Comments on: Yet another Upside Down Mann out http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/27/yet-another-upside-down-mann-out/ by Steve McIntyre Thu, 16 Feb 2012 03:49:34 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: Militant Libertarian » Mann Threatens Lawsuit Against Video Exposing His Hockey Stick http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/27/yet-another-upside-down-mann-out/#comment-228474 Thu, 22 Apr 2010 02:23:05 +0000 http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7855#comment-228474 [...] highly critical reviews of his work 5. Need to prove that it is ok for Mann to continue to flip temperature proxies upside down even in his latest papers, even though this egregious error has already been pointed out to him in the past and which he [...]

]]> By: Mann Threatens Lawsuit Against Video Exposing His Hockey Stick | .....Aaron's EnvironMental Corner..... http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/27/yet-another-upside-down-mann-out/#comment-228382 Wed, 21 Apr 2010 14:21:52 +0000 http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7855#comment-228382 [...] highly critical reviews of his work 5. Need to prove that it is ok for Mann to continue to flip temperature proxies upside down even in his latest papers, even though this egregious error has already been pointed out to him in the past and which he [...]

]]> By: Mann Threatens Lawsuit Against Video Exposing His Hockey Stick | Sovereign Independent http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/27/yet-another-upside-down-mann-out/#comment-228378 Wed, 21 Apr 2010 13:46:41 +0000 http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7855#comment-228378 [...] highly critical reviews of his work 5. Need to prove that it is ok for Mann to continue to flip temperature proxies upside down even in his latest papers, even though this egregious error has already been pointed out to him in the past and which he [...]

]]> By: Mann Threatens Lawsuit Against Video Exposing His Hockey Stick « climategate.tv http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/27/yet-another-upside-down-mann-out/#comment-228312 Tue, 20 Apr 2010 21:45:03 +0000 http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7855#comment-228312 [...] highly critical reviews of his work 5. Need to prove that it is ok for Mann to continue to flip temperature proxies upside down even in his latest papers, even though this egregious error has already been pointed out to him in the past and which he [...]

]]> By: clivere http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/27/yet-another-upside-down-mann-out/#comment-216099 Fri, 15 Jan 2010 21:32:59 +0000 http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7855#comment-216099 Given past discussion and now that Climategate is settling down I wonder if this is worth a revisit.

Despite prior disagreement I personally am still of the opinion that on matters relating specifically to Tiljander we are dealing with an ignorant man.

Probably we can all agree that at the outset he chose Tiljander because he liked the look of the muck without realising it was perverse.

I still take the view that the man did not watch Saturday Night Live and nobody who watched it told him about it. The man admits in Climategate that he rarely looks here.

For a long time until September 2009 Saturday Night Live was the only broadcast where the perverse nature of the muck was highlighted.

In the paper that Steve and Ross wrote they had limited space so they only explained Tiljander was upside down. They did not describe that Tiljander was perverse.

The man in his reply thought he had a gotcha – of course you can have upside down muck!

Privately the man did have a problem with upside down muck. According to his methods the upside muck should have been dumped.

In his new paper the man was still determined to use the upside down muck because it still looks really nice. Still had no knowledge that the muck is perverse.

In order to validly use the muck he invented a two sided bucket so Steve and Ross have no further grounds for complaint.

In September 2009 following Steve’s intervention (and according to Climategate) Kaufman explains to the mans friends that there is an issue with upside down muck. He is encouraged to contact the man (who we know has an awful temper and reacts badly to criticism) and appears to do so with some trepidation in a 3rd email.

Exam question – where in the literature is it described that Tiljander is perverse and how it impacts the three studies to date that use it?

]]> By: Patagon http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/27/yet-another-upside-down-mann-out/#comment-208169 Fri, 11 Dec 2009 14:56:53 +0000 http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7855#comment-208169 It is not only an upside down series, to me they disregard a rich dataset for many parts of the world. Mann and others reconstruction of a colder Central Europe and South America during the MWP is in contradiction to these studies:

in Chile:

A quantitative high-temperature reconstruction sedimentary pigment Aculeo, central Chile,
Gunten and others
The Holocene 19,6 (2009) pp. 1–9
http://hol.sagepub.com/cgi/content/short/19/6/873

in Europa:

Grosjean and others 2007
Ice-borne prehistoric finds in the Swiss Alps reflect Holocene glacier fluctuations
JOURNAL OF QUATERNARY SCIENCE (2007) 22(3) 203–207
http://www.geography.unibe.ch/lenya/giub/live/research/see/publikationen/articles/Grosjean_et_el_2007_JQS.pdf

Holzhauser et al. 2005
Glacier and lake-level variations in west-central Europe over the last 3500 years
The Holocene 15,6 (2005) pp. 789 /801
http://www.giub.unibe.ch/klimet/docs/climdyn_2005_Holzhauser_et_al.pdf

In continental South America about 30°S they have adjacent cells with maximum positive and maximum negative anomalies, they are continental, not by the sea, that is difficult to explain.

]]> By: Simeon http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/27/yet-another-upside-down-mann-out/#comment-207506 Wed, 09 Dec 2009 02:11:43 +0000 http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7855#comment-207506 Steve,
Can you replace the input data with a whole stream of say -0.1C, run the code, and plot what the code spits out?

]]> By: The Michael Mann Non-Response « SOYLENT GREEN http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/27/yet-another-upside-down-mann-out/#comment-203397 Thu, 03 Dec 2009 03:29:43 +0000 http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7855#comment-203397 [...] responding to the scandal. Naturally he’s not asked about his “new” paper with the same deliberate, upside-down graph he used before. This guy is [...]

]]> By: dougie http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/27/yet-another-upside-down-mann-out/#comment-203396 Thu, 03 Dec 2009 00:27:49 +0000 http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7855#comment-203396 Re: Bishop Hill (#125),

then you should take the high road & check the tree line :)
i’ll take the low road & make it up as i go (hard work, but you clarify things for me) thanks for your good work on this & continue please.
ps. i’m a Scot & only look for the facts/best science on this.

]]> By: Observer http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/27/yet-another-upside-down-mann-out/#comment-203395 Wed, 02 Dec 2009 19:40:00 +0000 http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7855#comment-203395 To Jean S and Steve Mc:
What you can do is to write up a small paper, in which you detail out all the incorrect handling and other unscientific manipulation of the data reported in Mann et al’s papers. Submit it as a comment to Science. If it does not work, go for another journal like the open-access Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics Discussion. There, people can openly discuss the pro and cons of any paper submitted. If you have a valid point, this may be the best thing to do. Simply writing blogs like this does help, but it is not loud enough.

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