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	<title>Comments on: Climate scientists should think about data quality more often, says Jones</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2008/05/30/climate-scientists-should-think-about-data-quality-more-often-says-jones/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/05/30/climate-scientists-should-think-about-data-quality-more-often-says-jones/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 19:12:55 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Richard Linsley Hood</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/05/30/climate-scientists-should-think-about-data-quality-more-often-says-jones/#comment-218493</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Linsley Hood]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 10:34:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3119#comment-218493</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Steve, anyone,

I have downloaded the Jones et al Model data for Oxford UK from “http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Guardian/documents/2009/12/08/uk.csv” (an extract from “http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climatechange/science/monitoring/reference/All.zip”) and compared it to the Actual temperatures as recorded at “http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/stationdata/oxforddata.txt” for the relevant dates, 1900-1980.

These two series are believed to be the same station.

Model.

Number= 038900
Name= OXFORD
Country= UK
Lat= 51.7
Long= 1.2
Height= 63

and

Actual.

Oxford
Location: 4509E 2072N 63 Meters

I have caclulated the tMonthlyMean values from the Actual data (tMonthlyMax, tMonthlyMin) and compared it to the Model tMonthlyMean figures on a month by month basis. These mostly show a +-0.05 difference (which is presumably due to some rounding errors to get to 0.1 degree published values either by me or by others).

Can anyone tell me why, then, the last fews years of the Model data (1978-1980) differs so widely from the Actual recorded temperatures? The Model is out by up to 2.2 degress C and an average of 0.36 degress C of apparent warming when compared to the Actual temperatures for just these last few years. That is, the Model shows a unexpected temperature rise of up to 2.2 degrees C in Oxford if using the Actual figures.

Actual – Model Oxford 1978-1980
Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
1978 0.15 0.35 0.35 0.35 0.35 0.15 0.25 0.40 0.35 0.25 0.05 0.45
1979 0.15 0.25 0.35 0.35 0.30 0.15 0.25 0.40 0.90 0.25 0.20 0.05
1980 0.20 0.25 0.70 0.40 0.35 0.15 0.35 0.40 0.40 0.30 0.15 2.20

Anyone with any insights into this divergence of the Jones et al Model from Actual?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, anyone,</p>
<p>I have downloaded the Jones et al Model data for Oxford UK from “http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Guardian/documents/2009/12/08/uk.csv” (an extract from “http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climatechange/science/monitoring/reference/All.zip”) and compared it to the Actual temperatures as recorded at “http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/stationdata/oxforddata.txt” for the relevant dates, 1900-1980.</p>
<p>These two series are believed to be the same station.</p>
<p>Model.</p>
<p>Number= 038900<br />
Name= OXFORD<br />
Country= UK<br />
Lat= 51.7<br />
Long= 1.2<br />
Height= 63</p>
<p>and</p>
<p>Actual.</p>
<p>Oxford<br />
Location: 4509E 2072N 63 Meters</p>
<p>I have caclulated the tMonthlyMean values from the Actual data (tMonthlyMax, tMonthlyMin) and compared it to the Model tMonthlyMean figures on a month by month basis. These mostly show a +-0.05 difference (which is presumably due to some rounding errors to get to 0.1 degree published values either by me or by others).</p>
<p>Can anyone tell me why, then, the last fews years of the Model data (1978-1980) differs so widely from the Actual recorded temperatures? The Model is out by up to 2.2 degress C and an average of 0.36 degress C of apparent warming when compared to the Actual temperatures for just these last few years. That is, the Model shows a unexpected temperature rise of up to 2.2 degrees C in Oxford if using the Actual figures.</p>
<p>Actual – Model Oxford 1978-1980<br />
Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec<br />
1978 0.15 0.35 0.35 0.35 0.35 0.15 0.25 0.40 0.35 0.25 0.05 0.45<br />
1979 0.15 0.25 0.35 0.35 0.30 0.15 0.25 0.40 0.90 0.25 0.20 0.05<br />
1980 0.20 0.25 0.70 0.40 0.35 0.15 0.35 0.40 0.40 0.30 0.15 2.20</p>
<p>Anyone with any insights into this divergence of the Jones et al Model from Actual?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Troy</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/05/30/climate-scientists-should-think-about-data-quality-more-often-says-jones/#comment-149432</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Troy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:46:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3119#comment-149432</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Phil Jones and Michael Mann, I have one thing to say,
&quot;YOU LIE&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil Jones and Michael Mann, I have one thing to say,<br />
&#8220;YOU LIE&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/05/30/climate-scientists-should-think-about-data-quality-more-often-says-jones/#comment-149431</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 11:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3119#comment-149431</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And now Phil Jones&#039; misconducts are all exposed on the web!!!!!!!
Read this:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100017393/climategate-the-final-nail-in-the-coffin-of-anthropogenic-global-warming/


and then download the related zip file from one of these sites:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=003LKN94
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5171206
http://www.filedropper.com/foi2009]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And now Phil Jones&#8217; misconducts are all exposed on the web!!!!!!!<br />
Read this:<br />
<a href="http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100017393/climategate-the-final-nail-in-the-coffin-of-anthropogenic-global-warming/" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100017393/climategate-the-final-nail-in-the-coffin-of-anthropogenic-global-warming/</a></p>
<p>and then download the related zip file from one of these sites:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.megaupload.com/?d=003LKN94" rel="nofollow">http://www.megaupload.com/?d=003LKN94</a><br />
<a href="http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5171206" rel="nofollow">http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5171206</a><br />
<a href="http://www.filedropper.com/foi2009" rel="nofollow">http://www.filedropper.com/foi2009</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Prochlorococcus Rocks</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/05/30/climate-scientists-should-think-about-data-quality-more-often-says-jones/#comment-149430</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Prochlorococcus Rocks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:40:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3119#comment-149430</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Climate scientists should think about data quality more often&quot;

so does this mean the opposite is true and data quality is thought of rarely?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Climate scientists should think about data quality more often&#8221;</p>
<p>so does this mean the opposite is true and data quality is thought of rarely?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: P.M.W.</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/05/30/climate-scientists-should-think-about-data-quality-more-often-says-jones/#comment-149429</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[P.M.W.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 03:50:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3119#comment-149429</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Intellectual Property Rights apply to something that has been created by the rights holder.

Seems to me that, for Intellectual Property Rights to apply in this case, the clear implication is that the data is a work of fiction.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Intellectual Property Rights apply to something that has been created by the rights holder.</p>
<p>Seems to me that, for Intellectual Property Rights to apply in this case, the clear implication is that the data is a work of fiction.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tom Gray</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/05/30/climate-scientists-should-think-about-data-quality-more-often-says-jones/#comment-149428</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Gray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 21:02:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3119#comment-149428</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[re 39

The IPR issue is likely to be a non-disclosure agreement.

It is possible that these agencies require purchasers of the data to agree not to pass it on to other parties. It is an issue for international standards committees. These groups used to finance themselves, in part anyway, by the sale of copies of the standards. Copying machines were an issue with this but the advent of the web was a particular problem. People expected that these public standards should be free to access. That was possible but how were the standards groups going to get the money to make them free to access.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re 39</p>
<p>The IPR issue is likely to be a non-disclosure agreement.</p>
<p>It is possible that these agencies require purchasers of the data to agree not to pass it on to other parties. It is an issue for international standards committees. These groups used to finance themselves, in part anyway, by the sale of copies of the standards. Copying machines were an issue with this but the advent of the web was a particular problem. People expected that these public standards should be free to access. That was possible but how were the standards groups going to get the money to make them free to access.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: henry</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/05/30/climate-scientists-should-think-about-data-quality-more-often-says-jones/#comment-149427</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[henry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 16:55:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3119#comment-149427</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To me, the only IPR claim that Jones may have would be to the method he used to make his assumption, and not to the data used (he created the code, for example).

Some of the data he uses comes from other countries, and part of the arguement he uses is that there are some countries that don&#039;t want their data released.  Yet he even refuses to list which contries these are, so that other researchers can approach them and ask to use the data.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To me, the only IPR claim that Jones may have would be to the method he used to make his assumption, and not to the data used (he created the code, for example).</p>
<p>Some of the data he uses comes from other countries, and part of the arguement he uses is that there are some countries that don&#8217;t want their data released.  Yet he even refuses to list which contries these are, so that other researchers can approach them and ask to use the data.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jeff A</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/05/30/climate-scientists-should-think-about-data-quality-more-often-says-jones/#comment-149426</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeff A]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 01:32:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3119#comment-149426</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[But if the data were gathered/produced with government/public funds, Jones has no IPR claim.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But if the data were gathered/produced with government/public funds, Jones has no IPR claim.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: John Link</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/05/30/climate-scientists-should-think-about-data-quality-more-often-says-jones/#comment-149425</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Link]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 22:56:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3119#comment-149425</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wonder how Jones can cite Intellectual Property Rights without disclosing what that property is.  After all, the whole idea behind patents is to disclose your invention to the public in return for a right to enforce others against making, using or selling it without your permission.  Ditto copyright:  to enforce it you&#039;ve got to go to an infringer and say &quot;Hey, I wrote, published and copyrighted that, and I can prove it!&quot;

But in both cases the patentee or copyright holder is asserting a right involving &lt;em&gt;creations of the mind &lt;/em&gt;that have been &lt;em&gt;prevously disclosed to the public&lt;/em&gt;, not data taken from instrument measurements.  There&#039;s no creativity in the latter, and keeping such data secret is completely antithetical to patent and copyright law---not to mention to the spirit of science itself.

Imagine if Michelson and Morley had said &quot;Yep, our data &lt;em&gt;confirms&lt;/em&gt; the existence of the ether --- but we&#039;re not going to share it with you.&quot;  They would rightly have been regarded as charlatans.

Wasn&#039;t there a spoof called &quot;The Journal of Irreproducible Results&quot;?
Maybe Jones can publish and copyright his data there.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder how Jones can cite Intellectual Property Rights without disclosing what that property is.  After all, the whole idea behind patents is to disclose your invention to the public in return for a right to enforce others against making, using or selling it without your permission.  Ditto copyright:  to enforce it you&#8217;ve got to go to an infringer and say &#8220;Hey, I wrote, published and copyrighted that, and I can prove it!&#8221;</p>
<p>But in both cases the patentee or copyright holder is asserting a right involving <em>creations of the mind </em>that have been <em>prevously disclosed to the public</em>, not data taken from instrument measurements.  There&#8217;s no creativity in the latter, and keeping such data secret is completely antithetical to patent and copyright law&#8212;not to mention to the spirit of science itself.</p>
<p>Imagine if Michelson and Morley had said &#8220;Yep, our data <em>confirms</em> the existence of the ether &#8212; but we&#8217;re not going to share it with you.&#8221;  They would rightly have been regarded as charlatans.</p>
<p>Wasn&#8217;t there a spoof called &#8220;The Journal of Irreproducible Results&#8221;?<br />
Maybe Jones can publish and copyright his data there.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Religion, not science &#124; Cold Fury</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/05/30/climate-scientists-should-think-about-data-quality-more-often-says-jones/#comment-149424</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Religion, not science &#124; Cold Fury]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 19:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3119#comment-149424</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] How &#8220;science&#8221; gets &#8220;settled&#8221;: We have 25 or so years invested in the work. Why should I make the data available to you, when your aim is to try and find something wrong with it. There is IPR to consider. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] How &#8220;science&#8221; gets &#8220;settled&#8221;: We have 25 or so years invested in the work. Why should I make the data available to you, when your aim is to try and find something wrong with it. There is IPR to consider. [...]</p>
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