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	<title>Comments on: GISS Adjusts the Heartland</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2008/04/10/giss-adjusts-the-heartland/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/04/10/giss-adjusts-the-heartland/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
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		<title>By: skepskep</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/04/10/giss-adjusts-the-heartland/#comment-144693</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[skepskep]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:58:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2991#comment-144693</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Okay, so filtering through all of those links, I think the one takeaway is:

&lt;blockquote&gt;First, 74% of all U.S. stations are adjusted, while only 37% of ROW stations are adjusted&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This is a valid concern about the methodology used to assign the meta-data to the stations, and I know this has been written about here many times before.
Thanks for the links!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, so filtering through all of those links, I think the one takeaway is:</p>
<blockquote><p>First, 74% of all U.S. stations are adjusted, while only 37% of ROW stations are adjusted</p></blockquote>
<p>This is a valid concern about the methodology used to assign the meta-data to the stations, and I know this has been written about here many times before.<br />
Thanks for the links!</p>
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		<title>By: E Lottery</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/04/10/giss-adjusts-the-heartland/#comment-144692</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[E Lottery]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 20:05:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2991#comment-144692</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the thread links jeez.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the thread links jeez.</p>
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		<title>By: jeez</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/04/10/giss-adjusts-the-heartland/#comment-144691</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jeez]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:20:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2991#comment-144691</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[oh and this one which for some reason isn&#039;t included in the link above.

http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2815]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh and this one which for some reason isn&#8217;t included in the link above.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2815" rel="nofollow">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2815</a></p>
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		<title>By: jeez</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/04/10/giss-adjusts-the-heartland/#comment-144690</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jeez]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:20:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2991#comment-144690</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[oh and this one which for some reason isn&#039;t included in the link above.

http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2815#comment-219608]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh and this one which for some reason isn&#8217;t included in the link above.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2815#comment-219608" rel="nofollow">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2815#comment-219608</a></p>
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		<title>By: jeez</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/04/10/giss-adjusts-the-heartland/#comment-144689</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jeez]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:24:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2991#comment-144689</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Rather than speculate, you may want to go through these threads.

http://www.climateaudit.org/?cat=50]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rather than speculate, you may want to go through these threads.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.climateaudit.org/?cat=50" rel="nofollow">http://www.climateaudit.org/?cat=50</a></p>
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		<title>By: skepskep</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/04/10/giss-adjusts-the-heartland/#comment-144688</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[skepskep]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2991#comment-144688</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Actually, I found the information myself.

&lt;blockquote&gt; what I found was another one of those counter-intuitive downward homogenization adjustments &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Is the GISTEMP adjustment mechanism not documented?  It certainly appears that the source code is available, and from what I understand, it&#039;s very much possible for there to be positive temperature adjustments at some stations for some time periods using their adjustment mechanism (which doesn&#039;t seem to have a &quot;hey, let&#039;s make 1930 colder&quot; step).

As to the technique they use, my understanding is that they are applying an error adjustment based on the fact that climate variation measurements that are close in proximity are highly correlated.  And on the whole, the entire homogeneization technique was designed to adjust for the UHI and it should have a net result of reducing the severity of the global heating trend, not increasing it.

It would be fine to question the adjustment technique, but unfortunately that wasn&#039;t the topic of this post, in fact I&#039;m not sure what the scientific point was, but I&#039;m not impressed that someone who I think knows better would go around pointing out the counter-intuitive nature of the results of the homogeneization technique in an attempt to imply to the layman that it is at best an incorrect thing to do and at worst, [snip]

I&#039;m not an expert, and the early downward adjustment certainly baffled me at first, until I researched it.  And judging by the comments, nearly all of the commenters have been suckered in by this trick as well.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Got to eliminate (or at least reduce) those warm 1930s.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Why the wild speculation about whether arbitrary adjustments were made?  If you have all the evidence available to prove whether something was done incorrectly, why don&#039;t you just prove it!?

Let me summarize:  People are going to the effort of driving to take pictures of all of these stations (a laudable effort indeed!).  But instead of doing the small amount of incremental work to actually analyze whether the adjustment technique was correctly applied, the blogger tries to make a big deal out of the &quot;counter-intuitive&quot; nature of the adjustment.  There&#039;s something fishy going on at this blog.

As long as we&#039;re speculating wildly, let&#039;s try this one:  I&#039;ll speculate that in the critical analysis of these data adjustments, the bloggers _have_ actually run the software themselves and _already_ know that the data adjustments were applied correctly to this station&#039;s data but chose to let people infer that they might not have been.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I found the information myself.</p>
<blockquote><p> what I found was another one of those counter-intuitive downward homogenization adjustments </p></blockquote>
<p>Is the GISTEMP adjustment mechanism not documented?  It certainly appears that the source code is available, and from what I understand, it&#8217;s very much possible for there to be positive temperature adjustments at some stations for some time periods using their adjustment mechanism (which doesn&#8217;t seem to have a &#8220;hey, let&#8217;s make 1930 colder&#8221; step).</p>
<p>As to the technique they use, my understanding is that they are applying an error adjustment based on the fact that climate variation measurements that are close in proximity are highly correlated.  And on the whole, the entire homogeneization technique was designed to adjust for the UHI and it should have a net result of reducing the severity of the global heating trend, not increasing it.</p>
<p>It would be fine to question the adjustment technique, but unfortunately that wasn&#8217;t the topic of this post, in fact I&#8217;m not sure what the scientific point was, but I&#8217;m not impressed that someone who I think knows better would go around pointing out the counter-intuitive nature of the results of the homogeneization technique in an attempt to imply to the layman that it is at best an incorrect thing to do and at worst, [snip]</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not an expert, and the early downward adjustment certainly baffled me at first, until I researched it.  And judging by the comments, nearly all of the commenters have been suckered in by this trick as well.</p>
<blockquote><p>Got to eliminate (or at least reduce) those warm 1930s.</p></blockquote>
<p>Why the wild speculation about whether arbitrary adjustments were made?  If you have all the evidence available to prove whether something was done incorrectly, why don&#8217;t you just prove it!?</p>
<p>Let me summarize:  People are going to the effort of driving to take pictures of all of these stations (a laudable effort indeed!).  But instead of doing the small amount of incremental work to actually analyze whether the adjustment technique was correctly applied, the blogger tries to make a big deal out of the &#8220;counter-intuitive&#8221; nature of the adjustment.  There&#8217;s something fishy going on at this blog.</p>
<p>As long as we&#8217;re speculating wildly, let&#8217;s try this one:  I&#8217;ll speculate that in the critical analysis of these data adjustments, the bloggers _have_ actually run the software themselves and _already_ know that the data adjustments were applied correctly to this station&#8217;s data but chose to let people infer that they might not have been.</p>
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		<title>By: skepskep</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/04/10/giss-adjusts-the-heartland/#comment-144687</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[skepskep]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:28:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2991#comment-144687</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This post and the comments are a bit confusing because they fail to discuss whether the documented adjustment procedures were applied correctly and the procedures themselves are not valid, or whether the adjustments are just completely inexplicable.

I may have to do the work myself:  There have been references made to the standard adjustment procedures applied by GISS.  I can&#039;t seem to find the canonical source for this information, can someone provide a link?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post and the comments are a bit confusing because they fail to discuss whether the documented adjustment procedures were applied correctly and the procedures themselves are not valid, or whether the adjustments are just completely inexplicable.</p>
<p>I may have to do the work myself:  There have been references made to the standard adjustment procedures applied by GISS.  I can&#8217;t seem to find the canonical source for this information, can someone provide a link?</p>
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		<title>By: Evan Jones</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/04/10/giss-adjusts-the-heartland/#comment-144686</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Evan Jones]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Apr 2008 02:30:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2991#comment-144686</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Anthony Watts says:

&lt;blockquote&gt;4) No mechanism has been proposed or used by GISS for microsite bias adjustments as we see in this example.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

And that&#039;s the point, isn&#039;t it? Not only the point for the specific issue at hand but for the microsite issue writ large.

I have run the numbers of the 502 observed stations, according to their minimum estimated CRN violation ratings. And I will note further that Anthony Watts is VERY lenient when it comes to those violations; it seems to me from the photos the actual violations are worse than he says.

The aggregate measure of all stations measured is a 2 degrees C warm bias.

1.) This does NOT include UHI.

2.) Most of these violations occurred or worsened AFTER 1980, mainly because of the MMTS switchover, but also because of exurban creep bringing with it both waste heat and massive heat sink violations as defined in the CRN handbook.

It is obvious that the CRN ratings estimates are not in serious error as has been suggested on other blogs: we have all seen the jumps in temperatures as the sites have been changed for the worse.

Not only that, but FILENET spreads the bias around, thus masking it. A

And UHI effect is calculated off of often badly compromised rural stations thus resulting in a severe lowballing of UHI.

Call it &quot;positive adjustment feedback&quot;, if you will.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anthony Watts says:</p>
<p>&lt;blockquote&gt;4) No mechanism has been proposed or used by GISS for microsite bias adjustments as we see in this example.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</p>
<p>And that&#8217;s the point, isn&#8217;t it? Not only the point for the specific issue at hand but for the microsite issue writ large.</p>
<p>I have run the numbers of the 502 observed stations, according to their minimum estimated CRN violation ratings. And I will note further that Anthony Watts is VERY lenient when it comes to those violations; it seems to me from the photos the actual violations are worse than he says.</p>
<p>The aggregate measure of all stations measured is a 2 degrees C warm bias.</p>
<p>1.) This does NOT include UHI.</p>
<p>2.) Most of these violations occurred or worsened AFTER 1980, mainly because of the MMTS switchover, but also because of exurban creep bringing with it both waste heat and massive heat sink violations as defined in the CRN handbook.</p>
<p>It is obvious that the CRN ratings estimates are not in serious error as has been suggested on other blogs: we have all seen the jumps in temperatures as the sites have been changed for the worse.</p>
<p>Not only that, but FILENET spreads the bias around, thus masking it. A</p>
<p>And UHI effect is calculated off of often badly compromised rural stations thus resulting in a severe lowballing of UHI.</p>
<p>Call it &#8220;positive adjustment feedback&#8221;, if you will.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike C</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/04/10/giss-adjusts-the-heartland/#comment-144685</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike C]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 19:39:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2991#comment-144685</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[J # 63,

That is a novel idea except it does not apply to this station. The adjustment suggests that this station artificially warmed from 1890 to 1920 then artificially cooled from 1930 to 2000. There is nothing in the metadata or in the surrounding urban environment to support such an adjustment. This does however, provide evidence that the 1930&#039;s were artificially cooled in order to eliminate a natural signal from the record.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>J # 63,</p>
<p>That is a novel idea except it does not apply to this station. The adjustment suggests that this station artificially warmed from 1890 to 1920 then artificially cooled from 1930 to 2000. There is nothing in the metadata or in the surrounding urban environment to support such an adjustment. This does however, provide evidence that the 1930&#8242;s were artificially cooled in order to eliminate a natural signal from the record.</p>
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		<title>By: Pofarmer</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/04/10/giss-adjusts-the-heartland/#comment-144684</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pofarmer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 17:51:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2991#comment-144684</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ya know, as someone who&#039;s done some research at the University level, all this really bothers me.  We would have never, and I mean never, been allowed to manipulate the data to this degree in trying to draw conclusions from it.  First of all, the U.S. has Temperate, Arid, Sub-tropical and continental climate zones.  It goes from Mountains to vast plains.  How in the world are you going to homogenize the data for all of those zones?  Why even try.  If you want to compare urban to rural, countryside, then compare them.  Don&#039;t try to turn Urban readings into countryside and vice-versa.  All you are doing is confusing the data.  The whole excercise is looking to become increasingly pointless.  This data has been tortured to the point of being water-boarded!!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ya know, as someone who&#8217;s done some research at the University level, all this really bothers me.  We would have never, and I mean never, been allowed to manipulate the data to this degree in trying to draw conclusions from it.  First of all, the U.S. has Temperate, Arid, Sub-tropical and continental climate zones.  It goes from Mountains to vast plains.  How in the world are you going to homogenize the data for all of those zones?  Why even try.  If you want to compare urban to rural, countryside, then compare them.  Don&#8217;t try to turn Urban readings into countryside and vice-versa.  All you are doing is confusing the data.  The whole excercise is looking to become increasingly pointless.  This data has been tortured to the point of being water-boarded!!!</p>
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