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	<title>Comments on: Antarctic RegEM</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2009/01/21/antarctic-regem/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/01/21/antarctic-regem/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
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		<title>By: Lucy Skywalker</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/01/21/antarctic-regem/#comment-173578</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lucy Skywalker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:55:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4914#comment-173578</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-322174&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Vernon (#163)&lt;/a&gt;, even as a non-statistician, it looks to me like you&#039;ve got a potential hit with those conclusions of weakness in the work of Mann, Rutherford, Wahl and Ammann:-
&lt;blockquote&gt;“When standardizations are confined to the calibration interval only, pseudoproxy reconstructions performed with RegEM-Ridge suffer from warm biases and variance losses.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

From the paper, no, Letter:-
&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;We use a method (notes 9,10) adapted from the regularized expectation maximization algorithm11 (RegEM) for estimating missing data points in climate fields. RegEM is an iterative algorithm similar to principal-component analysis... We assess reconstruction skill using reduction-of-error (RE) and coefficient-of-efficiency (CE) scores as well as conventional correlation (r) scores.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Note 10 is &quot;Mann, M. E., Rutherford, S., Wahl, E. &amp; Ammann, C. Robustness of proxy-based climate field reconstruction methods&quot; and note 9 refers back to Rutherford.

Janama @ #156 &quot;no Australian data&quot; The Australian sector is on the cooler East side.

The link to the letter @ #109 has gone dead now, is that the norm after x days? (thankfully I&#039;ve got it). Cannot get Methods without paying - all this seems like more varieties of data that should be publicly available and isn&#039;t.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-322174" rel="nofollow">Vernon (#163)</a>, even as a non-statistician, it looks to me like you&#8217;ve got a potential hit with those conclusions of weakness in the work of Mann, Rutherford, Wahl and Ammann:-</p>
<blockquote><p>“When standardizations are confined to the calibration interval only, pseudoproxy reconstructions performed with RegEM-Ridge suffer from warm biases and variance losses.”</p></blockquote>
<p>From the paper, no, Letter:-</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;We use a method (notes 9,10) adapted from the regularized expectation maximization algorithm11 (RegEM) for estimating missing data points in climate fields. RegEM is an iterative algorithm similar to principal-component analysis&#8230; We assess reconstruction skill using reduction-of-error (RE) and coefficient-of-efficiency (CE) scores as well as conventional correlation (r) scores.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Note 10 is &#8220;Mann, M. E., Rutherford, S., Wahl, E. &amp; Ammann, C. Robustness of proxy-based climate field reconstruction methods&#8221; and note 9 refers back to Rutherford.</p>
<p>Janama @ #156 &#8220;no Australian data&#8221; The Australian sector is on the cooler East side.</p>
<p>The link to the letter @ #109 has gone dead now, is that the norm after x days? (thankfully I&#8217;ve got it). Cannot get Methods without paying &#8211; all this seems like more varieties of data that should be publicly available and isn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Jean S</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/01/21/antarctic-regem/#comment-173577</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jean S]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 14:46:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4914#comment-173577</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Some data is now here:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://faculty.washington.edu/steig/nature09data/ReadMe.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://faculty.washington.edu/steig/nature09data/ReadMe.html&lt;/a&gt;

Of course, no code and only links to raw data (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nsidc.org/data/avhrr/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;AVHRR data&lt;/a&gt; does not even seem to be uptodate) ...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some data is now here:<br />
<a href="http://faculty.washington.edu/steig/nature09data/ReadMe.html" rel="nofollow">http://faculty.washington.edu/steig/nature09data/ReadMe.html</a></p>
<p>Of course, no code and only links to raw data (<a href="http://www.nsidc.org/data/avhrr/" rel="nofollow">AVHRR data</a> does not even seem to be uptodate) &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: RomanM</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/01/21/antarctic-regem/#comment-173576</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RomanM]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 02:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4914#comment-173576</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-322455&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Not sure (#172)&lt;/a&gt;,

 No,you didn&#039;t screw it up.  A 2 to 1 ratio of radii becomes a 4 to 1 ratio in area and the eye reacts to that.  The square root takes it back to the correct relative relationship.  Changing the 4 to a 2 reduces the size of the larger circles.

It does make a difference!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-322455" rel="nofollow">Not sure (#172)</a>,</p>
<p> No,you didn&#8217;t screw it up.  A 2 to 1 ratio of radii becomes a 4 to 1 ratio in area and the eye reacts to that.  The square root takes it back to the correct relative relationship.  Changing the 4 to a 2 reduces the size of the larger circles.</p>
<p>It does make a difference!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Not sure</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/01/21/antarctic-regem/#comment-173575</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Not sure]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 23:24:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4914#comment-173575</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That seems to make quite a difference:



Did I screw up the R?


&lt;blockquote&gt;
split.screen(c(1,2))
screen(1)
plot(sta.coord$x,sta.coord$y, pch=19, asp=1,col=c(&quot;blue&quot;,&quot;red&quot;)[1+(decmean.latex&gt;0)],cex=4*abs(decmean.latex),xlab=&quot;&quot;,ylab=&quot;&quot;,axes=F,main =&quot;Plot of Mean Station Trends (Radius)&quot;)
map(anta, fill = F,add=T)
screen(2)
plot(sta.coord$x,sta.coord$y, pch=19, asp=1,col=c(&quot;blue&quot;,&quot;red&quot;)[1+(decmean.latex&gt;0)],cex=2*sqrt(abs(decmean.latex)),xlab=&quot;&quot;,ylab=&quot;&quot;,axes=F,main =&quot;Plot of Mean Station Trends (Area)&quot;)
map(anta, fill = F,add=T)
&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That seems to make quite a difference:</p>
<p>Did I screw up the R?</p>
<blockquote><p>
split.screen(c(1,2))<br />
screen(1)<br />
plot(sta.coord$x,sta.coord$y, pch=19, asp=1,col=c(&#8220;blue&#8221;,&#8221;red&#8221;)[1+(decmean.latex&gt;0)],cex=4*abs(decmean.latex),xlab=&#8221;",ylab=&#8221;",axes=F,main =&#8221;Plot of Mean Station Trends (Radius)&#8221;)<br />
map(anta, fill = F,add=T)<br />
screen(2)<br />
plot(sta.coord$x,sta.coord$y, pch=19, asp=1,col=c(&#8220;blue&#8221;,&#8221;red&#8221;)[1+(decmean.latex&gt;0)],cex=2*sqrt(abs(decmean.latex)),xlab=&#8221;",ylab=&#8221;",axes=F,main =&#8221;Plot of Mean Station Trends (Area)&#8221;)<br />
map(anta, fill = F,add=T)
</p></blockquote>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/01/21/antarctic-regem/#comment-173574</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:49:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4914#comment-173574</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#170. Inline responses aren&#039;t always a good idea. I used this cex method with some plots showing weights of Mann proxies and it nicely showed the role of bristlecones.  I&#039;ve done a couple on Mann CPS and meant to post them last week.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#170. Inline responses aren&#8217;t always a good idea. I used this cex method with some plots showing weights of Mann proxies and it nicely showed the role of bristlecones.  I&#8217;ve done a couple on Mann CPS and meant to post them last week.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: RomanM</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/01/21/antarctic-regem/#comment-173573</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RomanM]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:39:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4914#comment-173573</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey, I didn&#039;t see the inline response when I submitted my comment.  Honest!!! :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, I didn&#8217;t see the inline response when I submitted my comment.  Honest!!! <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: RomanM</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/01/21/antarctic-regem/#comment-173572</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RomanM]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:38:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4914#comment-173572</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-322320&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Q.F. (#168)&lt;/a&gt;,

Excellent point! This type of adjustment is usually done when plotting histograms with unequal width bars because in that case also the eye sees the area instead of the height of the bar.

I actually tried this (AFTER I had already posted the script).  k = 2 works pretty well.

This same effect was noticeable when I tried plotting the results for the AWS as well as the stations on the same graph.  I used squares for the AWS and circles for the staions. Even adjusting the relative sizes of the two symbols to match area didn&#039;t help a lot because it got too crowded with a lot of overlapping.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-322320" rel="nofollow">Q.F. (#168)</a>,</p>
<p>Excellent point! This type of adjustment is usually done when plotting histograms with unequal width bars because in that case also the eye sees the area instead of the height of the bar.</p>
<p>I actually tried this (AFTER I had already posted the script).  k = 2 works pretty well.</p>
<p>This same effect was noticeable when I tried plotting the results for the AWS as well as the stations on the same graph.  I used squares for the AWS and circles for the staions. Even adjusting the relative sizes of the two symbols to match area didn&#8217;t help a lot because it got too crowded with a lot of overlapping.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Q.F.</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/01/21/antarctic-regem/#comment-173571</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Q.F.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:26:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4914#comment-173571</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-322032&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;RomanM (#157)&lt;/a&gt;

Just regarding the plot, the eye (mine at least) compares the circles by area not radius.  It might be better to use:
&lt;blockquote&gt;cex=k*sqrt(abs(decmean.latex))&lt;/blockquote&gt;
for some choice of k.
&lt;strong&gt;
Steve:&lt;/strong&gt; I agree with this point; I&#039;ve used this form of expression from time to time and like it a lot.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-322032" rel="nofollow">RomanM (#157)</a></p>
<p>Just regarding the plot, the eye (mine at least) compares the circles by area not radius.  It might be better to use:</p>
<blockquote><p>cex=k*sqrt(abs(decmean.latex))</p></blockquote>
<p>for some choice of k.<br />
<strong><br />
Steve:</strong> I agree with this point; I&#8217;ve used this form of expression from time to time and like it a lot.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: MartinGAtkins</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/01/21/antarctic-regem/#comment-173570</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MartinGAtkins]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:43:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4914#comment-173570</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-322267&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Simon Evans (#166)&lt;/a&gt;,

I follow it up and found a bug in &quot;gnuplot&quot;. If you run many linear plots for a prolonged time, it starts to give erroneous results. Annoying because if i can&#039;t find a fix I&#039;ll have to change the software.

The only chart I can find indicates a cooling trend but only goes up to about 1999 and no linear trend line.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-322267" rel="nofollow">Simon Evans (#166)</a>,</p>
<p>I follow it up and found a bug in &#8220;gnuplot&#8221;. If you run many linear plots for a prolonged time, it starts to give erroneous results. Annoying because if i can&#8217;t find a fix I&#8217;ll have to change the software.</p>
<p>The only chart I can find indicates a cooling trend but only goes up to about 1999 and no linear trend line.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Simon Evans</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/01/21/antarctic-regem/#comment-173569</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Simon Evans]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 02:24:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4914#comment-173569</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-322259&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;MartinGAtkins (#165)&lt;/a&gt;,

That&#039;s interesting, Martin. The Steig paper declares the Vostok trend as being +0.1C/decade over 1957-2006. Perhaps you have discovered a major fault in the paper? I think you should follow this up.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-322259" rel="nofollow">MartinGAtkins (#165)</a>,</p>
<p>That&#8217;s interesting, Martin. The Steig paper declares the Vostok trend as being +0.1C/decade over 1957-2006. Perhaps you have discovered a major fault in the paper? I think you should follow this up.</p>
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