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	<title>Comments on: Hansen Update</title>
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	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/07/28/hansen-update/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 28 May 2012 18:42:04 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>By: The truth of Global Warming</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/07/28/hansen-update/#comment-250970</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The truth of Global Warming]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Dec 2010 22:24:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3354#comment-250970</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...]  [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Niche Modeling &#187; More Climate Illogic</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/07/28/hansen-update/#comment-214552</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Niche Modeling &#187; More Climate Illogic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 18:39:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3354#comment-214552</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] evidence. Note the RealClimate article fails to mention scenario C at all in their post. See ClimateAudit for details of the scenarios and [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] evidence. Note the RealClimate article fails to mention scenario C at all in their post. See ClimateAudit for details of the scenarios and [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ------ THE SKY IS FALLING ------ - Page 862 - The Environment Site Forums</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/07/28/hansen-update/#comment-213445</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[------ THE SKY IS FALLING ------ - Page 862 - The Environment Site Forums]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 04:37:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3354#comment-213445</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] you read any of Hansen&#039;s stuff? Sounds to me like he feels he is acting for the common good.    Hansen Stuff - Many Links    [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] you read any of Hansen&#39;s stuff? Sounds to me like he feels he is acting for the common good.    Hansen Stuff &#8211; Many Links    [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Walter Manny</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/07/28/hansen-update/#comment-156941</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Walter Manny]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 20:08:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3354#comment-156941</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A year later, what are the graphs looking like now?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A year later, what are the graphs looking like now?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joe E</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/07/28/hansen-update/#comment-156940</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joe E]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 19:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3354#comment-156940</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Admittedly, Hansen&#039;s work has been discussed in thousands of posts, of which I have read a fraction, and understood a fraction of those.  Nevertheless, here is an opinion:
Hansen, in forecasting future temperatures, was forecasting these 3 things:
1. Greenhouse gas emissions, 2. Greenhouse gas retention in the atmosphere, 3. The impact of the greenhouse gases in the atmosphere on surface temperatures.

For the first, he provided 3 scenarios, indicating perhaps a certain uncertainty about what would happen after his forecast.  Looking at these GHG emissions scenarios, it looks like a pretty big variation in what might happen.  However, he did not provide us with scenarios or error estimates on the other 2 forecasts, those of GHG retention and any impact of such retention on the measured temperatures. I would argue that these 2 elements are not settled science, even today.  Yet the use of point estimates in his model suggests that these elements were know with precision.  If the researcher had provided reasonable error estimates for all of the relationships modeled, I think the predictions would have come with very wide error bars, probably even permitting an ice age in time, because so many of the relationships are poorly understood.  If, as I think we should,  we implicitly place very wide error bars on the 3 scenarios, then the current temperature record would fall comfortably within the error bars of all 3 scenarios.

In other words, the model was largely a means to illustrate a point to get some specific policy actions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Admittedly, Hansen&#8217;s work has been discussed in thousands of posts, of which I have read a fraction, and understood a fraction of those.  Nevertheless, here is an opinion:<br />
Hansen, in forecasting future temperatures, was forecasting these 3 things:<br />
1. Greenhouse gas emissions, 2. Greenhouse gas retention in the atmosphere, 3. The impact of the greenhouse gases in the atmosphere on surface temperatures.</p>
<p>For the first, he provided 3 scenarios, indicating perhaps a certain uncertainty about what would happen after his forecast.  Looking at these GHG emissions scenarios, it looks like a pretty big variation in what might happen.  However, he did not provide us with scenarios or error estimates on the other 2 forecasts, those of GHG retention and any impact of such retention on the measured temperatures. I would argue that these 2 elements are not settled science, even today.  Yet the use of point estimates in his model suggests that these elements were know with precision.  If the researcher had provided reasonable error estimates for all of the relationships modeled, I think the predictions would have come with very wide error bars, probably even permitting an ice age in time, because so many of the relationships are poorly understood.  If, as I think we should,  we implicitly place very wide error bars on the 3 scenarios, then the current temperature record would fall comfortably within the error bars of all 3 scenarios.</p>
<p>In other words, the model was largely a means to illustrate a point to get some specific policy actions.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Earle Williams</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/07/28/hansen-update/#comment-156939</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Earle Williams]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2008 22:07:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3354#comment-156939</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re #64

Lubos,

Yeah, that little bit seems to get overlooked by too many folks.  Love your blog by the way.  Too much geo and not enough physicist in my education to grapple all the issues you post, but your style carries through.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #64</p>
<p>Lubos,</p>
<p>Yeah, that little bit seems to get overlooked by too many folks.  Love your blog by the way.  Too much geo and not enough physicist in my education to grapple all the issues you post, but your style carries through.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Gabriel Lombardi</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/07/28/hansen-update/#comment-156938</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gabriel Lombardi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2008 19:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3354#comment-156938</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The links in post #33 erroneously include periods. They should be
&lt;a href=&quot;http://climatesci.colorado.edu/publications/pdf/R-321.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://climatesci.colorado.edu/publications/pdf/R-321.pdf&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://climatesci.colorado.edu/publications/pdf/R-333.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://climatesci.colorado.edu/publications/pdf/R-333.pdf&lt;/a&gt;

Interesting articles, by the way -  worthy of a careful read.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The links in post #33 erroneously include periods. They should be<br />
<a href="http://climatesci.colorado.edu/publications/pdf/R-321.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://climatesci.colorado.edu/publications/pdf/R-321.pdf</a><br />
<a href="http://climatesci.colorado.edu/publications/pdf/R-333.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://climatesci.colorado.edu/publications/pdf/R-333.pdf</a></p>
<p>Interesting articles, by the way &#8211;  worthy of a careful read.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lubos Motl</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/07/28/hansen-update/#comment-156937</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lubos Motl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2008 05:22:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3354#comment-156937</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Earle #63, I completely agree with your analysis of Richard Littlemore&#039;s DeSmogBlog statement. He confuses the proposition that &quot;an emissions scenario (input) is reasonable&quot; with &quot;the predictions of temperature in this scenario (output) are reasonable&quot;. Input and output are two somewhat different things, in fact, they enter with the opposite sign when the value of a paper - a transformation of the input to the output - is evaluated. Because the inputs and outputs run according to very different scenarios, the map (by Hansen) is wrong.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Earle #63, I completely agree with your analysis of Richard Littlemore&#8217;s DeSmogBlog statement. He confuses the proposition that &#8220;an emissions scenario (input) is reasonable&#8221; with &#8220;the predictions of temperature in this scenario (output) are reasonable&#8221;. Input and output are two somewhat different things, in fact, they enter with the opposite sign when the value of a paper &#8211; a transformation of the input to the output &#8211; is evaluated. Because the inputs and outputs run according to very different scenarios, the map (by Hansen) is wrong.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Earle Williams</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/07/28/hansen-update/#comment-156936</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Earle Williams]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 19:55:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3354#comment-156936</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re #62

Gary,

I assume you are capable of reading Steve McIntyre&#039;s posting and come to your own conclusions.  Do you need anyone else&#039;s help in that regard?  Please read the post at the top of this page in its entirety and let us know what you think of the veracity of what Desmog is posting.

I expect the kind folks at other blogs have trouble interpeting Steve McIntyre&#039;s final paragraph, which includes the following:

&lt;em&gt;One has to distinguish skill as a GHG emissions forecaster from model evaluation - a distinction that Hansen fairly makes. I think that Scenario B is close enough to observed emissions that, in the absence of NASA being able or willing to re-run the actual 1988 model with actual forcings, one can be reasonably use Scenario B for comparisons.&lt;/em&gt;

Observed forcings are close to Scnario B.  Observed temperatures are below Scenario C.  Does recognition of that constitute accepting Hansen&#039;s work and the hockey stick?  It must be a pretty twisted logic pretzel whereby one can reach that conclusion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #62</p>
<p>Gary,</p>
<p>I assume you are capable of reading Steve McIntyre&#8217;s posting and come to your own conclusions.  Do you need anyone else&#8217;s help in that regard?  Please read the post at the top of this page in its entirety and let us know what you think of the veracity of what Desmog is posting.</p>
<p>I expect the kind folks at other blogs have trouble interpeting Steve McIntyre&#8217;s final paragraph, which includes the following:</p>
<p><em>One has to distinguish skill as a GHG emissions forecaster from model evaluation &#8211; a distinction that Hansen fairly makes. I think that Scenario B is close enough to observed emissions that, in the absence of NASA being able or willing to re-run the actual 1988 model with actual forcings, one can be reasonably use Scenario B for comparisons.</em></p>
<p>Observed forcings are close to Scnario B.  Observed temperatures are below Scenario C.  Does recognition of that constitute accepting Hansen&#8217;s work and the hockey stick?  It must be a pretty twisted logic pretzel whereby one can reach that conclusion.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/07/28/hansen-update/#comment-156935</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gary]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 18:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3354#comment-156935</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just a Question Off Topic:
Desmog is running a thread on ClimateAudit based on the Hansen Update thread with &quot;Which is why it&#039;s so surprising to see McIntyre accepting Hansen&#039;s work now.
They are claiming you are now support Hansen&#039;s work and (infered) the Hockeystick.
True?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a Question Off Topic:<br />
Desmog is running a thread on ClimateAudit based on the Hansen Update thread with &#8220;Which is why it&#8217;s so surprising to see McIntyre accepting Hansen&#8217;s work now.<br />
They are claiming you are now support Hansen&#8217;s work and (infered) the Hockeystick.<br />
True?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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