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<channel>
	<title>Comments on: AR4 WGIII Lead Authors&#039; Responses online &#8211; at last!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2009/10/14/ar4-wgiii-lead-authors-responses-online-at-last/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/10/14/ar4-wgiii-lead-authors-responses-online-at-last/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 19:12:55 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Geoff Sherrington</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/10/14/ar4-wgiii-lead-authors-responses-online-at-last/#comment-198759</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Geoff Sherrington]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 08:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7394#comment-198759</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For David Holland

Might you please consider sending me your private email. I have some information relevant to your efforts that might be material. Geoff Sherrington  sherro1 at optusnet dot com dot au.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For David Holland</p>
<p>Might you please consider sending me your private email. I have some information relevant to your efforts that might be material. Geoff Sherrington  sherro1 at optusnet dot com dot au.</p>
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		<title>By: Hal</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/10/14/ar4-wgiii-lead-authors-responses-online-at-last/#comment-198758</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 13:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7394#comment-198758</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-361315&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;David Holland (#13)&lt;/a&gt;,

Arrived in Los Angeles. 25 deg C is lovely after leaving Vienna in snow flurries.

I translated the introduction of the Brandenburg Province environmental Freedom of Information Act,Jul 2007 , (It&#039;s still in handwriting, I&#039;ll type it up later), I then read the whole thing and found that it

1. Primarily references the federal EFOIA 22 Dec 2004 of,
excepting Sec 6,para 1, 2; Sec 11 thru 14
2. Specifically includes provincial and municipal entities (section 6)
3. Cites local reporting requirements (Sec 11) and
provides a local fee structure (Sec 12-14)
4. Includes a sunset clause which vacates the act itself as of 31 Dec 2008
(In anticipation of a reconciliation between the environmental FOIA vs the general FOIA, which have conflicting provisions)

So I believe the federal EFOIA applies, (which you have in English, right?) and which is similar to the UK one, since both are based on the EU guidelines of 28 Jan 2003.

I will provide the translation of the introduction soon.

Meanwhile, if you have any specific questions, just ask.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-361315" rel="nofollow">David Holland (#13)</a>,</p>
<p>Arrived in Los Angeles. 25 deg C is lovely after leaving Vienna in snow flurries.</p>
<p>I translated the introduction of the Brandenburg Province environmental Freedom of Information Act,Jul 2007 , (It&#8217;s still in handwriting, I&#8217;ll type it up later), I then read the whole thing and found that it</p>
<p>1. Primarily references the federal EFOIA 22 Dec 2004 of,<br />
excepting Sec 6,para 1, 2; Sec 11 thru 14<br />
2. Specifically includes provincial and municipal entities (section 6)<br />
3. Cites local reporting requirements (Sec 11) and<br />
provides a local fee structure (Sec 12-14)<br />
4. Includes a sunset clause which vacates the act itself as of 31 Dec 2008<br />
(In anticipation of a reconciliation between the environmental FOIA vs the general FOIA, which have conflicting provisions)</p>
<p>So I believe the federal EFOIA applies, (which you have in English, right?) and which is similar to the UK one, since both are based on the EU guidelines of 28 Jan 2003.</p>
<p>I will provide the translation of the introduction soon.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, if you have any specific questions, just ask.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/10/14/ar4-wgiii-lead-authors-responses-online-at-last/#comment-198757</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fred]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 04:16:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7394#comment-198757</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[snip - please don&#039;t use this sort of language]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>snip &#8211; please don&#8217;t use this sort of language</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Henry</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/10/14/ar4-wgiii-lead-authors-responses-online-at-last/#comment-198756</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Henry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 01:56:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7394#comment-198756</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Then kudos to you David Holland I see I&#039;m also in the land of dragon slayers.  I pray that your efforts do not resemble Miguel Cervantes&#039;s Don Quixote futile tilling at windmills.

Henry]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then kudos to you David Holland I see I&#8217;m also in the land of dragon slayers.  I pray that your efforts do not resemble Miguel Cervantes&#8217;s Don Quixote futile tilling at windmills.</p>
<p>Henry</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Castles</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/10/14/ar4-wgiii-lead-authors-responses-online-at-last/#comment-198755</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ian Castles]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 01:16:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7394#comment-198755</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David (#41) and Goks (#42):

It is probably not a coincidence that WGII&#039;s AR4 archive has reappeared within days of the publication of David&#039;s related correspondence with the WGIII TSU, as detailed above.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David (#41) and Goks (#42):</p>
<p>It is probably not a coincidence that WGII&#8217;s AR4 archive has reappeared within days of the publication of David&#8217;s related correspondence with the WGIII TSU, as detailed above.</p>
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		<title>By: Indur Goklany</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/10/14/ar4-wgiii-lead-authors-responses-online-at-last/#comment-198754</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Indur Goklany]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 00:42:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7394#comment-198754</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Ian.

I had been looking for it just the other day but was unable to locate it. Of course, now I don&#039;t remember why.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Ian.</p>
<p>I had been looking for it just the other day but was unable to locate it. Of course, now I don&#8217;t remember why.</p>
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		<title>By: David Holland</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/10/14/ar4-wgiii-lead-authors-responses-online-at-last/#comment-198753</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Holland]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 20:26:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7394#comment-198753</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-361466&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ian Castles (#35)&lt;/a&gt;,
Thank you Ian,
The link to the new WGII must be recent. I looked when we first realised WGIII had disappeared. It raises a minor point that irks me.  Best practice is to put a last revised date on pages.

Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-361564&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mae (#39)&lt;/a&gt;,
Thanks Mae and others.  I have struggled a bit to keep up which leaves me wondering how Steve does it.

I will over the time get to know the differences between the UK and other European regulations, but Aarhus and the Directive are European law and I hope it is not just us dumb Brits that follow the rules. For instance Article 3(5)(b) of the Directive states:
&lt;blockquote&gt;officials are required to support the public in seeking access
to information&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Article 3(2) of Aarhus states:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Each Party shall endeavour to ensure that officials and authorities assist and provide guidance to the public in seeking access to information, in facilitating participation in decision-making and in seeking access to justice in environmental matters.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The answer to the cost issue has to be to get a court decision somewhere sometime to enforce the Aarhus articles on dissemination and participation.  But I know this is not easy. After 18 months I have not yet got CRU to admit that climate change is an environmental matter!

Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-361566&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Henry (#40)&lt;/a&gt;,
There is more than a little truth in what you say, but I never thought a certain Big Blue company would loose out to an upstart and I remember a wall that took some getting rid of.  Nobody has to fight this battle and shouldn&#039;t if they are looking for a quick victory.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-361466" rel="nofollow">Ian Castles (#35)</a>,<br />
Thank you Ian,<br />
The link to the new WGII must be recent. I looked when we first realised WGIII had disappeared. It raises a minor point that irks me.  Best practice is to put a last revised date on pages.</p>
<p>Re: <a href="#comment-361564" rel="nofollow">Mae (#39)</a>,<br />
Thanks Mae and others.  I have struggled a bit to keep up which leaves me wondering how Steve does it.</p>
<p>I will over the time get to know the differences between the UK and other European regulations, but Aarhus and the Directive are European law and I hope it is not just us dumb Brits that follow the rules. For instance Article 3(5)(b) of the Directive states:</p>
<blockquote><p>officials are required to support the public in seeking access<br />
to information</p></blockquote>
<p>Article 3(2) of Aarhus states:</p>
<blockquote><p>Each Party shall endeavour to ensure that officials and authorities assist and provide guidance to the public in seeking access to information, in facilitating participation in decision-making and in seeking access to justice in environmental matters.</p></blockquote>
<p>The answer to the cost issue has to be to get a court decision somewhere sometime to enforce the Aarhus articles on dissemination and participation.  But I know this is not easy. After 18 months I have not yet got CRU to admit that climate change is an environmental matter!</p>
<p>Re: <a href="#comment-361566" rel="nofollow">Henry (#40)</a>,<br />
There is more than a little truth in what you say, but I never thought a certain Big Blue company would loose out to an upstart and I remember a wall that took some getting rid of.  Nobody has to fight this battle and shouldn&#8217;t if they are looking for a quick victory.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mae</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/10/14/ar4-wgiii-lead-authors-responses-online-at-last/#comment-198752</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mae]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 19:06:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7394#comment-198752</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David:

This summary of the three kinds of German information acts (federal, state and environmental - of which there are 17!) also includes a brief comparison to the UK Freedom of Information act and concludes that the main difference lies in the help given to both the person making the request and the person/institution replying. In Germany you are on your own without access to official advice on how to ask for information and what to do if you are not happy with the reply.

BTW costs are mentioned as follows: the environmental act carries a maximum fee of 500 euros, the other ones 5-25 euros depending on the  request. the fee must be reasonable and proportionate and must not prevent the person seeking information from doing so based on financial restraints. Looking at the requested information in situ is always free of charge.

It also mentions specifically that there is no personal or territorial restriction applied when information is requested under any of the &lt;strong&gt;environmental&lt;/strong&gt; information acts and that they are the only ones out of the 30 in existence where the Aarhus convenion applies.

http://www.lda.brandenburg.de/media/lbm1.a.2628.de/Schomerus_090730_Text.pdf

Hope this helps!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David:</p>
<p>This summary of the three kinds of German information acts (federal, state and environmental &#8211; of which there are 17!) also includes a brief comparison to the UK Freedom of Information act and concludes that the main difference lies in the help given to both the person making the request and the person/institution replying. In Germany you are on your own without access to official advice on how to ask for information and what to do if you are not happy with the reply.</p>
<p>BTW costs are mentioned as follows: the environmental act carries a maximum fee of 500 euros, the other ones 5-25 euros depending on the  request. the fee must be reasonable and proportionate and must not prevent the person seeking information from doing so based on financial restraints. Looking at the requested information in situ is always free of charge.</p>
<p>It also mentions specifically that there is no personal or territorial restriction applied when information is requested under any of the <strong>environmental</strong> information acts and that they are the only ones out of the 30 in existence where the Aarhus convenion applies.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.lda.brandenburg.de/media/lbm1.a.2628.de/Schomerus_090730_Text.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.lda.brandenburg.de/media/lbm1.a.2628.de/Schomerus_090730_Text.pdf</a></p>
<p>Hope this helps!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: David L. Hagen</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/10/14/ar4-wgiii-lead-authors-responses-online-at-last/#comment-198751</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David L. Hagen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 16:26:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7394#comment-198751</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-361347&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;David L. Hagen (#20)&lt;/a&gt;,
&lt;strong&gt;Request&lt;/strong&gt; (to &lt;a href=&quot;http://ec.europa.eu/environment/aarhus/index.htm#contact&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;EC Aarhus Convention Contact&lt;/a&gt;)
Please direct me to documents and legislation on &lt;strong&gt;how the Aarhus Convention is applied to&lt;/strong&gt; and controlling on the &lt;strong&gt;United Nations.&lt;/strong&gt;

In particular I am seeking information on how the Aarhus mandates on &quot;Access to Information&quot; and &quot;Public Participation&quot; apply to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. In particular,
1) How is the public to access documents on the preparation of and reviews of IPCC documents being prepared?
2) How can the public participate in preparation of IPCC documents?

Thank you for your assistance.
---------------
&lt;strong&gt;Generic &quot;Answer&quot; Received&lt;/strong&gt;
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
&lt;strong&gt;This mailbox&lt;/strong&gt; exists as a means of replying to questions about the &lt;strong&gt;environmental policy of the European Union&lt;/strong&gt; so I can only give you information about the &lt;a href=&quot;http://ec.europa.eu/environment/aarhus/index.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;EU and the Aarhus Convention&lt;/a&gt;. (http://ec.europa.eu/environment/aarhus/index.htm)

The web site for the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.unece.org/env/pp/welcome.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;United Nations Economic Commission for Europe (UNECE) Convention on Access to Information, Public Participation in Decision-Making and Access to Justice in Environmental Matters&lt;/a&gt; (the Aarhus Convention) is at: http://www.unece.org/env/pp/welcome.html and its &lt;a href=&quot;http://aarhusclearinghouse.unece.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Clearing House&lt;/a&gt; is at: http://aarhusclearinghouse.unece.org/.

The &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ipcc.ch/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;web site of the IPCC&lt;/a&gt;, which &#039; ... reviews and assesses the most recent scientific, technical and socio-economic information produced worldwide relevant to the understanding of climate change...&#039; (http://www.ipcc.ch/organization/organization.htm) is at: http://www.ipcc.ch/ &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ipcc.ch/organization/organization.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Information about its organization&lt;/a&gt; is at: http://www.ipcc.ch/organization/organization.htm.

Sincerely,

Ann Maher
Information Centre
Environment Directorate-General
European Commission
Ann.Maher@ec.europa.eu
N.B. Disclaimer required under the terms and conditions of use of the internet and electronic mail from Commission equipment:
&#039;The views expressed are purely those of the writer and may not in any circumstances be regarded as stating an official position of the European Commission.&#039;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-361347" rel="nofollow">David L. Hagen (#20)</a>,<br />
<strong>Request</strong> (to <a href="http://ec.europa.eu/environment/aarhus/index.htm#contact" rel="nofollow">EC Aarhus Convention Contact</a>)<br />
Please direct me to documents and legislation on <strong>how the Aarhus Convention is applied to</strong> and controlling on the <strong>United Nations.</strong></p>
<p>In particular I am seeking information on how the Aarhus mandates on &#8220;Access to Information&#8221; and &#8220;Public Participation&#8221; apply to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. In particular,<br />
1) How is the public to access documents on the preparation of and reviews of IPCC documents being prepared?<br />
2) How can the public participate in preparation of IPCC documents?</p>
<p>Thank you for your assistance.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;<br />
<strong>Generic &#8220;Answer&#8221; Received</strong><br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<br />
<strong>This mailbox</strong> exists as a means of replying to questions about the <strong>environmental policy of the European Union</strong> so I can only give you information about the <a href="http://ec.europa.eu/environment/aarhus/index.htm" rel="nofollow">EU and the Aarhus Convention</a>. (<a href="http://ec.europa.eu/environment/aarhus/index.htm" rel="nofollow">http://ec.europa.eu/environment/aarhus/index.htm</a>)</p>
<p>The web site for the <a href="http://www.unece.org/env/pp/welcome.html" rel="nofollow">United Nations Economic Commission for Europe (UNECE) Convention on Access to Information, Public Participation in Decision-Making and Access to Justice in Environmental Matters</a> (the Aarhus Convention) is at: <a href="http://www.unece.org/env/pp/welcome.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.unece.org/env/pp/welcome.html</a> and its <a href="http://aarhusclearinghouse.unece.org/" rel="nofollow">Clearing House</a> is at: <a href="http://aarhusclearinghouse.unece.org/" rel="nofollow">http://aarhusclearinghouse.unece.org/</a>.</p>
<p>The <a href="http://www.ipcc.ch/" rel="nofollow">web site of the IPCC</a>, which &#8216; &#8230; reviews and assesses the most recent scientific, technical and socio-economic information produced worldwide relevant to the understanding of climate change&#8230;&#8217; (<a href="http://www.ipcc.ch/organization/organization.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.ipcc.ch/organization/organization.htm</a>) is at: <a href="http://www.ipcc.ch/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ipcc.ch/</a> <a href="http://www.ipcc.ch/organization/organization.htm" rel="nofollow">Information about its organization</a> is at: <a href="http://www.ipcc.ch/organization/organization.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.ipcc.ch/organization/organization.htm</a>.</p>
<p>Sincerely,</p>
<p>Ann Maher<br />
Information Centre<br />
Environment Directorate-General<br />
European Commission<br />
<a href="mailto:Ann.Maher@ec.europa.eu">Ann.Maher@ec.europa.eu</a><br />
N.B. Disclaimer required under the terms and conditions of use of the internet and electronic mail from Commission equipment:<br />
&#8216;The views expressed are purely those of the writer and may not in any circumstances be regarded as stating an official position of the European Commission.&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Treadgold</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/10/14/ar4-wgiii-lead-authors-responses-online-at-last/#comment-198750</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Treadgold]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 10:50:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7394#comment-198750</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-361404&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Steve McIntyre (#29)&lt;/a&gt;.

Incredible. Arrogant. Short-lived.

Truth will prevail &#8211; thanks for the summary!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-361404" rel="nofollow">Steve McIntyre (#29)</a>.</p>
<p>Incredible. Arrogant. Short-lived.</p>
<p>Truth will prevail &ndash; thanks for the summary!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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