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	<title>Comments on: Dr Phil, Confidential Agent</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2009/08/04/dr-phil-confidential-agent/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/08/04/dr-phil-confidential-agent/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Dr Phil, Confidential Agent: Re-visited &#171; Climate Audit</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/08/04/dr-phil-confidential-agent/#comment-320137</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dr Phil, Confidential Agent: Re-visited &#171; Climate Audit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jan 2012 19:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=6691#comment-320137</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] of Energy (along the lines of a scenario that I contemplated in a CA post of Aug 4, 2009 entitled Dr Phil, Confidential Agent): In regards the information provided to the US Department of Energy, my investigation has revealed [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of Energy (along the lines of a scenario that I contemplated in a CA post of Aug 4, 2009 entitled Dr Phil, Confidential Agent): In regards the information provided to the US Department of Energy, my investigation has revealed [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Inquiry Disinformation about CRUTEM &#171; Climate Audit</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/08/04/dr-phil-confidential-agent/#comment-235948</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Inquiry Disinformation about CRUTEM &#171; Climate Audit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:20:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=6691#comment-235948</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] couple of other posts at the time of the Mole incident were here and Dr Phil, Confidential Agent , in which I observed that Jones, as a temperature accountant, was sort of the climate equivalent of [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] couple of other posts at the time of the Mole incident were here and Dr Phil, Confidential Agent , in which I observed that Jones, as a temperature accountant, was sort of the climate equivalent of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Clif C</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/08/04/dr-phil-confidential-agent/#comment-210892</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Clif C]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Dec 2009 20:21:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=6691#comment-210892</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[berbmit:
housekeeping: your link picked up the closing parentheses after .pdf, better is:
http://www.site.uottawa.ca/~cdrummon/pubs/ICMLws09.pdf

Apples and oranges. A model is not an experimental method. &lt;i&gt;The model is the result.&lt;/i&gt; Examining its &quot;fit&quot; to the real world tells others something about our understanding (or lack thereof) of a science. Also helps identify a discipline&#039;s gaps in the micro data. 

I&#039;m pretty sure this blog is not about replication of results. The model itself is what is important to the discipline and should be shared. There&#039;s quite a few finacial firms wondering what happened to them even though they bet the farm on the results of &lt;i&gt;proprietary&lt;/i&gt; econometric models.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>berbmit:<br />
housekeeping: your link picked up the closing parentheses after .pdf, better is:<br />
<a href="http://www.site.uottawa.ca/~cdrummon/pubs/ICMLws09.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.site.uottawa.ca/~cdrummon/pubs/ICMLws09.pdf</a></p>
<p>Apples and oranges. A model is not an experimental method. <i>The model is the result.</i> Examining its &#8220;fit&#8221; to the real world tells others something about our understanding (or lack thereof) of a science. Also helps identify a discipline&#8217;s gaps in the micro data. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m pretty sure this blog is not about replication of results. The model itself is what is important to the discipline and should be shared. There&#8217;s quite a few finacial firms wondering what happened to them even though they bet the farm on the results of <i>proprietary</i> econometric models.</p>
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		<title>By: Kayle Boomer</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/08/04/dr-phil-confidential-agent/#comment-189628</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kayle Boomer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 01:11:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=6691#comment-189628</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Steve

I couldn&#039;t find the grant yet, but it seems it would have been a response this request:

http://www.er.doe.gov/production/grants/fr98_15.html.

It&#039;s closed at the DOE grants page, but the request does provide the requirements for responses to the grant request.

Kayle]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve</p>
<p>I couldn&#8217;t find the grant yet, but it seems it would have been a response this request:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.er.doe.gov/production/grants/fr98_15.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.er.doe.gov/production/grants/fr98_15.html</a>.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s closed at the DOE grants page, but the request does provide the requirements for responses to the grant request.</p>
<p>Kayle</p>
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		<title>By: Taphonomic</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/08/04/dr-phil-confidential-agent/#comment-189627</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Taphonomic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:58:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=6691#comment-189627</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Steve,

Please see my comment at #85 and the comment at #66.  They provide a link to all info on this grant including dollar amount, recipients, papers published, etc.  #85 also goes into DOE/BER data sharing guidelines.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,</p>
<p>Please see my comment at #85 and the comment at #66.  They provide a link to all info on this grant including dollar amount, recipients, papers published, etc.  #85 also goes into DOE/BER data sharing guidelines.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Hughes</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/08/04/dr-phil-confidential-agent/#comment-189626</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Hughes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 23:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=6691#comment-189626</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-352257&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Steve McIntyre (#88)&lt;/a&gt;,

It looks like GF did with the URLs in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=6691#comment-351813&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this comment&lt;/a&gt;.

About 180k USD per year for 10 years.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-352257" rel="nofollow">Steve McIntyre (#88)</a>,</p>
<p>It looks like GF did with the URLs in <a href="http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=6691#comment-351813" rel="nofollow">this comment</a>.</p>
<p>About 180k USD per year for 10 years.</p>
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		<title>By: Calvin Ball</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/08/04/dr-phil-confidential-agent/#comment-189625</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Calvin Ball]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 22:11:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=6691#comment-189625</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I know that IP is a frowned-upon subject, and don&#039;t want to go there, but Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-352140&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Etienne (#83)&lt;/a&gt;, it&#039;s not anywhere near that simple. Nuff said.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know that IP is a frowned-upon subject, and don&#8217;t want to go there, but Re: <a href="#comment-352140" rel="nofollow">Etienne (#83)</a>, it&#8217;s not anywhere near that simple. Nuff said.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/08/04/dr-phil-confidential-agent/#comment-189624</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 17:04:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=6691#comment-189624</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was interested in how much money had been expended on grant DE-FG02-98ER62601 . No one seems to have made any progress on this. OFten grant amounts are open to the public. Maybe someone could write DOE and inquire how much money&#039;s been spent under this grant and obtain the terms of the grant.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was interested in how much money had been expended on grant DE-FG02-98ER62601 . No one seems to have made any progress on this. OFten grant amounts are open to the public. Maybe someone could write DOE and inquire how much money&#8217;s been spent under this grant and obtain the terms of the grant.</p>
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		<title>By: stan</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/08/04/dr-phil-confidential-agent/#comment-189623</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[stan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 16:43:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=6691#comment-189623</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jeff Id,

Agree that research paid for with tax money should be available to the public absent national security concerns.  But that is a side issue in the big public policy debate.  The key issue is whether public policy should ever be based on research which cannot be audited or replicated.  The answer should be a resounding no.  Doesn&#039;t matter who funded the research.  If the public cannot scrutinize the research for problems, it isn&#039;t fit to inform public decisions.

If scientist Smith wants to claim that he has discovered fact X but is unwilling to subject his work to scrutiny, fact X should never be accepted as true by governmment policy makers.  Fact X remains a mere hypothesis, an untested theory, which has not been proven -- regardless of who paid for scientist Smith&#039;s work.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff Id,</p>
<p>Agree that research paid for with tax money should be available to the public absent national security concerns.  But that is a side issue in the big public policy debate.  The key issue is whether public policy should ever be based on research which cannot be audited or replicated.  The answer should be a resounding no.  Doesn&#8217;t matter who funded the research.  If the public cannot scrutinize the research for problems, it isn&#8217;t fit to inform public decisions.</p>
<p>If scientist Smith wants to claim that he has discovered fact X but is unwilling to subject his work to scrutiny, fact X should never be accepted as true by governmment policy makers.  Fact X remains a mere hypothesis, an untested theory, which has not been proven &#8212; regardless of who paid for scientist Smith&#8217;s work.</p>
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		<title>By: David L. Hagen</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/08/04/dr-phil-confidential-agent/#comment-189622</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David L. Hagen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Aug 2009 19:11:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=6691#comment-189622</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-351908&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Corey S. (#79)&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;(d) (1) In addition, in response to a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request for research data relating to published research findings produced under an award &lt;b&gt;that were used by the Federal Government in developing an agency action that has the force and effect of law&lt;/b&gt;,&lt;/blockquote&gt;
If the EPA at all relies on &lt;a href=&quot;https://e-reports-ext.llnl.gov/pdf/308322.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Santer et al 2004, DOE Contract DE-FG02-98ER62601&lt;/a&gt; in their CO2 Endangerment Finding and subsequent ruling, then that clause would come into force and the data be obtained via FOIA. Similarly if the &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/D?d111:3:./temp/~bdRvzN:@@@L&amp;summ2=m&amp;&#124;/bss/111search.html&#124;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Waxman and Markey H.R.2454 Cap and Trade (Tax) bill&lt;/a&gt; becomes law.

Searching EPA Under Climate Change for &quot;Santer&quot; brings up: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/endangerment/downloads/TSD_Endangerment.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;[1] DRAFT 7/2/0704-17-2009, April 17, 2009 Technical Support Document, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency . . .&lt;/a&gt;

Wigley, T.M.L., V. Ramaswamy, J.R. Christy, J.R. Lanzante, C.A. Mears, B.D. &lt;b&gt;Santer,&lt;/b&gt; C.K. Folland, 2006: Executive Summary in Temperature Trends in the Lower Atmosphere: Steps for Understanding and Reconciling Differences. T. R. Karl, S. J. Hassol, C. D. Miller, and W. L. Murray, editors. A Report by the Climate Change Science Program and the Subcommittee on Global Change Research, Washington, DC.
So any Santer data relied on, included, or cited in Wigley 2006 may be applicable.
-------------------------------
PS Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-352140&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Etienne (#83)&lt;/a&gt;,
If you have the investment and keep the technology secret, then your method may be used. Otherwise, if the inventor &quot;knows&quot; that the invention will work, he may well file a provisional patent first, and then use that provisional patent to raise the commercial funds to build the prototype. See &lt;a href=&quot;http://search.nolo.com/query.html?qt=patent+it+yourself&amp;submit.x=0&amp;submit.y=0&amp;submit=search&amp;col=b2store&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Patent It Yourself&lt;/a&gt; David Pressman etc. Detailed modeling can provide the confidence that it will work.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-351908" rel="nofollow">Corey S. (#79)</a></p>
<blockquote><p>(d) (1) In addition, in response to a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request for research data relating to published research findings produced under an award <b>that were used by the Federal Government in developing an agency action that has the force and effect of law</b>,</p></blockquote>
<p>If the EPA at all relies on <a href="https://e-reports-ext.llnl.gov/pdf/308322.pdf" rel="nofollow">Santer et al 2004, DOE Contract DE-FG02-98ER62601</a> in their CO2 Endangerment Finding and subsequent ruling, then that clause would come into force and the data be obtained via FOIA. Similarly if the <a HREF="http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/D?d111:3:./temp/~bdRvzN:@@@L&amp;summ2=m&amp;|/bss/111search.html|" rel="nofollow">Waxman and Markey H.R.2454 Cap and Trade (Tax) bill</a> becomes law.</p>
<p>Searching EPA Under Climate Change for &#8220;Santer&#8221; brings up: <a href="http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/endangerment/downloads/TSD_Endangerment.pdf" rel="nofollow">[1] DRAFT 7/2/0704-17-2009, April 17, 2009 Technical Support Document, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency . . .</a></p>
<p>Wigley, T.M.L., V. Ramaswamy, J.R. Christy, J.R. Lanzante, C.A. Mears, B.D. <b>Santer,</b> C.K. Folland, 2006: Executive Summary in Temperature Trends in the Lower Atmosphere: Steps for Understanding and Reconciling Differences. T. R. Karl, S. J. Hassol, C. D. Miller, and W. L. Murray, editors. A Report by the Climate Change Science Program and the Subcommittee on Global Change Research, Washington, DC.<br />
So any Santer data relied on, included, or cited in Wigley 2006 may be applicable.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-<br />
PS Re: <a href="#comment-352140" rel="nofollow">Etienne (#83)</a>,<br />
If you have the investment and keep the technology secret, then your method may be used. Otherwise, if the inventor &#8220;knows&#8221; that the invention will work, he may well file a provisional patent first, and then use that provisional patent to raise the commercial funds to build the prototype. See <a href="http://search.nolo.com/query.html?qt=patent+it+yourself&amp;submit.x=0&amp;submit.y=0&amp;submit=search&amp;col=b2store" rel="nofollow">Patent It Yourself</a> David Pressman etc. Detailed modeling can provide the confidence that it will work.</p>
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