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	<title>Comments on: More on Toeplitz Matrices and Tree Ring Networks</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2008/03/23/more-on-toeplitz-matrices-and-tree-ring-networks/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/03/23/more-on-toeplitz-matrices-and-tree-ring-networks/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: David Smith</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/03/23/more-on-toeplitz-matrices-and-tree-ring-networks/#comment-141780</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:28:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2902#comment-141780</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re #40 Thanks, H, for pointing out a problem. I erred on plot #2 - the line labels should be switched (&quot;temperature&quot; is actually rainfall, and vice-versa). The r-squared value, and conjecture, are unaffected by this.

Also, note that one plot goes to 1980 (the end-point of Stahle data) while the other goes to 2007 (end of available temp and rain data).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #40 Thanks, H, for pointing out a problem. I erred on plot #2 &#8211; the line labels should be switched (&#8220;temperature&#8221; is actually rainfall, and vice-versa). The r-squared value, and conjecture, are unaffected by this.</p>
<p>Also, note that one plot goes to 1980 (the end-point of Stahle data) while the other goes to 2007 (end of available temp and rain data).</p>
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		<title>By: HMcCard</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/03/23/more-on-toeplitz-matrices-and-tree-ring-networks/#comment-141779</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[HMcCard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2008 18:14:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2902#comment-141779</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David,

Re: #38

Why do the temperature time-histories in your two graphs appear to be so different?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>Re: #38</p>
<p>Why do the temperature time-histories in your two graphs appear to be so different?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David Smith</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/03/23/more-on-toeplitz-matrices-and-tree-ring-networks/#comment-141778</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 16:08:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2902#comment-141778</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re #38 I forgot to mention that the r-squared values are for the unsmoothed data.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #38 I forgot to mention that the r-squared values are for the unsmoothed data.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: David Smith</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/03/23/more-on-toeplitz-matrices-and-tree-ring-networks/#comment-141777</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 16:06:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2902#comment-141777</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here are a couple of time series:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://davidsmith1.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/0328084.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; This one &lt;/a&gt; looks at Stahle and Texas temperature during May thru August. The mild negative correlation of growth with temperature is evident.

The second is &lt;a href=&quot;http://davidsmith1.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/0328083.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Texas temperature and rainfall &lt;/a&gt; in May thru August, which may help explain the first time series. My conjecture is that wet years (lots of rain) are also (relatively) cool years (more clouds, rain-cooled landscape) in this region of North America and that tree growth is moisture-limited, not temperature-limited.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here are a couple of time series:</p>
<p><a href="http://davidsmith1.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/0328084.jpg" rel="nofollow"> This one </a> looks at Stahle and Texas temperature during May thru August. The mild negative correlation of growth with temperature is evident.</p>
<p>The second is <a href="http://davidsmith1.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/0328083.jpg" rel="nofollow"> Texas temperature and rainfall </a> in May thru August, which may help explain the first time series. My conjecture is that wet years (lots of rain) are also (relatively) cool years (more clouds, rain-cooled landscape) in this region of North America and that tree growth is moisture-limited, not temperature-limited.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: David Smith</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/03/23/more-on-toeplitz-matrices-and-tree-ring-networks/#comment-141776</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 01:14:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2902#comment-141776</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Stahle combined PC1 versus global temperature (NCDC) is &lt;a href=&quot;http://davidsmith1.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/0326082.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; here &lt;/a&gt; . Sorry about the earlier error, which I caught one nanosecond after pressing &quot;submit&quot;.

The r-squared for Stahle vs global temperature is 0.007]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Stahle combined PC1 versus global temperature (NCDC) is <a href="http://davidsmith1.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/0326082.jpg" rel="nofollow"> here </a> . Sorry about the earlier error, which I caught one nanosecond after pressing &#8220;submit&#8221;.</p>
<p>The r-squared for Stahle vs global temperature is 0.007</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: David Smith</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/03/23/more-on-toeplitz-matrices-and-tree-ring-networks/#comment-141775</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 00:44:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2902#comment-141775</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re #35 Oops, that&#039;s US annual temperature, not global. Global in a moment.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #35 Oops, that&#8217;s US annual temperature, not global. Global in a moment.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: David Smith</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/03/23/more-on-toeplitz-matrices-and-tree-ring-networks/#comment-141774</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 00:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2902#comment-141774</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Stahle Combined PC1 versus Global Temperature is &lt;a href=&quot;http://davidsmith1.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/0326081.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; here &lt;/a&gt;

r-squared for this = -0.09]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Stahle Combined PC1 versus Global Temperature is <a href="http://davidsmith1.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/0326081.jpg" rel="nofollow"> here </a></p>
<p>r-squared for this = -0.09</p>
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		<title>By: J.Peden</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/03/23/more-on-toeplitz-matrices-and-tree-ring-networks/#comment-141773</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J.Peden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:35:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2902#comment-141773</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Stan Palmer, #18:

&lt;em&gt;The analysis of this posting shows that PCs are not representative of different climate fields (if such things exist) but of the geographic distribution of the proxies. Mann&#039;s conjecture of being able to detect climate fields with PCA is thus incorrect.&lt;/em&gt;

As a &quot;layman&quot; myself, and thus &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; one who understands the issues in the way you asked for, that&#039;s about what I get out of Steve&#039;s amazing analysis. Except that Mann&#039;s conjecture still &lt;em&gt;could&lt;/em&gt; be correct - but would have to be astronomically lucky to be so, even as a mere correlation - especially since Mann appears to have not offered any proof whatsoever that his conjecture is correct, but has apparently relied only upon &lt;em&gt;begging the question&lt;/em&gt;, which is about all I&#039;ve seen the ipcc AGW &quot;science&quot; do so far, anyway.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stan Palmer, #18:</p>
<p><em>The analysis of this posting shows that PCs are not representative of different climate fields (if such things exist) but of the geographic distribution of the proxies. Mann&#8217;s conjecture of being able to detect climate fields with PCA is thus incorrect.</em></p>
<p>As a &#8220;layman&#8221; myself, and thus <em>not</em> one who understands the issues in the way you asked for, that&#8217;s about what I get out of Steve&#8217;s amazing analysis. Except that Mann&#8217;s conjecture still <em>could</em> be correct &#8211; but would have to be astronomically lucky to be so, even as a mere correlation &#8211; especially since Mann appears to have not offered any proof whatsoever that his conjecture is correct, but has apparently relied only upon <em>begging the question</em>, which is about all I&#8217;ve seen the ipcc AGW &#8220;science&#8221; do so far, anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/03/23/more-on-toeplitz-matrices-and-tree-ring-networks/#comment-141772</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 14:20:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2902#comment-141772</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[PCs for combined TX-OK and SWM earlywood (24 site) network at www.climateaudit.org/data/misc/stahle.combined.pc.dat in ASCII format.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PCs for combined TX-OK and SWM earlywood (24 site) network at <a href="http://www.climateaudit.org/data/misc/stahle.combined.pc.dat" rel="nofollow">http://www.climateaudit.org/data/misc/stahle.combined.pc.dat</a> in ASCII format.</p>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/03/23/more-on-toeplitz-matrices-and-tree-ring-networks/#comment-141771</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Max]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:03:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2902#comment-141771</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So its no more than a paleo rain guage? Is there any other organism that could be used as proxies? Insect patterns? moss? trees are the typically the longest standing , but even to get a reconstruction over the last 60,50,40? to calibrate to?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So its no more than a paleo rain guage? Is there any other organism that could be used as proxies? Insect patterns? moss? trees are the typically the longest standing , but even to get a reconstruction over the last 60,50,40? to calibrate to?</p>
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