expect from [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/11/10/al-gore-and-dr-thompsons-thermometer-2/#comment-208141</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 12:56:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2335#comment-208141</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;They can also measure the exact temperature of the atmosphere each year by calculating the ratio of different isotopes of oxygen which provides an ingenious and highly accurate thermometer&quot; As a practicising engineer who designs precision measurement equipment I find this statement particularly annoying. The &#039;exact&#039; temperature? Gore has obviously never heard of measurement uncertainty.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;They can also measure the exact temperature of the atmosphere each year by calculating the ratio of different isotopes of oxygen which provides an ingenious and highly accurate thermometer&#8221; As a practicising engineer who designs precision measurement equipment I find this statement particularly annoying. The &#8216;exact&#8217; temperature? Gore has obviously never heard of measurement uncertainty.</p>
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		<title>By: Calibrating Dr. Thompson&#8217;s Z-Mometer &#171; Climate Audit [Welcome to our new home!]</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/11/10/al-gore-and-dr-thompsons-thermometer-2/#comment-207927</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Calibrating Dr. Thompson&#8217;s Z-Mometer &#171; Climate Audit [Welcome to our new home!]]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 19:07:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2335#comment-207927</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] As it happens, the graph that Gore presented really was the MBH HS, spliced together with an instrumental record as if they were a single series, and has nothing to do with Thompson&#8217;s ice core research. See &#8220;Al Gore and &#8216;Dr. Thompson&#8217;s Thermometer&#8217;&#8221;. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] As it happens, the graph that Gore presented really was the MBH HS, spliced together with an instrumental record as if they were a single series, and has nothing to do with Thompson&#8217;s ice core research. See &#8220;Al Gore and &#8216;Dr. Thompson&#8217;s Thermometer&#8217;&#8221;. [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ferdinand Engelbeen</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/11/10/al-gore-and-dr-thompsons-thermometer-2/#comment-116607</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ferdinand Engelbeen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 21:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2335#comment-116607</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just back from a few days at Champagne/France (yes, tried a glass, that is about my maximum of alcohol intake per month), I have read the several attempts to look at the aerosols... As that is one of my favorite topics, a few remarks:

There is a huge difference between tropospheric/human made aerosols which are reaching at most up to the inversion layer (a few thousand meter) and volcanic aerosols which are injected into the stratosphere (10 km and higher):

- The lifetime of tropospheric aerosols is average 4 days, most is raining out or drops out even as dry deposit. The lifetime of stratospheric aerosols is months (for fine ash) to years (for SO2), before dropping out. That means that most of the human-made aerosols are found at a few thousand km in the main wind direction from the sources (like US aerosols in Greenland and UK &quot;acid rain&quot; in Scandinavia).

- There is a strong barrier between the tropospheric NH and SH: the ITCZ. Even for non-condensing gases (like CO2), there is a lag of 6 months to 1 year between the NH and SH to pass the barrier. That means that CO2 levels at the South Pole are near the same as in Barrow (as yearly averages), but with a lag of about a year. For aerosols, where about 90% is emitted in the NH, most is rained out before even reaching the SH... Some indication (to be taken with a grain of salt) can be found at the IPCC (2001) report: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/fig6-7.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/fig6-7.htm&lt;/a&gt;

Thus it is very unlikely that you will find much US pollution in Antarctic ice cores...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just back from a few days at Champagne/France (yes, tried a glass, that is about my maximum of alcohol intake per month), I have read the several attempts to look at the aerosols&#8230; As that is one of my favorite topics, a few remarks:</p>
<p>There is a huge difference between tropospheric/human made aerosols which are reaching at most up to the inversion layer (a few thousand meter) and volcanic aerosols which are injected into the stratosphere (10 km and higher):</p>
<p>- The lifetime of tropospheric aerosols is average 4 days, most is raining out or drops out even as dry deposit. The lifetime of stratospheric aerosols is months (for fine ash) to years (for SO2), before dropping out. That means that most of the human-made aerosols are found at a few thousand km in the main wind direction from the sources (like US aerosols in Greenland and UK &#8220;acid rain&#8221; in Scandinavia).</p>
<p>- There is a strong barrier between the tropospheric NH and SH: the ITCZ. Even for non-condensing gases (like CO2), there is a lag of 6 months to 1 year between the NH and SH to pass the barrier. That means that CO2 levels at the South Pole are near the same as in Barrow (as yearly averages), but with a lag of about a year. For aerosols, where about 90% is emitted in the NH, most is rained out before even reaching the SH&#8230; Some indication (to be taken with a grain of salt) can be found at the IPCC (2001) report: <a href="http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/fig6-7.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/fig6-7.htm</a></p>
<p>Thus it is very unlikely that you will find much US pollution in Antarctic ice cores&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ferdinand Engelbeen</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/11/10/al-gore-and-dr-thompsons-thermometer-2/#comment-116606</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ferdinand Engelbeen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 20:11:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2335#comment-116606</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re #188

Anna Lang,

Thanks for the info! I used the University library of Antwerp several times, they have Science and Nature (in different buildings...), and a possibility for on-line research, not for outsiders, but you may ask for it and the librarian will do the search for you (but of course that is vey limited). Anyway I will try it via our local library and see if they can provide access via the Internet...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #188</p>
<p>Anna Lang,</p>
<p>Thanks for the info! I used the University library of Antwerp several times, they have Science and Nature (in different buildings&#8230;), and a possibility for on-line research, not for outsiders, but you may ask for it and the librarian will do the search for you (but of course that is vey limited). Anyway I will try it via our local library and see if they can provide access via the Internet&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Hu McCulloch</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/11/10/al-gore-and-dr-thompsons-thermometer-2/#comment-116605</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hu McCulloch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 21:59:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2335#comment-116605</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[John V (#115) wrote,
&lt;blockquote&gt;
Its clear that the image used in AIT was the wrong one. That got me wondering the effect on this scene had Gore actually used Thompsons thermometer. Heres a quick mock-up:
[photo of Gore with new graph inserted]
Hockey stick? Yep.
Much warmer today than MWP? Yep.
Substantial difference to the movie? Nope.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
At #147, 162, 174 and 195, I asked him to tell us what the missing units on his vertical scale were.  On searching back through the first &quot;Dr. Thompson&#039;s Thermometer thread&quot; ((www.climateaudit.org/?p=2328), I found that Steve had actually posted this graph in comment #16. Indeed, the vertical axis, which is unlabeled in JohnV&#039;s mock-up, has as its units z-scores of isotope enrichment, not temperature at all.  Has Thompson attempted to calibrate it to instrumental temperature anywhere?  (as opposed to calibrating it to MBH99) If not, this is just Dr. Thompson&#039;s Z-mometer, and not a &quot;thermometer&quot; at all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John V (#115) wrote,</p>
<blockquote><p>
Its clear that the image used in AIT was the wrong one. That got me wondering the effect on this scene had Gore actually used Thompsons thermometer. Heres a quick mock-up:<br />
[photo of Gore with new graph inserted]<br />
Hockey stick? Yep.<br />
Much warmer today than MWP? Yep.<br />
Substantial difference to the movie? Nope.
</p></blockquote>
<p>At #147, 162, 174 and 195, I asked him to tell us what the missing units on his vertical scale were.  On searching back through the first &#8220;Dr. Thompson&#8217;s Thermometer thread&#8221; ((www.climateaudit.org/?p=2328), I found that Steve had actually posted this graph in comment #16. Indeed, the vertical axis, which is unlabeled in JohnV&#8217;s mock-up, has as its units z-scores of isotope enrichment, not temperature at all.  Has Thompson attempted to calibrate it to instrumental temperature anywhere?  (as opposed to calibrating it to MBH99) If not, this is just Dr. Thompson&#8217;s Z-mometer, and not a &#8220;thermometer&#8221; at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/11/10/al-gore-and-dr-thompsons-thermometer-2/#comment-116604</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rob]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 20:10:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2335#comment-116604</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A bit OT but it&#039;s Saturday...

In a resent episode of South Park, the walls to &quot;imaginary land&quot; are mistakenly torn down. Inside the imaginary land, &quot;manbearpig&quot; resides (along with Santa and Luke Skywalker). Later in that episode Al Gore shows up with his brand new Nobel peace price around his neck, screaming and shouting - &quot;I told you so, I told you so&quot;.
The episode refers to an earlier episode a year or so back which was dedicated to Al Gore and his hunt for the &quot;manbearpig&quot; (a creature which is half man, half bear and half pig) he just knows exist. The boys feel petty for Al Gore and helps him track down the &quot;manbearpig&quot; as anybody else does.

Don&#039;t you watch South Park?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A bit OT but it&#8217;s Saturday&#8230;</p>
<p>In a resent episode of South Park, the walls to &#8220;imaginary land&#8221; are mistakenly torn down. Inside the imaginary land, &#8220;manbearpig&#8221; resides (along with Santa and Luke Skywalker). Later in that episode Al Gore shows up with his brand new Nobel peace price around his neck, screaming and shouting &#8211; &#8220;I told you so, I told you so&#8221;.<br />
The episode refers to an earlier episode a year or so back which was dedicated to Al Gore and his hunt for the &#8220;manbearpig&#8221; (a creature which is half man, half bear and half pig) he just knows exist. The boys feel petty for Al Gore and helps him track down the &#8220;manbearpig&#8221; as anybody else does.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t you watch South Park?</p>
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		<title>By: Anna Lang</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/11/10/al-gore-and-dr-thompsons-thermometer-2/#comment-116603</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anna Lang]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:52:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2335#comment-116603</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[RE: #207 Pat Keating: You are welcome.  Now, if all the money saved on article purchases went into the tip jar, Steve M. would be a happy camper!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE: #207 Pat Keating: You are welcome.  Now, if all the money saved on article purchases went into the tip jar, Steve M. would be a happy camper!</p>
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		<title>By: Pat Keating</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2007/11/10/al-gore-and-dr-thompsons-thermometer-2/#comment-116602</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pat Keating]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:40:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2335#comment-116602</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[194 Anna
Even better! Double thanks.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>194 Anna<br />
Even better! Double thanks.</p>
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