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	<title>Comments on: Watch the Ball</title>
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	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/11/12/watch-the-pea/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 19 Jun 2013 02:29:14 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Geoff</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/11/12/watch-the-pea/#comment-167964</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Geoff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 05:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4332#comment-167964</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[By the way, Peter Stott of the Met Office Hadley Centre has a new article in press at GRL titled &quot;Variability of high latitude amplification of anthropogenic warming&quot;. Abstract:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Climate models have long predicted that the high latitude response of nearsurface air temperatures should be greater than at lower latitudes as a result of snow/ice feedbacks. Here we show that a regression analysis of observed global surface temperatures and anthropogenic and natural forcings could misleadingly suggest that climate models fail to capture the observed zonal mean pattern of response to anthropogenic forcings. A better approach to detecting changes and to determine consistency of climate models and observations is to use multiple features of the response pattern derived from physically-based climate models, as has been done in optimal detection studies. We show that multi-variable fingerprints can more easily detect anthropogenic changes thereby offering the potential to more robustly quantify anthropogenic influence on aspects of the climate system such as the cryosphere and the hydrological cycle.&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, Peter Stott of the Met Office Hadley Centre has a new article in press at GRL titled &#8220;Variability of high latitude amplification of anthropogenic warming&#8221;. Abstract:</p>
<blockquote><p>Climate models have long predicted that the high latitude response of nearsurface air temperatures should be greater than at lower latitudes as a result of snow/ice feedbacks. Here we show that a regression analysis of observed global surface temperatures and anthropogenic and natural forcings could misleadingly suggest that climate models fail to capture the observed zonal mean pattern of response to anthropogenic forcings. A better approach to detecting changes and to determine consistency of climate models and observations is to use multiple features of the response pattern derived from physically-based climate models, as has been done in optimal detection studies. We show that multi-variable fingerprints can more easily detect anthropogenic changes thereby offering the potential to more robustly quantify anthropogenic influence on aspects of the climate system such as the cryosphere and the hydrological cycle.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: David Smith</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/11/12/watch-the-pea/#comment-167963</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2008 05:00:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4332#comment-167963</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is a minor item but it illustrates NOAA/NCDC&#039;s need for better software to flag outliers -

NCDC&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/cag3/cag3.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; US Climate at a Glance &lt;/a&gt; webpage uses preliminary temperature anomaly data to create a monthly anomaly map:



The mauve arrow points to an oddity - a blazing hot spot around Greenwood, MS, with a peak anomaly approaching +8F. Greenwood&#039;s Preliminary November Climate Data form (&quot;CF6&quot; report available &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.weather.gov/climate/index.php?wfo=jan&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; here &lt;/a&gt;) hints at the cause:



For some reason Greenwood reported only the first seven days of the month, a warm spell where the temperature anomaly was +7F. The data missed the rest of the month, which was anomalously cool across the region. Despite the abbreviated and unrepresentative nature of the Greenwood data, it was apparently used in the map construction. This the hot spot.

No doubt this will be corrected later but meanwhile an oddly flawed map has been issued to, and perhaps used by, the public.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a minor item but it illustrates NOAA/NCDC&#8217;s need for better software to flag outliers -</p>
<p>NCDC&#8217;s <a href="http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/cag3/cag3.html" rel="nofollow"> US Climate at a Glance </a> webpage uses preliminary temperature anomaly data to create a monthly anomaly map:</p>
<p>The mauve arrow points to an oddity &#8211; a blazing hot spot around Greenwood, MS, with a peak anomaly approaching +8F. Greenwood&#8217;s Preliminary November Climate Data form (&#8220;CF6&#8243; report available <a href="http://www.weather.gov/climate/index.php?wfo=jan" rel="nofollow"> here </a>) hints at the cause:</p>
<p>For some reason Greenwood reported only the first seven days of the month, a warm spell where the temperature anomaly was +7F. The data missed the rest of the month, which was anomalously cool across the region. Despite the abbreviated and unrepresentative nature of the Greenwood data, it was apparently used in the map construction. This the hot spot.</p>
<p>No doubt this will be corrected later but meanwhile an oddly flawed map has been issued to, and perhaps used by, the public.</p>
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		<title>By: Hot Hot Hot – Just how warm was October 2008? &#171; Climate Change - The Facts</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/11/12/watch-the-pea/#comment-167962</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hot Hot Hot – Just how warm was October 2008? &#171; Climate Change - The Facts]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 15:01:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4332#comment-167962</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] posts in Watts Up With That and Climate Audit which discuss the NASA [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] posts in Watts Up With That and Climate Audit which discuss the NASA [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Buddenbrook</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/11/12/watch-the-pea/#comment-167961</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Buddenbrook]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 16:28:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4332#comment-167961</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[John F. Pittman, I would like to believe so, but I&#039;m quite certain it is an impossible wish. As the doubts start to grow, politics and psychology will mix with science in increasing amounts. Scientists are not immune to the human factor. History knows several examples.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John F. Pittman, I would like to believe so, but I&#8217;m quite certain it is an impossible wish. As the doubts start to grow, politics and psychology will mix with science in increasing amounts. Scientists are not immune to the human factor. History knows several examples.</p>
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		<title>By: The world has never seen such freezing heat OT the Blunder with NASA: s GISS Temperature data &#171; UD/RK Samhälls Debatt</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/11/12/watch-the-pea/#comment-167960</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The world has never seen such freezing heat OT the Blunder with NASA: s GISS Temperature data &#171; UD/RK Samhälls Debatt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 15:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4332#comment-167960</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4332 [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4332" rel="nofollow">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4332</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: John F. Pittman</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/11/12/watch-the-pea/#comment-167959</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John F. Pittman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 15:51:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4332#comment-167959</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-312141&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Buddenbrook (#112)&lt;/a&gt;, I hope you would consider a counter argument. Perhaps this is the best time to de-politicalize the conversation. That both sides should come to the agreement that a misatke was made. That GISS will most probably institute some QA into their procedure. But whether the different teams play together better, is a somewhat moot point. I think both sides should ask &quot;Did the science get better?&quot; I can understand Gavin&#039;s reaction that this is a small issue. I can understand those who think that perhaps there are other issues with GISS that this last problem and the Y2K problem indicate and should be followed up on. I would agree with both. But I think it likely that when, and if, it is done that the mistakes, if found, in GISS will not be overwhelming. The reason I think this is that the 4 most used metrics are in close agreement. I would hope that both sides would look at continuing to improve, if possible. And that of course is the real question. Can improvements be made?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-312141" rel="nofollow">Buddenbrook (#112)</a>, I hope you would consider a counter argument. Perhaps this is the best time to de-politicalize the conversation. That both sides should come to the agreement that a misatke was made. That GISS will most probably institute some QA into their procedure. But whether the different teams play together better, is a somewhat moot point. I think both sides should ask &#8220;Did the science get better?&#8221; I can understand Gavin&#8217;s reaction that this is a small issue. I can understand those who think that perhaps there are other issues with GISS that this last problem and the Y2K problem indicate and should be followed up on. I would agree with both. But I think it likely that when, and if, it is done that the mistakes, if found, in GISS will not be overwhelming. The reason I think this is that the 4 most used metrics are in close agreement. I would hope that both sides would look at continuing to improve, if possible. And that of course is the real question. Can improvements be made?</p>
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		<title>By: Buddenbrook</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/11/12/watch-the-pea/#comment-167958</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Buddenbrook]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 15:22:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4332#comment-167958</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[snip - too much venting]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>snip &#8211; too much venting</p>
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		<title>By: John M</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/11/12/watch-the-pea/#comment-167957</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John M]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 14:10:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4332#comment-167957</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Apocryphal of course!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apocryphal of course!</p>
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		<title>By: John M</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/11/12/watch-the-pea/#comment-167956</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John M]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 14:08:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4332#comment-167956</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-311978&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Stan Palmer (#108)&lt;/a&gt;,

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;But we&#039;ll keep on repeating the experiment until we get the right result.&quot; &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Reminds me of an old production plant axiom:

&quot;Purification by re-analysis.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-311978" rel="nofollow">Stan Palmer (#108)</a>,</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;But we&#8217;ll keep on repeating the experiment until we get the right result.&#8221; </p></blockquote>
<p>Reminds me of an old production plant axiom:</p>
<p>&#8220;Purification by re-analysis.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Raven</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/11/12/watch-the-pea/#comment-167955</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Raven]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 13:48:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4332#comment-167955</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-311978&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Stan Palmer (#108)&lt;/a&gt;
No doubt. I posted the link because the concept of warmer air during a freeze up was related. However, I do not think that the arctic ocean operates like water in a cup. If anything, I suspect the people making the claim are grasping at anything that could explain the observations without undermining their preferred hypothesis.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-311978" rel="nofollow">Stan Palmer (#108)</a><br />
No doubt. I posted the link because the concept of warmer air during a freeze up was related. However, I do not think that the arctic ocean operates like water in a cup. If anything, I suspect the people making the claim are grasping at anything that could explain the observations without undermining their preferred hypothesis.</p>
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