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	<title>Comments on: Nature Anti-FOI Editorial Criticized</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2010/01/12/nature-anti-foi-editorial-criticized/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/01/12/nature-anti-foi-editorial-criticized/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 11:17:24 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Geoff Sherrington</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/01/12/nature-anti-foi-editorial-criticized/#comment-216985</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Geoff Sherrington]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 09:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=9855#comment-216985</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah. If you are smart enough you don&#039;t need foul language to win.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah. If you are smart enough you don&#8217;t need foul language to win.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Mosher</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/01/12/nature-anti-foi-editorial-criticized/#comment-216966</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steven Mosher]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 06:06:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=9855#comment-216966</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[rules of the road here. we dont talk about the &quot;F&quot; word, much.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rules of the road here. we dont talk about the &#8220;F&#8221; word, much.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimchip</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/01/12/nature-anti-foi-editorial-criticized/#comment-216884</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jimchip]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 20:27:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=9855#comment-216884</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-216882&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Steven Mosher (Jan 20 15:23)&lt;/a&gt;,

I&#039;ll let you do it but quite awhile ago, when realclimate was born, they mentioned EMS and Fenton and the hairs on the back of my neck stood up. I was always wary...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-216882" rel="nofollow">Steven Mosher (Jan 20 15:23)</a>,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll let you do it but quite awhile ago, when realclimate was born, they mentioned EMS and Fenton and the hairs on the back of my neck stood up. I was always wary&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Mosher</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/01/12/nature-anti-foi-editorial-criticized/#comment-216882</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steven Mosher]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 20:23:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=9855#comment-216882</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I havent even started on the PR angles on this.....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I havent even started on the PR angles on this&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Jimchip</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/01/12/nature-anti-foi-editorial-criticized/#comment-216881</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jimchip]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 20:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=9855#comment-216881</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-216865&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;DD (Jan 20 14:29)&lt;/a&gt;, 

&quot;...Those who favour individualism over egalitarianism are more likely to reject evidence of climate change and calls to restrict emissions. And the messenger matters perhaps just as much as the message. People have more trust in experts — and scientists — when they sense that the speaker shares their values. The climate-research community would thus do well to use a diverse set of voices, from different backgrounds, when communicating with policy-makers and the public. And scientists should be careful not to disparage those on the other side of a debate: &lt;strong&gt;a respectful tone makes it easier for people to change their minds if they share something in common with that other side&lt;/strong&gt;.&quot;

They could follow their own advice, sheesh.

&quot;...As comforting as it may be to think that the best evidence will eventually convince the public on its own, climate scientists can no longer afford to make that naive assumption: people consider many factors beyond facts when making decisions. Even as climate science advances, &lt;strong&gt;it will be just as important to invest in research on how best to communicate environmental risks&lt;/strong&gt;. Otherwise scientific knowledge will not have the role that it should in the shaping of public policy.&quot;

They don&#039;t need to invest in research. Just get those top PR firms involved. They&#039;ve done the research and have the experience. Hmmm, maybe one of those firms wrote the editorial, part of the Nature damage-control project. Just a thought.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-216865" rel="nofollow">DD (Jan 20 14:29)</a>, </p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;Those who favour individualism over egalitarianism are more likely to reject evidence of climate change and calls to restrict emissions. And the messenger matters perhaps just as much as the message. People have more trust in experts — and scientists — when they sense that the speaker shares their values. The climate-research community would thus do well to use a diverse set of voices, from different backgrounds, when communicating with policy-makers and the public. And scientists should be careful not to disparage those on the other side of a debate: <strong>a respectful tone makes it easier for people to change their minds if they share something in common with that other side</strong>.&#8221;</p>
<p>They could follow their own advice, sheesh.</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;As comforting as it may be to think that the best evidence will eventually convince the public on its own, climate scientists can no longer afford to make that naive assumption: people consider many factors beyond facts when making decisions. Even as climate science advances, <strong>it will be just as important to invest in research on how best to communicate environmental risks</strong>. Otherwise scientific knowledge will not have the role that it should in the shaping of public policy.&#8221;</p>
<p>They don&#8217;t need to invest in research. Just get those top PR firms involved. They&#8217;ve done the research and have the experience. Hmmm, maybe one of those firms wrote the editorial, part of the Nature damage-control project. Just a thought.</p>
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		<title>By: DD</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/01/12/nature-anti-foi-editorial-criticized/#comment-216865</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DD]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 19:29:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=9855#comment-216865</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nature has just done it again.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v463/n7279/full/463269a.html

I find this line from the editorial particularly galling:

 &quot;The small coterie of individuals who deny humanity&#039;s influence on climate will try to use any perceived flaw in the evidence to discredit the entire picture. &quot;

The person who wrote this obviously has no clue how science actually works. In fact, it is usually the &#039;percieved flaws&#039; that  are responsible for questioning current models. Doubt and uncertainties are what leads to progress. Without them, we get idiots saying things like &#039;The science is settled&#039;. Science is never settled!

Nature is fast losing credibility, at least in my eyes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nature has just done it again.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v463/n7279/full/463269a.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v463/n7279/full/463269a.html</a></p>
<p>I find this line from the editorial particularly galling:</p>
<p> &#8220;The small coterie of individuals who deny humanity&#8217;s influence on climate will try to use any perceived flaw in the evidence to discredit the entire picture. &#8221;</p>
<p>The person who wrote this obviously has no clue how science actually works. In fact, it is usually the &#8216;percieved flaws&#8217; that  are responsible for questioning current models. Doubt and uncertainties are what leads to progress. Without them, we get idiots saying things like &#8216;The science is settled&#8217;. Science is never settled!</p>
<p>Nature is fast losing credibility, at least in my eyes.</p>
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		<title>By: avfuktare vindar</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/01/12/nature-anti-foi-editorial-criticized/#comment-216379</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[avfuktare vindar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 09:45:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=9855#comment-216379</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Nicolas (and others). I find the paper from Nerem et al to be a bit disturbing. They happily admit that they started to search for errors when the expected outcome was not reached, and continued to develop their model until it was &quot;validated&quot;, i.e. agreed with IPCC values. They may of course be right but the methodology clearly is pray to expectation bias. (The same can probably be said of Mörners work, except that he focuses more on observation than modelling.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Nicolas (and others). I find the paper from Nerem et al to be a bit disturbing. They happily admit that they started to search for errors when the expected outcome was not reached, and continued to develop their model until it was &#8220;validated&#8221;, i.e. agreed with IPCC values. They may of course be right but the methodology clearly is pray to expectation bias. (The same can probably be said of Mörners work, except that he focuses more on observation than modelling.)</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff Sherrington</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/01/12/nature-anti-foi-editorial-criticized/#comment-216344</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Geoff Sherrington]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 02:08:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=9855#comment-216344</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Labouring a point on sea level rise acceleration, please read  1168921050.txt from the CRU emails.

&gt; &gt;Peter Lemke wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt;Dear Colleagues,
&gt; &gt;&gt;please find enclosed a ppt-file addressing issues of Chapter 4.
&gt; &gt;&gt;Slide 1: addresses SPM-312 and 314. I suggest to accept 312. The 
&gt; &gt;&gt;figure (4.15 from the chapter) indicates an increased rate of 
&gt; &gt;&gt;change after about 1990. But I do not think that we have an 
&gt; &gt;&gt;indication of an acceleration (continuously increasing rate of 
&gt; &gt;&gt;change).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Labouring a point on sea level rise acceleration, please read  1168921050.txt from the CRU emails.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;Peter Lemke wrote:<br />
&gt; &gt;&gt;Dear Colleagues,<br />
&gt; &gt;&gt;please find enclosed a ppt-file addressing issues of Chapter 4.<br />
&gt; &gt;&gt;Slide 1: addresses SPM-312 and 314. I suggest to accept 312. The<br />
&gt; &gt;&gt;figure (4.15 from the chapter) indicates an increased rate of<br />
&gt; &gt;&gt;change after about 1990. But I do not think that we have an<br />
&gt; &gt;&gt;indication of an acceleration (continuously increasing rate of<br />
&gt; &gt;&gt;change).</p>
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		<title>By: enough</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/01/12/nature-anti-foi-editorial-criticized/#comment-216335</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[enough]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 23:28:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=9855#comment-216335</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[and the real sea level rise is...............?


The headline Colorado number 3.3 mm/yr
http://sealevel.colorado.edu/

The Colorado/NOAA AGU Jason calibation number 2.6 mm/yr
http://ibis.grdl.noaa.gov/~leuliett/presentations/agu_2002f.pdf
(last page)

University of Nottingham theses 1.0 mm/yr
Very comprehensive GPS Calibrated Tidal Gage system in England
(last page)
http://etheses.nottingham.ac.uk/27/


The big picture
sea Level over the past 10,000 years
http://books.google.com/books?id=yt0eAYwqn-QC&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;dq=sea+level+holocene&amp;cd=4#v=onepage&amp;q=&amp;f=false
go to page 2

Willis 2008 agu paper

Now 1.25 mm/yr
http://www.cosis.net/abstracts/EGU2008/11414/EGU2008-A-11414-1.pdf?PHPSESSID=ff496b94e85dbd60ba8faa82b4ceed9e]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and the real sea level rise is&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;?</p>
<p>The headline Colorado number 3.3 mm/yr<br />
<a href="http://sealevel.colorado.edu/" rel="nofollow">http://sealevel.colorado.edu/</a></p>
<p>The Colorado/NOAA AGU Jason calibation number 2.6 mm/yr<br />
<a href="http://ibis.grdl.noaa.gov/~leuliett/presentations/agu_2002f.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://ibis.grdl.noaa.gov/~leuliett/presentations/agu_2002f.pdf</a><br />
(last page)</p>
<p>University of Nottingham theses 1.0 mm/yr<br />
Very comprehensive GPS Calibrated Tidal Gage system in England<br />
(last page)<br />
<a href="http://etheses.nottingham.ac.uk/27/" rel="nofollow">http://etheses.nottingham.ac.uk/27/</a></p>
<p>The big picture<br />
sea Level over the past 10,000 years<br />
<a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=yt0eAYwqn-QC&#038;printsec=frontcover&#038;dq=sea+level+holocene&#038;cd=4#v=onepage&#038;q=&#038;f=false" rel="nofollow">http://books.google.com/books?id=yt0eAYwqn-QC&#038;printsec=frontcover&#038;dq=sea+level+holocene&#038;cd=4#v=onepage&#038;q=&#038;f=false</a><br />
go to page 2</p>
<p>Willis 2008 agu paper</p>
<p>Now 1.25 mm/yr<br />
<a href="http://www.cosis.net/abstracts/EGU2008/11414/EGU2008-A-11414-1.pdf?PHPSESSID=ff496b94e85dbd60ba8faa82b4ceed9e" rel="nofollow">http://www.cosis.net/abstracts/EGU2008/11414/EGU2008-A-11414-1.pdf?PHPSESSID=ff496b94e85dbd60ba8faa82b4ceed9e</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: enough</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/01/12/nature-anti-foi-editorial-criticized/#comment-216334</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[enough]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 23:13:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=9855#comment-216334</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When you wonder on to the Nature climate blog these days, you have to take a second look to convince yourself you did not accidentally end up on the Green Peace site. No objectivity what so ever....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you wonder on to the Nature climate blog these days, you have to take a second look to convince yourself you did not accidentally end up on the Green Peace site. No objectivity what so ever&#8230;.</p>
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