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	<title>Comments on: Kaufman et al: Obstructed by Thompson and Jacoby</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2009/09/12/the-making-of-kaufman-et-al-2009/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/09/12/the-making-of-kaufman-et-al-2009/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
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		<title>By: An Open Letter to Dr. Subra Suresh &#124; Watts Up With That?</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/09/12/the-making-of-kaufman-et-al-2009/#comment-248967</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[An Open Letter to Dr. Subra Suresh &#124; Watts Up With That?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Dec 2010 22:48:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7019#comment-248967</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Steve McIntyre&#8217;s now seven-year unsuccessful quest for Thompson&#8217;s elusive data, such as the widely cited but unarchived Himalayan ice core information for Dasupo, Dunde, and Gulaya, is detailed (inter alia) here, here, here, here, here, here, and here. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Steve McIntyre&#8217;s now seven-year unsuccessful quest for Thompson&#8217;s elusive data, such as the widely cited but unarchived Himalayan ice core information for Dasupo, Dunde, and Gulaya, is detailed (inter alia) here, here, here, here, here, here, and here. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Quote of the Week- you first, Dr. Thompson &#124; Watts Up With That?</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/09/12/the-making-of-kaufman-et-al-2009/#comment-240153</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Quote of the Week- you first, Dr. Thompson &#124; Watts Up With That?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Aug 2010 14:39:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7019#comment-240153</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Thompson if you leave Earth, will you leave the ice core data archives behind that Steve McIntyre has been asking for, for years [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Thompson if you leave Earth, will you leave the ice core data archives behind that Steve McIntyre has been asking for, for years [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Hu McCulloch</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/09/12/the-making-of-kaufman-et-al-2009/#comment-193796</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hu McCulloch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:51:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7019#comment-193796</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Bona Churchill data Loso sought is the promised outcome of a $599K NSF grant to Lonnie and Ellen Thompson.  For details see &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward.do?AwardNumber=0099311&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward.do?AwardNumber=0099311&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Bona Churchill data Loso sought is the promised outcome of a $599K NSF grant to Lonnie and Ellen Thompson.  For details see <a href="http://www.nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward.do?AwardNumber=0099311" rel="nofollow">http://www.nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward.do?AwardNumber=0099311</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan O</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/09/12/the-making-of-kaufman-et-al-2009/#comment-193795</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ryan O]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7019#comment-193795</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-356024&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;welikerocks (#53)&lt;/a&gt;, Indeed!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-356024" rel="nofollow">welikerocks (#53)</a>, Indeed!</p>
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		<title>By: welikerocks</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/09/12/the-making-of-kaufman-et-al-2009/#comment-193794</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[welikerocks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 12:52:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7019#comment-193794</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-355956&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ryan O (#48)&lt;/a&gt;,
And Henry too.

Actually I was being nice; because Steve didn&#039;t want any comment on motive. My conclusion after seeing the show?... Thompson&#039;s data is his legacy- then add what you both say to get the big picture.

Data becomes something other then it is meant to be. This seems to be contagious in climate science!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-355956" rel="nofollow">Ryan O (#48)</a>,<br />
And Henry too.</p>
<p>Actually I was being nice; because Steve didn&#8217;t want any comment on motive. My conclusion after seeing the show?&#8230; Thompson&#8217;s data is his legacy- then add what you both say to get the big picture.</p>
<p>Data becomes something other then it is meant to be. This seems to be contagious in climate science!</p>
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		<title>By: Hu McCulloch</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/09/12/the-making-of-kaufman-et-al-2009/#comment-193793</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hu McCulloch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 02:37:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7019#comment-193793</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[RE pete #51,&lt;blockquote&gt;Mathematically yes, but in practice the nearly-singular matrix will give you numerical problems.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
If so, you will encounter the same numerical problems trying to orthogonalize the regressors.

So no gain.

Unless, of course, you are willing to give lower priority to the lower ranking PCs, per Hotelling 1933, but contra Jolliffe 1982.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE pete #51,<br />
<blockquote>Mathematically yes, but in practice the nearly-singular matrix will give you numerical problems.</p></blockquote>
<p>If so, you will encounter the same numerical problems trying to orthogonalize the regressors.</p>
<p>So no gain.</p>
<p>Unless, of course, you are willing to give lower priority to the lower ranking PCs, per Hotelling 1933, but contra Jolliffe 1982.</p>
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		<title>By: pete</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/09/12/the-making-of-kaufman-et-al-2009/#comment-193792</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pete]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 01:17:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7019#comment-193792</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-355944&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Hu McCulloch (#45)&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;Orthogonalizing the regressors merely changes the basis for the space spanned by the regressors. OLS picks the same point from this space, and you get exactly the same forecasts, R2 and regression F test for the collective significance of the regressors.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Mathematically yes, but in practice the nearly-singular matrix will give you numerical problems.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-355944" rel="nofollow">Hu McCulloch (#45)</a></p>
<blockquote><p>Orthogonalizing the regressors merely changes the basis for the space spanned by the regressors. OLS picks the same point from this space, and you get exactly the same forecasts, R2 and regression F test for the collective significance of the regressors.</p></blockquote>
<p>Mathematically yes, but in practice the nearly-singular matrix will give you numerical problems.</p>
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		<title>By: Brooks Hurd</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/09/12/the-making-of-kaufman-et-al-2009/#comment-193791</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brooks Hurd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 21:37:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7019#comment-193791</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jacoby speaks of both quality data and good data. I believe that most people would agree that good data is of high quality.

Jacoby defines what he means by &quot;good data&quot;
&lt;blockquote&gt;If we get a good climatic story from a chronology, we write a paper using it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
He goes to say that he evaluates the quality of the data:
&lt;blockquote&gt;The quality can be evaluated at various steps in the development process. As we are mission oriented, we do not waste time on further analyses if it is apparent that the resulting chronology would be of inferior quality.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;It appears to me that Jacoby is definining data of inferior quality to be that which does not provide a good climatic story. It sadens me that Jacoby does not find fault with his reasoning.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jacoby speaks of both quality data and good data. I believe that most people would agree that good data is of high quality.</p>
<p>Jacoby defines what he means by &#8220;good data&#8221;</p>
<blockquote><p>If we get a good climatic story from a chronology, we write a paper using it.</p></blockquote>
<p>He goes to say that he evaluates the quality of the data:</p>
<blockquote><p>The quality can be evaluated at various steps in the development process. As we are mission oriented, we do not waste time on further analyses if it is apparent that the resulting chronology would be of inferior quality.
</p></blockquote>
<p>It appears to me that Jacoby is definining data of inferior quality to be that which does not provide a good climatic story. It sadens me that Jacoby does not find fault with his reasoning.</p>
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		<title>By: Calvin Ball</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/09/12/the-making-of-kaufman-et-al-2009/#comment-193790</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Calvin Ball]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 20:06:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7019#comment-193790</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;If we get a good climatic story from a chronology, we write a paper using it. That is our funded mission.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It just struck me reading that. That reads more like the mission of a publishing house than a scientific team. There&#039;s something intangibly &lt;em&gt;just plain wrong&lt;/em&gt; about the way he chose to express that. It&#039;s almost like he&#039;s talking about a sci-fi novel.

Does this choice of words on the framing level bother anyone else?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If we get a good climatic story from a chronology, we write a paper using it. That is our funded mission.</p></blockquote>
<p>It just struck me reading that. That reads more like the mission of a publishing house than a scientific team. There&#8217;s something intangibly <em>just plain wrong</em> about the way he chose to express that. It&#8217;s almost like he&#8217;s talking about a sci-fi novel.</p>
<p>Does this choice of words on the framing level bother anyone else?</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan O</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/09/12/the-making-of-kaufman-et-al-2009/#comment-193789</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ryan O]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7019#comment-193789</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-355946&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;welikerocks (#46)&lt;/a&gt;, The comment&#039;s not out of line so much as it is simply irrelevant.  It doesn&#039;t matter if he&#039;s a nice guy who works hard.  What matters is that his some of his conduct (regardless of motive) is an impediment to science.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-355946" rel="nofollow">welikerocks (#46)</a>, The comment&#8217;s not out of line so much as it is simply irrelevant.  It doesn&#8217;t matter if he&#8217;s a nice guy who works hard.  What matters is that his some of his conduct (regardless of motive) is an impediment to science.</p>
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