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	<title>Comments on: Another Correction from Upside Down Mann</title>
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	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/07/another-correction-from-upside-down-mann/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
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		<title>By: AMac</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/07/another-correction-from-upside-down-mann/#comment-292282</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AMac]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jun 2011 17:50:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7662#comment-292282</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[On June 21, 2011, I wrote &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2011/06/17/climate-critics-that-wont-muzzle-themselves/comment-page-3/#comment-65784&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a comment&lt;/a&gt; at &lt;em&gt;Collide-a-scape&lt;/em&gt; on the use of a paleotemperature reconstruction in the new Kemp et al. paper on sea level variations.  I cross-post most of it here, as it seems relevant to the (continuing) Tiljander saga.

- - - - - - - - - 

Yesterday, Kemp et al. 2011 was published in PNAS, relating sea-level variation to climate over the past 1,600 years (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.upenn.edu/pennnews/news/penn-researchers-link-fastest-sea-level-rise-two-millennia-increasing-temperatures&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;UPenn press release&lt;/a&gt;).  Among the authors is Prof. Mann.  (&lt;a href=&quot;http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/06/20/manns-new-sea-level-hockey-stick-paper/#more-41951&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Kemp11 is downloadable from WUWT.&lt;/a&gt;)  Figs. 2A and 4A are &quot;Composite EIV global land plus ocean global temperature reconstruction, smoothed with a 30-year LOESS low-pass filter&quot;.  This is one of the multiproxy reconstructions in Mann et al. (2008, PNAS).  The unsmoothed tracing appears as the black line labelled &quot;Composite (with uncertainties)&quot; in panel F of Fig. S6 of the &quot;Supporting Information&quot; supplement to Mann08 (dowonloadable from pnas.org).

This is one of the Mann08 reconstructions that made use of the four (actually three) uncalibratable Tiljander data series.

As scientist/blogger Gavin Schmidt has indicated, the early years of the EIV Global reconstruction rely heavily on Tiljander to pass its &quot;validation&quot; test:  &quot;...it&#039;s worth pointing out that validation for the no-dendro/no-Tilj is quite sensitive to the required significance, for EIV NH Land+Ocean it goes back to 1500 for 95%, but 1300 for 94% and 1100 AD for 90%&quot; (&lt;a href=&quot;http://amac1.blogspot.com/2010/08/comment-on-mw10-submitted-to.html#more&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;link&lt;/a&gt;).  Also see RealClimate &lt;a href=&quot;http://amac1.blogspot.com/2010/08/comment-on-mw10-submitted-to.html#more&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; (Gavin&#039;s responses to comments 525, 529, and 531).

The dependence of the first two-thirds of the EIV recon on the inclusion of Tiljander&#039;s data series isn&#039;t mentioned in the text of Kemp11.  Nor is it discussed in the SI, although it is an obvious and trivial explanation for the pre-1100 divergence noted in the SI&#039;s Figures S3, S4, and S5.

Peer review appears to have been missing in action on this glaring shortcoming in Kemp11&#039;s methodology.

More than anything, I am surprised by this zombie-like re-appearance of the Tiljander data series -- nearly three years after the eruption of the controversy over their misuse as temperature proxies!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On June 21, 2011, I wrote <a href="http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2011/06/17/climate-critics-that-wont-muzzle-themselves/comment-page-3/#comment-65784" rel="nofollow">a comment</a> at <em>Collide-a-scape</em> on the use of a paleotemperature reconstruction in the new Kemp et al. paper on sea level variations.  I cross-post most of it here, as it seems relevant to the (continuing) Tiljander saga.</p>
<p>- &#8211; - &#8211; - &#8211; - &#8211; - </p>
<p>Yesterday, Kemp et al. 2011 was published in PNAS, relating sea-level variation to climate over the past 1,600 years (<a href="http://www.upenn.edu/pennnews/news/penn-researchers-link-fastest-sea-level-rise-two-millennia-increasing-temperatures" rel="nofollow">UPenn press release</a>).  Among the authors is Prof. Mann.  (<a href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/06/20/manns-new-sea-level-hockey-stick-paper/#more-41951" rel="nofollow">Kemp11 is downloadable from WUWT.</a>)  Figs. 2A and 4A are &#8220;Composite EIV global land plus ocean global temperature reconstruction, smoothed with a 30-year LOESS low-pass filter&#8221;.  This is one of the multiproxy reconstructions in Mann et al. (2008, PNAS).  The unsmoothed tracing appears as the black line labelled &#8220;Composite (with uncertainties)&#8221; in panel F of Fig. S6 of the &#8220;Supporting Information&#8221; supplement to Mann08 (dowonloadable from pnas.org).</p>
<p>This is one of the Mann08 reconstructions that made use of the four (actually three) uncalibratable Tiljander data series.</p>
<p>As scientist/blogger Gavin Schmidt has indicated, the early years of the EIV Global reconstruction rely heavily on Tiljander to pass its &#8220;validation&#8221; test:  &#8220;&#8230;it&#8217;s worth pointing out that validation for the no-dendro/no-Tilj is quite sensitive to the required significance, for EIV NH Land+Ocean it goes back to 1500 for 95%, but 1300 for 94% and 1100 AD for 90%&#8221; (<a href="http://amac1.blogspot.com/2010/08/comment-on-mw10-submitted-to.html#more" rel="nofollow">link</a>).  Also see RealClimate <a href="http://amac1.blogspot.com/2010/08/comment-on-mw10-submitted-to.html#more" rel="nofollow">here</a> (Gavin&#8217;s responses to comments 525, 529, and 531).</p>
<p>The dependence of the first two-thirds of the EIV recon on the inclusion of Tiljander&#8217;s data series isn&#8217;t mentioned in the text of Kemp11.  Nor is it discussed in the SI, although it is an obvious and trivial explanation for the pre-1100 divergence noted in the SI&#8217;s Figures S3, S4, and S5.</p>
<p>Peer review appears to have been missing in action on this glaring shortcoming in Kemp11&#8242;s methodology.</p>
<p>More than anything, I am surprised by this zombie-like re-appearance of the Tiljander data series &#8212; nearly three years after the eruption of the controversy over their misuse as temperature proxies!</p>
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		<title>By: EUR/GBP Weekly Outlook &#8211; Forex Trading, Currency Forecast, FX &#8230; &#124; Pound Sterling Currency Herald</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/07/another-correction-from-upside-down-mann/#comment-210594</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[EUR/GBP Weekly Outlook &#8211; Forex Trading, Currency Forecast, FX &#8230; &#124; Pound Sterling Currency Herald]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 22:49:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[[...] Another Correction from Upside Down Mann « Climate Audit [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Another Correction from Upside Down Mann « Climate Audit [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Is Global Warming Unstoppable? - Page 47 - PriusChat Forums</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/07/another-correction-from-upside-down-mann/#comment-209347</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Is Global Warming Unstoppable? - Page 47 - PriusChat Forums]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 15:09:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7662#comment-209347</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] For example, the use of the Tiljander proxy data UPSIDE DOWN!  Here is some reading material:  Another Correction from Upside Down Mann Climate Audit [Welcome to our new home!] Upside-Side Down Mann and the &quot;peerreviewedliterature&quot; Climate Audit [Welcome to our new [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] For example, the use of the Tiljander proxy data UPSIDE DOWN!  Here is some reading material:  Another Correction from Upside Down Mann Climate Audit [Welcome to our new home!] Upside-Side Down Mann and the &quot;peerreviewedliterature&quot; Climate Audit [Welcome to our new [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lloyd</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/07/another-correction-from-upside-down-mann/#comment-201365</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lloyd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:09:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7662#comment-201365</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-365156&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Chris Savage (#36)&lt;/a&gt;,

Not sure if you are refering to the report on this page...

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200506/ldselect/ldeconaf/ldeconaf.htm]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-365156" rel="nofollow">Chris Savage (#36)</a>,</p>
<p>Not sure if you are refering to the report on this page&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200506/ldselect/ldeconaf/ldeconaf.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200506/ldselect/ldeconaf/ldeconaf.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Chris Savage</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/07/another-correction-from-upside-down-mann/#comment-201364</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris Savage]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:13:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7662#comment-201364</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have been looking again at the UK House of Lords Economic Affairs Committee 2005 report on Climate Change.  As readers may know this is very balanced and thorough - and therefore largely ignored.

They looked at the hockey stick debate and concluded that they were not qualified to give a view, but did comment that &quot;One curious feature of the debate over Professor Mann&#039;s time series is that the critics appear to ignore other studies which secure similar hockey stick pictures&quot;.  The report&#039;s footnote to this is to:  K. Briffa et al. Low frequency temperature variations from a northern tree ring density network. Journal of Geophysical Research, 106, (D3), 2001, 2929-41. Hilarious.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been looking again at the UK House of Lords Economic Affairs Committee 2005 report on Climate Change.  As readers may know this is very balanced and thorough &#8211; and therefore largely ignored.</p>
<p>They looked at the hockey stick debate and concluded that they were not qualified to give a view, but did comment that &#8220;One curious feature of the debate over Professor Mann&#8217;s time series is that the critics appear to ignore other studies which secure similar hockey stick pictures&#8221;.  The report&#8217;s footnote to this is to:  K. Briffa et al. Low frequency temperature variations from a northern tree ring density network. Journal of Geophysical Research, 106, (D3), 2001, 2929-41. Hilarious.</p>
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		<title>By: UC</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/07/another-correction-from-upside-down-mann/#comment-201363</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[UC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 21:42:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7662#comment-201363</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-364828&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jean S (#360)&lt;/a&gt;,


&lt;blockquote&gt;Interesting, if one checks the reconstruction without UC&#039;s &quot;red paint&quot;, it seems that MWP values are higher than current values, and early values are skyrocketing. So the Tiljander series and bristlecones do indeed &quot;matter&quot;, don&#039;t they?&lt;/blockquote&gt;


AD1000 temperatures seem to get some boost when one skips Tiljanders and dendro, and even more when the both are dropped. No Tiljander, forget the Mann-Smoothed-hemispheric-scaling ( hey, Kaufman had a better method *), no red paint =  no HS ?

* with some problems http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7005]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-364828" rel="nofollow">Jean S (#360)</a>,</p>
<blockquote><p>Interesting, if one checks the reconstruction without UC&#8217;s &#8220;red paint&#8221;, it seems that MWP values are higher than current values, and early values are skyrocketing. So the Tiljander series and bristlecones do indeed &#8220;matter&#8221;, don&#8217;t they?</p></blockquote>
<p>AD1000 temperatures seem to get some boost when one skips Tiljanders and dendro, and even more when the both are dropped. No Tiljander, forget the Mann-Smoothed-hemispheric-scaling ( hey, Kaufman had a better method *), no red paint =  no HS ?</p>
<p>* with some problems <a href="http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7005" rel="nofollow">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7005</a></p>
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		<title>By: AMac</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/07/another-correction-from-upside-down-mann/#comment-201362</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AMac]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 12:12:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7662#comment-201362</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-365059&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;pete m (#33)&lt;/a&gt;,

&gt; Amac - 26 - Are the proxy weights relevant to your query?

My understanding of these issues isn&#039;t adequate to answer.

The concept is that the 810-850 valley is a prominent feature of the anomaly trace.  According to Jean S (#8 supra), the addition of the four Lake Korttajarvi series is the only pre-1700 difference between the Fig. S8a &quot;NH CPS minus 7&quot; trace (Black) and the &quot;Original CPS NH&quot; trace (Green).  Given that there is no obvious &quot;cooler&quot; or &quot;warmer&quot; signal in those series (with respect to, say, 750-800 and 850-900), the coincidence of Black and Green is notable.

That superpositioning is likely the consequence of the absence of a 810-850 dip for temperatures calculated by RegEM for the grid box that covers Finland.

So my question becomes, is there a way to identify that grid box and the RegEM-calculated temperature anomalies for that box?  If so, that series could be graphed against the Lake Korttajarvi proxies, 750-900.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-365059" rel="nofollow">pete m (#33)</a>,</p>
<p>&gt; Amac &#8211; 26 &#8211; Are the proxy weights relevant to your query?</p>
<p>My understanding of these issues isn&#8217;t adequate to answer.</p>
<p>The concept is that the 810-850 valley is a prominent feature of the anomaly trace.  According to Jean S (#8 supra), the addition of the four Lake Korttajarvi series is the only pre-1700 difference between the Fig. S8a &#8220;NH CPS minus 7&#8243; trace (Black) and the &#8220;Original CPS NH&#8221; trace (Green).  Given that there is no obvious &#8220;cooler&#8221; or &#8220;warmer&#8221; signal in those series (with respect to, say, 750-800 and 850-900), the coincidence of Black and Green is notable.</p>
<p>That superpositioning is likely the consequence of the absence of a 810-850 dip for temperatures calculated by RegEM for the grid box that covers Finland.</p>
<p>So my question becomes, is there a way to identify that grid box and the RegEM-calculated temperature anomalies for that box?  If so, that series could be graphed against the Lake Korttajarvi proxies, 750-900.</p>
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		<title>By: pete m</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/07/another-correction-from-upside-down-mann/#comment-201361</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pete m]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 10:48:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7662#comment-201361</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Another error&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Interesting choice of words.

Rather than say Corrigendum 1, 2 etc, so you can track how many, we just get a date and &quot;Another&quot;.

Not a good look in any event, &quot;Another!&quot;

Amac - 26 - Are the proxy weights relevant to your query?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Another error</p></blockquote>
<p>Interesting choice of words.</p>
<p>Rather than say Corrigendum 1, 2 etc, so you can track how many, we just get a date and &#8220;Another&#8221;.</p>
<p>Not a good look in any event, &#8220;Another!&#8221;</p>
<p>Amac &#8211; 26 &#8211; Are the proxy weights relevant to your query?</p>
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		<title>By: PaulM</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/07/another-correction-from-upside-down-mann/#comment-201360</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PaulM]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 10:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7662#comment-201360</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-364974&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Keith W. (#18)&lt;/a&gt;, Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-364980&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Craig Loehle (#19)&lt;/a&gt;,
It is quite amazing that he is still drawing the &#039;instrumental&#039; line in a thick red line on top, in an attempt to hide what is (or is not) happening underneath.  Keith, if you click on Mann&#039;s pdf version at the top link (not Steves graph), you can zoom in a lot and see that when you compare apples with apples, the cyan line only goes up to about 0.2, so that present temperatures are about the same as the MWP.
I think the dataset used for the red line is CRUTEM (ie land only) Northern Hemisphere.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-364974" rel="nofollow">Keith W. (#18)</a>, Re: <a href="#comment-364980" rel="nofollow">Craig Loehle (#19)</a>,<br />
It is quite amazing that he is still drawing the &#8216;instrumental&#8217; line in a thick red line on top, in an attempt to hide what is (or is not) happening underneath.  Keith, if you click on Mann&#8217;s pdf version at the top link (not Steves graph), you can zoom in a lot and see that when you compare apples with apples, the cyan line only goes up to about 0.2, so that present temperatures are about the same as the MWP.<br />
I think the dataset used for the red line is CRUTEM (ie land only) Northern Hemisphere.</p>
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		<title>By: John Baltutis</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/07/another-correction-from-upside-down-mann/#comment-201359</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Baltutis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 08:13:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7662#comment-201359</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry, posted the same time John corrected it. John, you can delete mine.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, posted the same time John corrected it. John, you can delete mine.</p>
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