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	<title>Comments on: Svalgaard #7</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2008/06/07/svalgaard-7/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/06/07/svalgaard-7/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Topblog &#187; One Month of Work-Trade in Paradise</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/06/07/svalgaard-7/#comment-220062</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Topblog &#187; One Month of Work-Trade in Paradise]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 18:34:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3159#comment-220062</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Blog: July 2008The Bubbles of a Global Market Hot TubOpen Thread: discuss whatever you would likeSvalgaard #7 &#8221; Climate AuditChoosing an Energy Efficiency StoveEarth Policy Institute: Protecting and Restoring Forests [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Blog: July 2008The Bubbles of a Global Market Hot TubOpen Thread: discuss whatever you would likeSvalgaard #7 &#8221; Climate AuditChoosing an Energy Efficiency StoveEarth Policy Institute: Protecting and Restoring Forests [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/06/07/svalgaard-7/#comment-150377</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 12:04:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3159#comment-150377</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[330 (Stroller): I think the answer to all your questions there is &quot;no&quot;. The Earth&#039;s precession is the result of [mostly] lunar tides of a non-spherical Earth. This process clearly does not apply to the Sun. And stars have been found to have axes and orbital planes pointing in every which direction. The Galactic center does seem not order these. The tidal forces to do this are much too small.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>330 (Stroller): I think the answer to all your questions there is &#8220;no&#8221;. The Earth&#8217;s precession is the result of [mostly] lunar tides of a non-spherical Earth. This process clearly does not apply to the Sun. And stars have been found to have axes and orbital planes pointing in every which direction. The Galactic center does seem not order these. The tidal forces to do this are much too small.</p>
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		<title>By: stroller</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/06/07/svalgaard-7/#comment-150376</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[stroller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 08:29:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3159#comment-150376</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Leif: Thankyou for the graph and information at #261
Point of information please.
I read in a book about magnetohydrodynamics that the ascending node of the solar equatorial plane crosses the ecliptic at a certain point, and that this &quot;drifts&quot; around 1 degree every 72 years.

Does this mean the 7 degree tilt of the solar axis precesses at a steady rate to a complete cycle around every 25920 years? This figure is very close to being the same as the earth&#039;s precessionary cycle. Are the two geometrically aligned in any way? i.e. do the tilts &#039;point in the same direction? If so, what could be the cause of this? Some sort of magnetic coupling? Or the gravitation of a distant mass such as the galactic centre?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leif: Thankyou for the graph and information at #261<br />
Point of information please.<br />
I read in a book about magnetohydrodynamics that the ascending node of the solar equatorial plane crosses the ecliptic at a certain point, and that this &#8220;drifts&#8221; around 1 degree every 72 years.</p>
<p>Does this mean the 7 degree tilt of the solar axis precesses at a steady rate to a complete cycle around every 25920 years? This figure is very close to being the same as the earth&#8217;s precessionary cycle. Are the two geometrically aligned in any way? i.e. do the tilts &#8216;point in the same direction? If so, what could be the cause of this? Some sort of magnetic coupling? Or the gravitation of a distant mass such as the galactic centre?</p>
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		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/06/07/svalgaard-7/#comment-150375</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 03:20:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3159#comment-150375</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#324.  Erl, please take this to the bulletin board. I&#039;m going to have start deleting posts otherwise.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#324.  Erl, please take this to the bulletin board. I&#8217;m going to have start deleting posts otherwise.</p>
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		<title>By: Erl Happ</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/06/07/svalgaard-7/#comment-150374</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Erl Happ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 03:16:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3159#comment-150374</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[323 (Leif)


&lt;blockquote&gt;The main point is that as far as we know, none of this has anything to due with climate change at the surface.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The problem lies in the phrase &#039;as far as we know&#039;. The speedy collapse of temperatures in the stratosphere when sunspots fail to appear is testimony to the importance of UV light in ionospheric and stratospheric processes. The collapse of the F layer shows that the ionic population is depleted when the solar wind impacts the magnetosphere. With it goes, to some extent, the neutrals. Hence, density change due to lateral movement. That will affect UV penetration. The atmosphere has no sharp boundaries. The impact of UV light, that is responsible for the temperature inversion at 100hPa in the tropics, must be felt below 100hPa for that inversion to manifest. The pressure difference between 200hPa and 100hPa is indicative of the difference in the density of material and the amount that separates these two levels. You don&#039;t have to be Einstein, have a pHd in Physics or be a mathematical whiz to work this out.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>323 (Leif)</p>
<blockquote><p>The main point is that as far as we know, none of this has anything to due with climate change at the surface.</p></blockquote>
<p>The problem lies in the phrase &#8216;as far as we know&#8217;. The speedy collapse of temperatures in the stratosphere when sunspots fail to appear is testimony to the importance of UV light in ionospheric and stratospheric processes. The collapse of the F layer shows that the ionic population is depleted when the solar wind impacts the magnetosphere. With it goes, to some extent, the neutrals. Hence, density change due to lateral movement. That will affect UV penetration. The atmosphere has no sharp boundaries. The impact of UV light, that is responsible for the temperature inversion at 100hPa in the tropics, must be felt below 100hPa for that inversion to manifest. The pressure difference between 200hPa and 100hPa is indicative of the difference in the density of material and the amount that separates these two levels. You don&#8217;t have to be Einstein, have a pHd in Physics or be a mathematical whiz to work this out.</p>
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		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/06/07/svalgaard-7/#comment-150373</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 02:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3159#comment-150373</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[321 (Erl): The energy and the particles comes from the outer magnetosphere [and many of those in turn were mostly sucked up from the polar ionosphere]. When the atmosphere heats up due to this energy being injected it expands and the density at a given height [e.g. where a satellite is] increases because the atmosphere so to speaks comes up from below. No need to suggest anything. All these things are well-studied and well-known. A lot of military and commercial hardware depends on our knowledge of these things. The main point is that as far as we know, none of this has anything to due with climate change at the surface.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>321 (Erl): The energy and the particles comes from the outer magnetosphere [and many of those in turn were mostly sucked up from the polar ionosphere]. When the atmosphere heats up due to this energy being injected it expands and the density at a given height [e.g. where a satellite is] increases because the atmosphere so to speaks comes up from below. No need to suggest anything. All these things are well-studied and well-known. A lot of military and commercial hardware depends on our knowledge of these things. The main point is that as far as we know, none of this has anything to due with climate change at the surface.</p>
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		<title>By: Erl Happ</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/06/07/svalgaard-7/#comment-150372</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Erl Happ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 02:36:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3159#comment-150372</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[319 (Leif)
Unfortunately channel 14 was abolished. Try this http://discover.itsc.uah.edu/amsutemps/execute.csh?amsutemps+004

You will have to select for 2.5Mb and the early years. Radiosondes to not appear to go this far. Do you know of other sources? Agreed, more data is is vital.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>319 (Leif)<br />
Unfortunately channel 14 was abolished. Try this <a href="http://discover.itsc.uah.edu/amsutemps/execute.csh?amsutemps+004" rel="nofollow">http://discover.itsc.uah.edu/amsutemps/execute.csh?amsutemps+004</a></p>
<p>You will have to select for 2.5Mb and the early years. Radiosondes to not appear to go this far. Do you know of other sources? Agreed, more data is is vital.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Erl Happ</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/06/07/svalgaard-7/#comment-150371</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Erl Happ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 02:24:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3159#comment-150371</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[318 (Leif)
At#296 the abstract says

&lt;blockquote&gt;We report on periodic oscillations in thermosphere density, measured by the accelerometer on the CHAMP satellite during 2006, and relate these periodicities to oscillations observed in solar wind speed and Kp index.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

My understanding is that in the ionosphere movement of material (ionic and entrained neutrals) is due to magnetic polarity and reactions to change in magnetic fields  is fast. Aurora provide evidence of energy and density increase, together with warming, above the poles. The material has to come from somewhere. I suggest that it is drawn from equatorial regions. The F layer can disappear above the equator.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>318 (Leif)<br />
At#296 the abstract says</p>
<blockquote><p>We report on periodic oscillations in thermosphere density, measured by the accelerometer on the CHAMP satellite during 2006, and relate these periodicities to oscillations observed in solar wind speed and Kp index.</p></blockquote>
<p>My understanding is that in the ionosphere movement of material (ionic and entrained neutrals) is due to magnetic polarity and reactions to change in magnetic fields  is fast. Aurora provide evidence of energy and density increase, together with warming, above the poles. The material has to come from somewhere. I suggest that it is drawn from equatorial regions. The F layer can disappear above the equator.</p>
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		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/06/07/svalgaard-7/#comment-150370</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 02:22:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3159#comment-150370</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[319 (Erl): at http://www.leif.org/research/geoact.htm you&#039;ll find more on the semiannual variation. Also at http://www.leif.org/research/The%20semiannual%20variation%20of%20great%20geomagnetic%20storms.pdf
The link you gave returns an error.
And you can in general not conclude &lt;em&gt;anything&lt;/em&gt; from only a couple of years worth of data.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>319 (Erl): at <a href="http://www.leif.org/research/geoact.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.leif.org/research/geoact.htm</a> you&#8217;ll find more on the semiannual variation. Also at <a href="http://www.leif.org/research/The%20semiannual%20variation%20of%20great%20geomagnetic%20storms.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.leif.org/research/The%20semiannual%20variation%20of%20great%20geomagnetic%20storms.pdf</a><br />
The link you gave returns an error.<br />
And you can in general not conclude <em>anything</em> from only a couple of years worth of data.</p>
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		<title>By: Erl Happ</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/06/07/svalgaard-7/#comment-150369</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Erl Happ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 02:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3159#comment-150369</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[309 (Leif)


&lt;blockquote&gt;The 7% should be 7 degrees and is the tilt angle of the Sun&#039;s axis. The explanation of the semiannual change you describe is called the ‘axial&#039; explanation and was first formulated by Cortie in 1912. The mechanism is responsible for a small part [~10% on average] of the semiannual variation of geomagnetic activity that is observed.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes, I meant 7°. Would you mind briefly listing the other sources of the semi-annual variation. Does the  coupling factor account for the rest? Can we agree that temperature variations at 2.5hPa as shown for a couple of early years at http://discover.itsc.uah.edu/amsutemps/execute.csh?amsutemps show evidence of this effect by virtue of a displacement of the annual peak from January to March?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>309 (Leif)</p>
<blockquote><p>The 7% should be 7 degrees and is the tilt angle of the Sun&#8217;s axis. The explanation of the semiannual change you describe is called the ‘axial&#8217; explanation and was first formulated by Cortie in 1912. The mechanism is responsible for a small part [~10% on average] of the semiannual variation of geomagnetic activity that is observed.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, I meant 7°. Would you mind briefly listing the other sources of the semi-annual variation. Does the  coupling factor account for the rest? Can we agree that temperature variations at 2.5hPa as shown for a couple of early years at <a href="http://discover.itsc.uah.edu/amsutemps/execute.csh?amsutemps" rel="nofollow">http://discover.itsc.uah.edu/amsutemps/execute.csh?amsutemps</a> show evidence of this effect by virtue of a displacement of the annual peak from January to March?</p>
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