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	<title>Comments on: Emulating Mannian CPS</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2008/12/02/emulating-mannian-cps/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/12/02/emulating-mannian-cps/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 15:32:22 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>By: scientist</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/12/02/emulating-mannian-cps/#comment-238349</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[scientist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2010 03:20:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4494#comment-238349</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[1.  I don&#039;t think using terms like &quot;stupid pet tricks&quot; is helpful to getting neutral observors or even the objects of criticism to look at your in process work.  In addition, it plays to the hoi polloi who don&#039;t follow the technical arguments and just want to agree with you, like some sort of Jerry Springer fans.  That and it&#039;s way too cute.  Just use a neutral phrase to describe the methodology setting options.

2.  you should have (at least) 4 settings.  The grid square displacement and the only one gridcell are separate issues.

3.  The 1930s impact is interesting.  Good catch.

4.  I wonder how much RE is impacted  by the methodology choices (minor, I assume, but just curious).  

5.  Is your example here only the 1000 AD proxies or does it include the more recent stuff?  Just want to make sure that you can emulate the more complicated Mann treatments. Why not emulate figures from his paper? 

6.  If you have questions on how the uncertainty was calculated, ask Mann.  I would have told you to move on too, were I the reviewer.  Also, the whole issue deserves it&#039;s own post, or at least it&#039;s own paragraph!  Don&#039;t throw it in at the end.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1.  I don&#8217;t think using terms like &#8220;stupid pet tricks&#8221; is helpful to getting neutral observors or even the objects of criticism to look at your in process work.  In addition, it plays to the hoi polloi who don&#8217;t follow the technical arguments and just want to agree with you, like some sort of Jerry Springer fans.  That and it&#8217;s way too cute.  Just use a neutral phrase to describe the methodology setting options.</p>
<p>2.  you should have (at least) 4 settings.  The grid square displacement and the only one gridcell are separate issues.</p>
<p>3.  The 1930s impact is interesting.  Good catch.</p>
<p>4.  I wonder how much RE is impacted  by the methodology choices (minor, I assume, but just curious).  </p>
<p>5.  Is your example here only the 1000 AD proxies or does it include the more recent stuff?  Just want to make sure that you can emulate the more complicated Mann treatments. Why not emulate figures from his paper? </p>
<p>6.  If you have questions on how the uncertainty was calculated, ask Mann.  I would have told you to move on too, were I the reviewer.  Also, the whole issue deserves it&#8217;s own post, or at least it&#8217;s own paragraph!  Don&#8217;t throw it in at the end.</p>
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		<title>By: A story illustrating one of the most important aspects of the climate science debate &#171; Fabius Maximus</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/12/02/emulating-mannian-cps/#comment-169311</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A story illustrating one of the most important aspects of the climate science debate &#171; Fabius Maximus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 12:02:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4494#comment-169311</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] “Emulating Mannian CPS“, Steve McIntyre, Climate Audit, 2 December 2008 – The struggle continues to get “hockey stick” Mann&#039;s computer to code to work.  Only then can Mann&#039;s work be replicated.  Odd that it appears in peer-reviewed journals; one wonders what “reviewed” means when the code does not run. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] “Emulating Mannian CPS“, Steve McIntyre, Climate Audit, 2 December 2008 – The struggle continues to get “hockey stick” Mann&#8217;s computer to code to work.  Only then can Mann&#8217;s work be replicated.  Odd that it appears in peer-reviewed journals; one wonders what “reviewed” means when the code does not run. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Peer review of scientific work - an inadequate basis for big public action &#171; Fabius Maximus</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/12/02/emulating-mannian-cps/#comment-169310</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peer review of scientific work - an inadequate basis for big public action &#171; Fabius Maximus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 07:42:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4494#comment-169310</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] “Emulating Mannian CPS“, Steve McIntyre, Climate Audit, 2 December 2008 – The struggle continues to get “hockey stick” Mann&#039;s computer to code to work.  Only then can Mann&#039;s work be replicated.  Odd that it appears in peer-reviewed journals; one wonders what “reviewed” means when the code does not run. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] “Emulating Mannian CPS“, Steve McIntyre, Climate Audit, 2 December 2008 – The struggle continues to get “hockey stick” Mann&#8217;s computer to code to work.  Only then can Mann&#8217;s work be replicated.  Odd that it appears in peer-reviewed journals; one wonders what “reviewed” means when the code does not run. [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jeff Id</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/12/02/emulating-mannian-cps/#comment-169309</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jeff Id]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 15:54:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4494#comment-169309</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m having a bit of trouble with the Require Rcompression line in the collation file.

 require(&quot;Rcompression&quot;)

Is there an R package which has this already built in?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m having a bit of trouble with the Require Rcompression line in the collation file.</p>
<p> require(&#8220;Rcompression&#8221;)</p>
<p>Is there an R package which has this already built in?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: This week&#8217;s report on the news in climate science &#171; Fabius Maximus</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/12/02/emulating-mannian-cps/#comment-169308</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[This week&#8217;s report on the news in climate science &#171; Fabius Maximus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 12:00:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4494#comment-169308</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] &#8220;Emulating Mannian CPS&#8220;, Steve McIntyre, Climate Audit, 2 December 2008 &#8211; The struggle continues to get [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8220;Emulating Mannian CPS&#8220;, Steve McIntyre, Climate Audit, 2 December 2008 &#8211; The struggle continues to get [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: UC</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/12/02/emulating-mannian-cps/#comment-169307</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[UC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 03:33:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4494#comment-169307</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-314435&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Hu McCulloch (#9)&lt;/a&gt;,



&lt;blockquote&gt;An ideal calibration would then take into account the empirical variance of the instrumental random walk, plus the emprical variance of the calibration equation, and then do a type of Kalman smoother under the assumption that the unobserved reconstruction temperature is continuing this random walk.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes, random walk or any other prior for the signal.  CCE + Kalman, that&#039;s what we need. In published dendro work ICE gets trough (Briffa98, see http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4475#comment-314389 ,
implicit assumption is iid signal, not random walk), and even variance matching + butterworth smoothing (Mann). And Briffa&#039;s variance adjustment shows that they are not even interested in taking this topic seriously ;)

BTW, I think Butterworth is at least approximate solution to some Wiener filter problems.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-314435" rel="nofollow">Hu McCulloch (#9)</a>,</p>
<blockquote><p>An ideal calibration would then take into account the empirical variance of the instrumental random walk, plus the emprical variance of the calibration equation, and then do a type of Kalman smoother under the assumption that the unobserved reconstruction temperature is continuing this random walk.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, random walk or any other prior for the signal.  CCE + Kalman, that&#8217;s what we need. In published dendro work ICE gets trough (Briffa98, see <a href="http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4475#comment-314389" rel="nofollow">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4475#comment-314389</a> ,<br />
implicit assumption is iid signal, not random walk), and even variance matching + butterworth smoothing (Mann). And Briffa&#8217;s variance adjustment shows that they are not even interested in taking this topic seriously <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>BTW, I think Butterworth is at least approximate solution to some Wiener filter problems.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark T.</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/12/02/emulating-mannian-cps/#comment-169306</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark T.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 21:59:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4494#comment-169306</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh, and I don&#039;t disagree that such a smoothing method wouldn&#039;t be unreasonable.

Mark]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and I don&#8217;t disagree that such a smoothing method wouldn&#8217;t be unreasonable.</p>
<p>Mark</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/12/02/emulating-mannian-cps/#comment-169305</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 21:54:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4494#comment-169305</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#9. Hu, it may be interesting to look at speleothem O!8 concurrently with ice core O18.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#9. Hu, it may be interesting to look at speleothem O!8 concurrently with ice core O18.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark T.</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/12/02/emulating-mannian-cps/#comment-169304</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark T.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 21:21:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4494#comment-169304</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kalman filters aren&#039;t really &quot;filters&quot; in the same sense as we&#039;re discussing with the IIR being used.  They are adaptive, and thus derive their coefficients directly from the data being filtered.

Mark]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kalman filters aren&#8217;t really &#8220;filters&#8221; in the same sense as we&#8217;re discussing with the IIR being used.  They are adaptive, and thus derive their coefficients directly from the data being filtered.</p>
<p>Mark</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Hu McCulloch</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2008/12/02/emulating-mannian-cps/#comment-169303</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hu McCulloch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 21:10:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4494#comment-169303</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re Mark T #8 and Steve #7:  Actually, a type of &quot;Kalman smoother&quot; (a filter which looks in both directions) wouldn&#039;t be unreasonable for a reconstruction, provided it were based on empirical variance ratios.

Our discussions here of calibration tend to think in terms of calibrating one date at a time, in isolation from all other dates.  However, the instrumental data is, to a first approximation, roughly a random walk, so that adjacent dates are more alike than distant dates, and adjacent calibration data and even instrumental data can tell us a lot about any given date in question.

An ideal calibration would then take into account the empirical variance of the instrumental random walk, plus the emprical variance of the calibration equation, and then do a type of Kalman smoother under the assumption that the unobserved reconstruction temperature is continuing this random walk.  The near end can even be pinned down with &quot;perfect&quot; certainty (relatively speaking) at the oldest instrumental date.

I&#039;m still mulling how to do this with Thompson&#039;s CC03 ice core data, which is only a Z-mometer as it stands.   The problem is somewhat complicated by the fact that even given the variances, the slope uncertainty makes the pointwise reconstruction the ratio of two normals, and then the variance uncertainty also has to be integrated out, presumably numerically.  But it&#039;s not insurmountable, I think.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re Mark T #8 and Steve #7:  Actually, a type of &#8220;Kalman smoother&#8221; (a filter which looks in both directions) wouldn&#8217;t be unreasonable for a reconstruction, provided it were based on empirical variance ratios.</p>
<p>Our discussions here of calibration tend to think in terms of calibrating one date at a time, in isolation from all other dates.  However, the instrumental data is, to a first approximation, roughly a random walk, so that adjacent dates are more alike than distant dates, and adjacent calibration data and even instrumental data can tell us a lot about any given date in question.</p>
<p>An ideal calibration would then take into account the empirical variance of the instrumental random walk, plus the emprical variance of the calibration equation, and then do a type of Kalman smoother under the assumption that the unobserved reconstruction temperature is continuing this random walk.  The near end can even be pinned down with &#8220;perfect&#8221; certainty (relatively speaking) at the oldest instrumental date.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m still mulling how to do this with Thompson&#8217;s CC03 ice core data, which is only a Z-mometer as it stands.   The problem is somewhat complicated by the fact that even given the variances, the slope uncertainty makes the pointwise reconstruction the ratio of two normals, and then the variance uncertainty also has to be integrated out, presumably numerically.  But it&#8217;s not insurmountable, I think.</p>
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