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	<title>Comments on: The CRU Gong Show: Refusing Ross McKitrick</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2009/08/13/cru-in-wonderland-refusing-ross-mckitrick/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/08/13/cru-in-wonderland-refusing-ross-mckitrick/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 03:49:34 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: More Untruthfulness from the U of East Anglia &#171; Climate Audit</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/08/13/cru-in-wonderland-refusing-ross-mckitrick/#comment-230749</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[More Untruthfulness from the U of East Anglia &#171; Climate Audit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 May 2010 15:29:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=6825#comment-230749</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] document&#8221; is online at CRU here. It was reported at CA on August 11, 2009 here, here and here (among [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] document&#8221; is online at CRU here. It was reported at CA on August 11, 2009 here, here and here (among [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: The Final Straw &#171; Watts Up With That?</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/08/13/cru-in-wonderland-refusing-ross-mckitrick/#comment-224557</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Final Straw &#171; Watts Up With That?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 09:18:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=6825#comment-224557</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] got from Jones, CRU started again with a series of denials again citing confidentiality agreements, inventing the terms of those agreements ex nihilo. Webster could have the data. McIntyre could [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] got from Jones, CRU started again with a series of denials again citing confidentiality agreements, inventing the terms of those agreements ex nihilo. Webster could have the data. McIntyre could [...]</p>
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		<title>By: curious</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/08/13/cru-in-wonderland-refusing-ross-mckitrick/#comment-218774</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[curious]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 18:55:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=6825#comment-218774</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This looks a good course offered by the Campaign for Freedom of Information in London on February the 4th:

http://www.cfoi.org.uk/pdf/foicoursefeb2010.pdf

http://www.cfoi.org.uk/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This looks a good course offered by the Campaign for Freedom of Information in London on February the 4th:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.cfoi.org.uk/pdf/foicoursefeb2010.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.cfoi.org.uk/pdf/foicoursefeb2010.pdf</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.cfoi.org.uk/" rel="nofollow">http://www.cfoi.org.uk/</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/08/13/cru-in-wonderland-refusing-ross-mckitrick/#comment-218305</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jonathan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 20:20:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=6825#comment-218305</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-191436&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jonathan (Nov 24 16:14)&lt;/a&gt;, in the light of recent developments at UEA I thought it might be interesting to reopen discussions with Mr Colam-French:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Dear Mr Colam-French,

(CC: Dave Palmer) 

Thank you for your email of 23 October 2009.  As you may already be aware I have appealed this refusal to the Information Commissioner.

I understand that UEA has now accepted the Information Commissioner’s decision that it has in the past mishandled some FOI requests referring to the CRU, and in these circumstances it seems only right to give you an opportunity to reconsider your decisions with regard to my request in the light of this new guidance.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Regards,

Jonathan
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
We&#039;ll see what happens!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-191436" rel="nofollow">Jonathan (Nov 24 16:14)</a>, in the light of recent developments at UEA I thought it might be interesting to reopen discussions with Mr Colam-French:</p>
<blockquote><p>
Dear Mr Colam-French,</p>
<p>(CC: Dave Palmer) </p>
<p>Thank you for your email of 23 October 2009.  As you may already be aware I have appealed this refusal to the Information Commissioner.</p>
<p>I understand that UEA has now accepted the Information Commissioner’s decision that it has in the past mishandled some FOI requests referring to the CRU, and in these circumstances it seems only right to give you an opportunity to reconsider your decisions with regard to my request in the light of this new guidance.</p>
<p>I look forward to hearing from you.</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Jonathan
</p></blockquote>
<p>We&#8217;ll see what happens!</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/08/13/cru-in-wonderland-refusing-ross-mckitrick/#comment-218186</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jonathan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 19:12:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=6825#comment-218186</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-217760&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;curious (Jan 25 08:27)&lt;/a&gt;, thanks for this.  While Bishop Hill above is entirely right in practice (there is no way they would ever sue me, or that they would win if they tried), I have been seeking to stay rigorously within the (remarkably restrictive) letter of the law.  However I find your argument, in essence that the VC is here acting in a semi-judicial role rather than a creative role, fairly convincing.  I am also much encouraged by the recently reported good decisions the ICO has been making.  So here is a transcript of the core of the VC&#039;s statement:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
FOI requests for research-related correspondence between Prof Phil Jones and others

18 Dec 2009

This is to confirm that in my opinion section 36(2) b i) and ii) should be applied in respect of FOI requests relating to correspondence between Prof Phil Jones and others on the basis that:

a) disclosure of this information would be likely to inhibit &quot;the free and frank exchange of views for the purpose of deliberation&quot;.

b) In particular I view the ability of academic staff to converse/correspond freely and frankly about their work with other academic and support staff as essential to the proper assessment and evaluation of research prior to publication, and in my opinion this outweighs the public interest in disclosure.

c) In my opinion this exemption should also apply to internal communications relating to the administration of FOIA requests.

Edward Acton

Vice Chancellor
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
If anyone would like to take any of this up with the ICO that&#039;s obviously fine by me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-217760" rel="nofollow">curious (Jan 25 08:27)</a>, thanks for this.  While Bishop Hill above is entirely right in practice (there is no way they would ever sue me, or that they would win if they tried), I have been seeking to stay rigorously within the (remarkably restrictive) letter of the law.  However I find your argument, in essence that the VC is here acting in a semi-judicial role rather than a creative role, fairly convincing.  I am also much encouraged by the recently reported good decisions the ICO has been making.  So here is a transcript of the core of the VC&#8217;s statement:</p>
<blockquote><p>
FOI requests for research-related correspondence between Prof Phil Jones and others</p>
<p>18 Dec 2009</p>
<p>This is to confirm that in my opinion section 36(2) b i) and ii) should be applied in respect of FOI requests relating to correspondence between Prof Phil Jones and others on the basis that:</p>
<p>a) disclosure of this information would be likely to inhibit &#8220;the free and frank exchange of views for the purpose of deliberation&#8221;.</p>
<p>b) In particular I view the ability of academic staff to converse/correspond freely and frankly about their work with other academic and support staff as essential to the proper assessment and evaluation of research prior to publication, and in my opinion this outweighs the public interest in disclosure.</p>
<p>c) In my opinion this exemption should also apply to internal communications relating to the administration of FOIA requests.</p>
<p>Edward Acton</p>
<p>Vice Chancellor
</p></blockquote>
<p>If anyone would like to take any of this up with the ICO that&#8217;s obviously fine by me.</p>
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		<title>By: curious</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/08/13/cru-in-wonderland-refusing-ross-mckitrick/#comment-217760</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[curious]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 13:27:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=6825#comment-217760</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bishop Hill: Agreed - Anyway doesn&#039;t copyright apply to &quot;creative works&quot;? Are they claiming the VC&#039;s opinion is of the status of a &quot;creative work&quot; or is it based on law, precedent or policy?

I would also think that FOI would qualify as an allowable act under the &quot;statutory enquiries&quot; exemption of para 8 item 6 here:

http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p01_uk_copyright_law

If it doesn&#039;t - what value FOI?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bishop Hill: Agreed &#8211; Anyway doesn&#8217;t copyright apply to &#8220;creative works&#8221;? Are they claiming the VC&#8217;s opinion is of the status of a &#8220;creative work&#8221; or is it based on law, precedent or policy?</p>
<p>I would also think that FOI would qualify as an allowable act under the &#8220;statutory enquiries&#8221; exemption of para 8 item 6 here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p01_uk_copyright_law" rel="nofollow">http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p01_uk_copyright_law</a></p>
<p>If it doesn&#8217;t &#8211; what value FOI?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Bishop Hill</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/08/13/cru-in-wonderland-refusing-ross-mckitrick/#comment-217752</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bishop Hill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 12:23:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=6825#comment-217752</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jonathan

It strikes me that this is a pretty outrageous step by UEA when they are already under investigation by the Information Commissioner. I was speaking to someone from the ICO&#039;s investigations team this morning, who might be interested in hearing about UEA&#039;s position on copyright.

Would you like me to call him? Drop me a line if you do.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan</p>
<p>It strikes me that this is a pretty outrageous step by UEA when they are already under investigation by the Information Commissioner. I was speaking to someone from the ICO&#8217;s investigations team this morning, who might be interested in hearing about UEA&#8217;s position on copyright.</p>
<p>Would you like me to call him? Drop me a line if you do.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Bishop Hill</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/08/13/cru-in-wonderland-refusing-ross-mckitrick/#comment-217750</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bishop Hill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 12:21:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=6825#comment-217750</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with Steve here. UK copyright law also allows fair use which would include making quotes. I think in order to make a breach of copyright claim stick, you have to show commercial loss.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Steve here. UK copyright law also allows fair use which would include making quotes. I think in order to make a breach of copyright claim stick, you have to show commercial loss.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/08/13/cru-in-wonderland-refusing-ross-mckitrick/#comment-217743</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jonathan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 10:39:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=6825#comment-217743</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-217398&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jonathan (Jan 23 13:31)&lt;/a&gt;, I have now emailed back
&lt;blockquote&gt;Thank you for your email, copy included below.

There has been some interest in the blogosphere in the contents of the letter from Prof. Acton given the extremely broad nature of the exemptions he is asserting.  Unfortunately discussion is difficult as UEA&#039;a claim of copyright over this material makes it difficult to provide an accurate account of his statements in their full context.  Of course individuals can acquire their own copy of the text by making their own FOI request, but to avoid an undue burden (which would fall largely on your office) it would be very helpful if UEA were to permit posting of a verbatim transcript of this letter.  Alternatively UEA might choose to place a copy of this letter on its own web pages and provide a link.

I would be grateful for your thoughts on this matter.&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-217398" rel="nofollow">Jonathan (Jan 23 13:31)</a>, I have now emailed back</p>
<blockquote><p>Thank you for your email, copy included below.</p>
<p>There has been some interest in the blogosphere in the contents of the letter from Prof. Acton given the extremely broad nature of the exemptions he is asserting.  Unfortunately discussion is difficult as UEA&#8217;a claim of copyright over this material makes it difficult to provide an accurate account of his statements in their full context.  Of course individuals can acquire their own copy of the text by making their own FOI request, but to avoid an undue burden (which would fall largely on your office) it would be very helpful if UEA were to permit posting of a verbatim transcript of this letter.  Alternatively UEA might choose to place a copy of this letter on its own web pages and provide a link.</p>
<p>I would be grateful for your thoughts on this matter.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/08/13/cru-in-wonderland-refusing-ross-mckitrick/#comment-217402</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jonathan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 18:55:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=6825#comment-217402</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-217398&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Jonathan (Jan 23 13:31)&lt;/a&gt;, Steve UK copyright law is considerably more restrictive than you might think, and as the letter is very brief even short extracts would make up a substantial portion of the whole.  Since I have an appeal in with the ICO I am also keen to play this by the letter of the rules, even (especially?) when they are silly.  Obviously if you obtain your own copy and post it that&#039;s your business.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-217398" rel="nofollow"> Jonathan (Jan 23 13:31)</a>, Steve UK copyright law is considerably more restrictive than you might think, and as the letter is very brief even short extracts would make up a substantial portion of the whole.  Since I have an appeal in with the ICO I am also keen to play this by the letter of the rules, even (especially?) when they are silly.  Obviously if you obtain your own copy and post it that&#8217;s your business.</p>
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