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	<title>Comments on: Dirty Harry 4: When Harry Met Gill</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2009/02/02/when-harry-met-gill/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/02/02/when-harry-met-gill/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
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		<title>By: kim2ooo</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/02/02/when-harry-met-gill/#comment-408383</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kim2ooo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Mar 2013 17:32:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=5054#comment-408383</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Reblogged this on &lt;a href=&quot;http://climaterealistponderings.wordpress.com/2013/03/30/3330/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Climate Ponderings&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reblogged this on <a href="http://climaterealistponderings.wordpress.com/2013/03/30/3330/" rel="nofollow">Climate Ponderings</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: World War II “corrections” live on in dubious Hadley Centre SST data from deep in the Southern Ocean &#171; An Honest Climate Debate</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/02/02/when-harry-met-gill/#comment-174666</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[World War II “corrections” live on in dubious Hadley Centre SST data from deep in the Southern Ocean &#171; An Honest Climate Debate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 05:17:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=5054#comment-174666</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] I had been admiring Steve McIntyre&#039;s demolition of the Steig et al 2009 claims (much promoted in the Australian media) that Antarctic was “warming after all”. I think this is the first article on Climate Audit, then several others followed into February. Try not to miss, When Harry Met Gill  [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I had been admiring Steve McIntyre&#8217;s demolition of the Steig et al 2009 claims (much promoted in the Australian media) that Antarctic was “warming after all”. I think this is the first article on Climate Audit, then several others followed into February. Try not to miss, When Harry Met Gill  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Errors in IPCC climate science &#187; Blog Archive &#187; World War II &#8220;corrections&#8221; live on in dubious Hadley Centre SST data from deep in the Southern Ocean</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/02/02/when-harry-met-gill/#comment-174665</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Errors in IPCC climate science &#187; Blog Archive &#187; World War II &#8220;corrections&#8221; live on in dubious Hadley Centre SST data from deep in the Southern Ocean]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 03:04:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=5054#comment-174665</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] is the first article on Climate Audit, then several others followed into February. Try not to miss, When Harry Met Gill  It turns out there were errors in Automatic Weather Station (AWS) data, surprise, surprise. Also [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is the first article on Climate Audit, then several others followed into February. Try not to miss, When Harry Met Gill  It turns out there were errors in Automatic Weather Station (AWS) data, surprise, surprise. Also [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/02/02/when-harry-met-gill/#comment-174664</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 15:57:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=5054#comment-174664</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#240. There are two legs to the problem: 1) that the Harry record included data from a period when it did not exist; 2) that the spliced data came from Gill.

OF the two points, the only one that really matters is that Harry contains spliced data from a period when it did not exist; the Gill thing is the sort of interesting detail that adds color but doesn&#039;t really matter.

I noticed that GISS and Steig used the same data (See my first post), so I was interested in why Mannian RegEM yielded different results than GISTEMP - the sort of thing that you&#039;d think that they would report in PRL. I noticed that Harry was a big outlier in the West Antarctic and decided to look at it. I have several GISS versions and compared versions - I&#039;m not sure why. I&#039;ve got a lot of relatively well-organized data and can do this sort of thing in a couple of minutes. A huge difference popped out.

I&#039;ve done enough deconstruction of Team and Mannian stuff that I don&#039;t overlook the possibility of really goofy things like accidentally splicing unrelated series - this is not the first time. If you&#039;re fresh to this corpus of material, it wouldn&#039;t occur to you to be alert for this sort of thing.

So I looked for info on Harry - I googled &quot;Harry AWS&quot; and got to the Wisconsin site. It showed that HArry didn;t exist prior to 1994. So I was pretty sure on Sunday afternoon that they&#039;d done something goofy and asked readers to look for a provenance of Harry data before it existed.  I posted up a script for scraping data from the Wisc website as well.

I went back just before bed and scraped all the files, the number of stations increased and varied by year, so the scraping was a little fiddly. I then looked through Jan-Feb values in a couple of years before Harry existed and found a match with Gill.  I then downloaded all the Gill series and found that all the imaginary Harry data came from Gill.

There was another way. Gill proved to be one series above Harry in the BAS list. Tim C noticed that the two BAS series were identical.

I don&#039;t know what Gavin did in his &quot;independent&quot; identification of the Gill provenance.  However, as noted above, for BAS purposes, the provenance of the bad data doesn&#039;t matter; only that the data is bad - something that Gavin obviously didn&#039;t &quot;independently&quot; notice.

As observed elsewhere, we later learned that Monaghan et al 2008, cited by Steig, observed that Harry data was &quot;suspicious&quot; but apparently took no steps to investigate or pin down these suspicions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#240. There are two legs to the problem: 1) that the Harry record included data from a period when it did not exist; 2) that the spliced data came from Gill.</p>
<p>OF the two points, the only one that really matters is that Harry contains spliced data from a period when it did not exist; the Gill thing is the sort of interesting detail that adds color but doesn&#8217;t really matter.</p>
<p>I noticed that GISS and Steig used the same data (See my first post), so I was interested in why Mannian RegEM yielded different results than GISTEMP &#8211; the sort of thing that you&#8217;d think that they would report in PRL. I noticed that Harry was a big outlier in the West Antarctic and decided to look at it. I have several GISS versions and compared versions &#8211; I&#8217;m not sure why. I&#8217;ve got a lot of relatively well-organized data and can do this sort of thing in a couple of minutes. A huge difference popped out.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve done enough deconstruction of Team and Mannian stuff that I don&#8217;t overlook the possibility of really goofy things like accidentally splicing unrelated series &#8211; this is not the first time. If you&#8217;re fresh to this corpus of material, it wouldn&#8217;t occur to you to be alert for this sort of thing.</p>
<p>So I looked for info on Harry &#8211; I googled &#8220;Harry AWS&#8221; and got to the Wisconsin site. It showed that HArry didn;t exist prior to 1994. So I was pretty sure on Sunday afternoon that they&#8217;d done something goofy and asked readers to look for a provenance of Harry data before it existed.  I posted up a script for scraping data from the Wisc website as well.</p>
<p>I went back just before bed and scraped all the files, the number of stations increased and varied by year, so the scraping was a little fiddly. I then looked through Jan-Feb values in a couple of years before Harry existed and found a match with Gill.  I then downloaded all the Gill series and found that all the imaginary Harry data came from Gill.</p>
<p>There was another way. Gill proved to be one series above Harry in the BAS list. Tim C noticed that the two BAS series were identical.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what Gavin did in his &#8220;independent&#8221; identification of the Gill provenance.  However, as noted above, for BAS purposes, the provenance of the bad data doesn&#8217;t matter; only that the data is bad &#8211; something that Gavin obviously didn&#8217;t &#8220;independently&#8221; notice.</p>
<p>As observed elsewhere, we later learned that Monaghan et al 2008, cited by Steig, observed that Harry data was &#8220;suspicious&#8221; but apparently took no steps to investigate or pin down these suspicions.</p>
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		<title>By: conard</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/02/02/when-harry-met-gill/#comment-174663</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[conard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 15:18:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=5054#comment-174663</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Having not paid attention to CA for a while I find that while I was away something of interest to me has occurred and I would appreciate a little guidance from the crowd here.

I have not read all of the comments here or at RC and am hoping that someone will provide a little more detail on how the problem was detected and ultimately identified.  The detail I am seeking is not so much who and when but how.  In lieu of reading every comment I did some searching and noticed that &quot;Tim C&quot; identified the problem but did not find any associated code.

I must admit that I have spent several hours playing with GISTEMP step0 and did not catch the error and I would like to enhance my emulation by screening the source data for errors of this nature.

Thanks]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having not paid attention to CA for a while I find that while I was away something of interest to me has occurred and I would appreciate a little guidance from the crowd here.</p>
<p>I have not read all of the comments here or at RC and am hoping that someone will provide a little more detail on how the problem was detected and ultimately identified.  The detail I am seeking is not so much who and when but how.  In lieu of reading every comment I did some searching and noticed that &#8220;Tim C&#8221; identified the problem but did not find any associated code.</p>
<p>I must admit that I have spent several hours playing with GISTEMP step0 and did not catch the error and I would like to enhance my emulation by screening the source data for errors of this nature.</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
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		<title>By: That famous consensus &#124; Lux Libertas - Light and Liberty</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/02/02/when-harry-met-gill/#comment-174662</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[That famous consensus &#124; Lux Libertas - Light and Liberty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 14:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=5054#comment-174662</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] And now as Andrew Bolt has noted Steve McIntyre, who with Ross McKitrick uncovered the ‘hockey-stick&#039; nonsense in the first place, has delivered the coup de grace to the Steig/Mann Antarctica claim. Steig used data from a weather station called Harry. Bolt observes: Harry in fact is a problematic site that was buried in snow for years and then re-sited in 2005. But, worse, the data that Steig used in his modelling which he claimed came from Harry was actually old data from another station on the Ross Ice Shelf known as Gill with new data from Harry added to it, producing the abrupt warming. The data is worthless. Or as McIntyre puts it: [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] And now as Andrew Bolt has noted Steve McIntyre, who with Ross McKitrick uncovered the ‘hockey-stick&#8217; nonsense in the first place, has delivered the coup de grace to the Steig/Mann Antarctica claim. Steig used data from a weather station called Harry. Bolt observes: Harry in fact is a problematic site that was buried in snow for years and then re-sited in 2005. But, worse, the data that Steig used in his modelling which he claimed came from Harry was actually old data from another station on the Ross Ice Shelf known as Gill with new data from Harry added to it, producing the abrupt warming. The data is worthless. Or as McIntyre puts it: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Vance Lunn</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/02/02/when-harry-met-gill/#comment-174661</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Vance Lunn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 02:09:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=5054#comment-174661</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One thing most people forget about antarctica is that anything on the surface of the ice MOVES with the ice.  I would think that the changing location of the station would automatically end any chance of determining temperature trends of 0.1 degree celcius.  The best that can be done is to pick up the equipment and relocate it back to its original position periodically.

Another thing...I keep a backyard weather station.  With no formal training other than my own hobby reading, I know to go out after it snows to clear off the temperature sensor shelter to get the most accurate low readings.  Maybe these guys also didn&#039;t realize that anything on the surface of the ice in Antarctica also gets BURIED over time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing most people forget about antarctica is that anything on the surface of the ice MOVES with the ice.  I would think that the changing location of the station would automatically end any chance of determining temperature trends of 0.1 degree celcius.  The best that can be done is to pick up the equipment and relocate it back to its original position periodically.</p>
<p>Another thing&#8230;I keep a backyard weather station.  With no formal training other than my own hobby reading, I know to go out after it snows to clear off the temperature sensor shelter to get the most accurate low readings.  Maybe these guys also didn&#8217;t realize that anything on the surface of the ice in Antarctica also gets BURIED over time.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim K</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/02/02/when-harry-met-gill/#comment-174660</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim K]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 21:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=5054#comment-174660</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-323872&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mike Bryant (#110)&lt;/a&gt;,
Mike,
I could not agree with you more.  The last time I looked at the Stimulus Bill, the global warming crowd is slated to get some $400-million disbursed from the same discredited agencies that have financed Steig, Mann and all the others.  In the real world of plumbers, welders, mechanics and other craftsmen these guys wouldn&#039;t get a nickel after the performances they&#039;ve turned in.

Let&#039;s start a movement to see that they don&#039;t.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-323872" rel="nofollow">Mike Bryant (#110)</a>,<br />
Mike,<br />
I could not agree with you more.  The last time I looked at the Stimulus Bill, the global warming crowd is slated to get some $400-million disbursed from the same discredited agencies that have financed Steig, Mann and all the others.  In the real world of plumbers, welders, mechanics and other craftsmen these guys wouldn&#8217;t get a nickel after the performances they&#8217;ve turned in.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s start a movement to see that they don&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: RomanM</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/02/02/when-harry-met-gill/#comment-174659</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RomanM]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 23:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=5054#comment-174659</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-325494&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Lucy Skywalker (#235)&lt;/a&gt;,
Hopefully it will be corrected before it is used in an analysis... ;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-325494" rel="nofollow">Lucy Skywalker (#235)</a>,<br />
Hopefully it will be corrected before it is used in an analysis&#8230; <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Lucy Skywalker</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/02/02/when-harry-met-gill/#comment-174658</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lucy Skywalker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 22:06:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=5054#comment-174658</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-325094&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;RomanM (#225)&lt;/a&gt;, looking for the missing Nic L post and finding it er, spliced, over at Carnage, made me laugh. Splicing? Lost data?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-325094" rel="nofollow">RomanM (#225)</a>, looking for the missing Nic L post and finding it er, spliced, over at Carnage, made me laugh. Splicing? Lost data?</p>
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