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	<title>Comments on: Devi et al 2009</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/07/devi-et-al-2009/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/07/devi-et-al-2009/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: New climate data term: &#8220;bodge&#8221; &#124; Watts Up With That?</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/07/devi-et-al-2009/#comment-259504</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[New climate data term: &#8220;bodge&#8221; &#124; Watts Up With That?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:03:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7689#comment-259504</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] term “bodge” was used for the first time in a comment (not a post) on November 8, 2009 by me here less than two weeks before Climategate). I had noticed the term “Briffa bodge” in a preprint of [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] term “bodge” was used for the first time in a comment (not a post) on November 8, 2009 by me here less than two weeks before Climategate). I had noticed the term “Briffa bodge” in a preprint of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Muir Russell and the Briffa Bodge &#124; Another Newyork Times</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/07/devi-et-al-2009/#comment-259483</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Muir Russell and the Briffa Bodge &#124; Another Newyork Times]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Mar 2011 02:41:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7689#comment-259483</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] &#8220;bodge&#8221; was used for the first time in a comment (not a post) on November 8, 2009 by me here less than two weeks before Climategate). I had noticed the term &#8220;Briffa bodge&#8221; in a [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8220;bodge&#8221; was used for the first time in a comment (not a post) on November 8, 2009 by me here less than two weeks before Climategate). I had noticed the term &#8220;Briffa bodge&#8221; in a [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Muir Russell and the Briffa Bodge &#171; Climate Audit</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/07/devi-et-al-2009/#comment-259420</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Muir Russell and the Briffa Bodge &#171; Climate Audit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Mar 2011 18:27:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7689#comment-259420</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] &#8220;bodge&#8221; was used for the first time in a comment (not a post) on November 8, 2009 by me here less than two weeks before Climategate). I had noticed the term &#8220;Briffa bodge&#8221; in a [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8220;bodge&#8221; was used for the first time in a comment (not a post) on November 8, 2009 by me here less than two weeks before Climategate). I had noticed the term &#8220;Briffa bodge&#8221; in a [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: a reader</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/07/devi-et-al-2009/#comment-201481</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[a reader]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:24:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7689#comment-201481</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Available on google books preview (some pages missing):

Methods of Dendrochronology:Applications in the Environmental Sciences.
Editors: Cook and Kairiukstis 1992
Chapter 2.4  Dendroclimatological Study of Prostrate Woody Plants.

May be of interest.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Available on google books preview (some pages missing):</p>
<p>Methods of Dendrochronology:Applications in the Environmental Sciences.<br />
Editors: Cook and Kairiukstis 1992<br />
Chapter 2.4  Dendroclimatological Study of Prostrate Woody Plants.</p>
<p>May be of interest.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/07/devi-et-al-2009/#comment-201480</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 19:45:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7689#comment-201480</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-365432&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;bender (#112)&lt;/a&gt;,

Yes - Payette is very good at discussing the full range of potential factors affecting tree growth, from water availability and forest fires to bug infestations and regional disturbances, in addition to potential temperature changes.  Unlike some others in the field, though, he is quite prepared to accept that, for the areas he is studying, the data shows there was a MWP and a LIA, and he is not trying to &quot;eliminate&quot; them. I&#039;m not in a position to comment on how well (or if) he quantifies the different effects, though.  I&#039;ve certainly not waded through all of his available work, which appears to stretch back to the 1980s.

His list of publications is long; there is at least one where he is a coauthor, along with Rob Wilson &amp; others, of an article that tries to make sense of the  divergence issue:  Wilson, R, D&#039;Arrigo. R, Buckley, Büntgen, U, Esper, J, Frank, D, Luckman, B, Payette, S., Vose, R. and Youngblut, D. A matter of divergence: tracking recent warming at hemispheric scales using tree-ring data. 2007. Journal of Geophysical Research, 112.  That paper I think was examined by Steve (not surprisingly!) at: www.climateaudit.org/?p=1834.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-365432" rel="nofollow">bender (#112)</a>,</p>
<p>Yes &#8211; Payette is very good at discussing the full range of potential factors affecting tree growth, from water availability and forest fires to bug infestations and regional disturbances, in addition to potential temperature changes.  Unlike some others in the field, though, he is quite prepared to accept that, for the areas he is studying, the data shows there was a MWP and a LIA, and he is not trying to &#8220;eliminate&#8221; them. I&#8217;m not in a position to comment on how well (or if) he quantifies the different effects, though.  I&#8217;ve certainly not waded through all of his available work, which appears to stretch back to the 1980s.</p>
<p>His list of publications is long; there is at least one where he is a coauthor, along with Rob Wilson &amp; others, of an article that tries to make sense of the  divergence issue:  Wilson, R, D&#8217;Arrigo. R, Buckley, Büntgen, U, Esper, J, Frank, D, Luckman, B, Payette, S., Vose, R. and Youngblut, D. A matter of divergence: tracking recent warming at hemispheric scales using tree-ring data. 2007. Journal of Geophysical Research, 112.  That paper I think was examined by Steve (not surprisingly!) at: <a href="http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1834" rel="nofollow">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1834</a>.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: EW</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/07/devi-et-al-2009/#comment-201479</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[EW]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 13:43:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7689#comment-201479</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Anyway, looking on Google pictures showing лесныe массивы we can safely conclude, that these are dense older forests often covering vast areas.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyway, looking on Google pictures showing лесныe массивы we can safely conclude, that these are dense older forests often covering vast areas.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: EW</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/07/devi-et-al-2009/#comment-201478</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[EW]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 13:36:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7689#comment-201478</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-365275&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Just an EE (#109)&lt;/a&gt;,
Try it:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Для лесных массивов характерно образование на молодом аллювии высокоплотных и продуктивных древостоев, не типичных для высоких широт.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Forest (adjective) massives (subject)...can&#039;t help it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-365275" rel="nofollow">Just an EE (#109)</a>,<br />
Try it:</p>
<blockquote><p>Для лесных массивов характерно образование на молодом аллювии высокоплотных и продуктивных древостоев, не типичных для высоких широт.</p></blockquote>
<p>Forest (adjective) massives (subject)&#8230;can&#8217;t help it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: bender</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/07/devi-et-al-2009/#comment-201477</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bender]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 05:43:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7689#comment-201477</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-365427&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ian (#111)&lt;/a&gt;,

&lt;blockquote&gt;climate at tree line was drier and warmer before 900 cal. yr BP&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Keep this thought in mind ...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-365427" rel="nofollow">Ian (#111)</a>,</p>
<blockquote><p>climate at tree line was drier and warmer before 900 cal. yr BP</p></blockquote>
<p>Keep this thought in mind &#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/07/devi-et-al-2009/#comment-201476</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 03:33:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7689#comment-201476</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Payette seems firmly convinced about the MWP and LIA from his reconstructions.  In Payette, Filion and Delwaide, “Spatially explicit fire-climate history of the boreal forest-tundra (Eastern Canada) over the last 2000 years,” Phil. Trans. R. Soc. B (2008) 363, 2301–2316, they had this to say (at p. 2309):

“As was the case in our study, the magnitude and timing of post-fire deforestation throughout the northern boreal biome were closely linked to the climatic deterioration that prevailed during the Little Ice Age (Overpeck et al. 1997), i.e. after the Medieval Warmth (ca 900–1200 years ago) and before recent warming commencing at the end of the nineteenth century. The lack of post-fire spruce regeneration from 900 cal. yr BP to present is a direct indication that climatic conditions deteriorated after the Medieval Warmth. According to the distribution of fire dates and tree regeneration, the climate at the tree line was drier and warmer before 900 cal. yr BP.

	[…]

According to fire and tree regeneration data from our study, the northern part of the forest tundra in Eastern Canada has been heavily deforested over the last millennium. The main direct cause is climate deterioration coinciding with the phasing-out of the Medieval Warmth and incidence of the Little Ice Age.”]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Payette seems firmly convinced about the MWP and LIA from his reconstructions.  In Payette, Filion and Delwaide, “Spatially explicit fire-climate history of the boreal forest-tundra (Eastern Canada) over the last 2000 years,” Phil. Trans. R. Soc. B (2008) 363, 2301–2316, they had this to say (at p. 2309):</p>
<p>“As was the case in our study, the magnitude and timing of post-fire deforestation throughout the northern boreal biome were closely linked to the climatic deterioration that prevailed during the Little Ice Age (Overpeck et al. 1997), i.e. after the Medieval Warmth (ca 900–1200 years ago) and before recent warming commencing at the end of the nineteenth century. The lack of post-fire spruce regeneration from 900 cal. yr BP to present is a direct indication that climatic conditions deteriorated after the Medieval Warmth. According to the distribution of fire dates and tree regeneration, the climate at the tree line was drier and warmer before 900 cal. yr BP.</p>
<p>	[…]</p>
<p>According to fire and tree regeneration data from our study, the northern part of the forest tundra in Eastern Canada has been heavily deforested over the last millennium. The main direct cause is climate deterioration coinciding with the phasing-out of the Medieval Warmth and incidence of the Little Ice Age.”</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: bender</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/07/devi-et-al-2009/#comment-201475</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bender]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:45:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7689#comment-201475</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-365272&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;PatrickG (#108)&lt;/a&gt;,
Using artesanal dendrospeak, a six-sigma uptick is a definitive &quot;JOLT&quot;. Perhaps Jim Bouldin or Delayed Oscillator would care to elaborate? Guys, what&#039;s a &quot;JOLT&quot;?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-365272" rel="nofollow">PatrickG (#108)</a>,<br />
Using artesanal dendrospeak, a six-sigma uptick is a definitive &#8220;JOLT&#8221;. Perhaps Jim Bouldin or Delayed Oscillator would care to elaborate? Guys, what&#8217;s a &#8220;JOLT&#8221;?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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