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	<title>Comments on: Jonathan Leake of the Sunday Times and the Jones et al Amendment</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2010/01/27/jonathan-leake-of-the-sunday-times-and-the-jones-et-al-amendment/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/01/27/jonathan-leake-of-the-sunday-times-and-the-jones-et-al-amendment/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 19:12:55 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: brent</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/01/27/jonathan-leake-of-the-sunday-times-and-the-jones-et-al-amendment/#comment-220205</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[brent]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Feb 2010 04:31:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=9947#comment-220205</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jones on FOI requests


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article7017905.ece]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jones on FOI requests</p>
<p><a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article7017905.ece" rel="nofollow">http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article7017905.ece</a></p>
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		<title>By: Hugh</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/01/27/jonathan-leake-of-the-sunday-times-and-the-jones-et-al-amendment/#comment-219148</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hugh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:30:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=9947#comment-219148</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Have you ever come across the Environmental Information Regulations 2004 (SI 2004/3391),in particular pt.2 reg.4,to see if it has any bearing on all this?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you ever come across the Environmental Information Regulations 2004 (SI 2004/3391),in particular pt.2 reg.4,to see if it has any bearing on all this?</p>
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		<title>By: bobdenton</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/01/27/jonathan-leake-of-the-sunday-times-and-the-jones-et-al-amendment/#comment-218925</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bobdenton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 13:15:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=9947#comment-218925</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No. The law is relatively straight forward. S77 FoIA 2000 creates 6 offences ( alteration, defacement, blocking, erasure, destruction or concealment of  any relevant  record ) all of which are triable summarily only (before a Magistrates Court) and carry a maximum penalty of £5000. Imprisonment is not an available disposal. S127 of the Magistrates Court Act 1980, which says “a magistrates’ court shall not try an information or hear a complaint unless the information was laid, or the complaint made, within 6 months from the time when the offence was committed, or the matter of complaint arose”, applies to all 6 offences. So, the information must be laid within 6 months of the commission of act complained of. The only gloss on this is that if the offence is a “continuing offence” time runs only from the moment the offence ceased. Thus alteration, defacement, erasure and destruction cannot be tried if complaint is made 6 months after the day on which those acts are done. Blocking and concealment, however, are “continuing offences” and time only starts to run when the blocking or concealment ceases, which can be when a third party makes the record available.

It is not possible to say whether the Information Commissioner’s opinion is correct or not, no detail of the facts on which he relies has been disclosed. The Commissioner, of course, is not a prosecuting authority. Presumably he simply refers, what he considers prima facie cases, to the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) to consider prosecution. We do not know whether this has been done or what advice was received from the CPS if it was. If this has not been done it should be done.

More generally, given the systematic approach to non-disclosure agreed between the academic staff and the UAE FOI officers, which amounts to a joint enterprise, it is difficult to believe that all the information improperly blocked or concealed as a result this joint enterprise has been unblocked or revealed not less than 6 months ago. That would require a detailed factual examination. There may be prosecutions in respect of the non disclosures in response to requests by others than David Holland.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No. The law is relatively straight forward. S77 FoIA 2000 creates 6 offences ( alteration, defacement, blocking, erasure, destruction or concealment of  any relevant  record ) all of which are triable summarily only (before a Magistrates Court) and carry a maximum penalty of £5000. Imprisonment is not an available disposal. S127 of the Magistrates Court Act 1980, which says “a magistrates’ court shall not try an information or hear a complaint unless the information was laid, or the complaint made, within 6 months from the time when the offence was committed, or the matter of complaint arose”, applies to all 6 offences. So, the information must be laid within 6 months of the commission of act complained of. The only gloss on this is that if the offence is a “continuing offence” time runs only from the moment the offence ceased. Thus alteration, defacement, erasure and destruction cannot be tried if complaint is made 6 months after the day on which those acts are done. Blocking and concealment, however, are “continuing offences” and time only starts to run when the blocking or concealment ceases, which can be when a third party makes the record available.</p>
<p>It is not possible to say whether the Information Commissioner’s opinion is correct or not, no detail of the facts on which he relies has been disclosed. The Commissioner, of course, is not a prosecuting authority. Presumably he simply refers, what he considers prima facie cases, to the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) to consider prosecution. We do not know whether this has been done or what advice was received from the CPS if it was. If this has not been done it should be done.</p>
<p>More generally, given the systematic approach to non-disclosure agreed between the academic staff and the UAE FOI officers, which amounts to a joint enterprise, it is difficult to believe that all the information improperly blocked or concealed as a result this joint enterprise has been unblocked or revealed not less than 6 months ago. That would require a detailed factual examination. There may be prosecutions in respect of the non disclosures in response to requests by others than David Holland.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/01/27/jonathan-leake-of-the-sunday-times-and-the-jones-et-al-amendment/#comment-218561</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 01:53:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=9947#comment-218561</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A question for readers: I&#039;m 99.999% certain that I saw a copy of the Graham Smith statement as a News Release at the Information Commissioner&#039;s Office website www.ico.gov.uk/.  When I looked at their press releases today, I didn&#039;t see such a press release. Did anyone else notice whether the statement was posted at the www.ico.gov.uk/ website and keep a copy of this version?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A question for readers: I&#8217;m 99.999% certain that I saw a copy of the Graham Smith statement as a News Release at the Information Commissioner&#8217;s Office website <a href="http://www.ico.gov.uk/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ico.gov.uk/</a>.  When I looked at their press releases today, I didn&#8217;t see such a press release. Did anyone else notice whether the statement was posted at the <a href="http://www.ico.gov.uk/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ico.gov.uk/</a> website and keep a copy of this version?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Larkin</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/01/27/jonathan-leake-of-the-sunday-times-and-the-jones-et-al-amendment/#comment-218538</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Larkin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 23:11:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=9947#comment-218538</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There is something very odd indeed about the statement by the Information Commission on its investigation into &quot;Climategate&quot;, the leak of emails from East Anglia&#039;s Climatic Research Unit. Gordon Smith, the deputy commissioner, confirms that the university&#039;s refusal to answer legitimate inquiries made in 2007 and 2008 was an offence under S.77 of the Information Act. But he goes on to claim that the Commission is powerless to bring charges, thanks to a loophole in the law – &quot;because the legislation requires action within six months of the offence taking place&quot;.

Careful examination of the Act, however, shows that it says nothing whatever about a time limit. The Commission appears to be trying to confuse this with a provision of the Magistrates Act, that charges for an offence cannot be brought more than six months after it has been drawn to the authorities&#039; attention – not after it was committed. In this case, the Commission only became aware of the offence two months ago when the emails were leaked – showing that the small group of British and American scientists at the top of the IPCC were discussing with each other and with the university ways to break the law, not least by destroying evidence, an offence in itself.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/7113552/Climategate-confusion-over-the-law-in-email-case.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is something very odd indeed about the statement by the Information Commission on its investigation into &#8220;Climategate&#8221;, the leak of emails from East Anglia&#8217;s Climatic Research Unit. Gordon Smith, the deputy commissioner, confirms that the university&#8217;s refusal to answer legitimate inquiries made in 2007 and 2008 was an offence under S.77 of the Information Act. But he goes on to claim that the Commission is powerless to bring charges, thanks to a loophole in the law – &#8220;because the legislation requires action within six months of the offence taking place&#8221;.</p>
<p>Careful examination of the Act, however, shows that it says nothing whatever about a time limit. The Commission appears to be trying to confuse this with a provision of the Magistrates Act, that charges for an offence cannot be brought more than six months after it has been drawn to the authorities&#8217; attention – not after it was committed. In this case, the Commission only became aware of the offence two months ago when the emails were leaked – showing that the small group of British and American scientists at the top of the IPCC were discussing with each other and with the university ways to break the law, not least by destroying evidence, an offence in itself.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/7113552/Climategate-confusion-over-the-law-in-email-case.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/7113552/Climategate-confusion-over-the-law-in-email-case.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Robert Christopher</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/01/27/jonathan-leake-of-the-sunday-times-and-the-jones-et-al-amendment/#comment-218495</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Christopher]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 14:07:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=9947#comment-218495</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here is another letter, in the Daily Telegraph this time, published: 12:02AM GMT 30 Jan 2010, supporting Lord Lawson’s call for an independent inquiry into globalwarming predictions: 

Testing climate prediction

SIR – Your criticism of the predictions by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (Leading article, January 26) raises questions over the reliability of published scientific research.
In reaching its conclusions, the IPCC has to rely on published papers. The hallmark of a good paper is that it has been peer-reviewed and published in a journal with a high academic reputation.
But that does not mean that the results it contains meet the standard of proof required in a legal inquiry. After exhaustive investigations of the Flixborough chemical plant explosion, for example, the Court of Inquiry reached a conclusion about what happened. That involved much searching scrutiny of alternative theories.
Even then, the court’s conclusion was qualified as being only “within the balance of probabilities”.
Arguments and conclusions that can resist detailed cross-examination by a skilled lawyer are much more likely to stand the test of time than conclusions approved by peer review.
That is why I support Lord Lawson’s call for an independent inquiry into global warming predictions. So much depends on those predictions; it is not enough to leave them to the scientific community.
David Newland
Emeritus Professor of Engineering Cambridge University
Ickleton, Essex

Note that the title in the link is highlighting the first letter which is about an matter unrelated to CAGW.  The letter of interest is just over half way down the page.
Here is the link:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/letters/7104596/A-hole-in-the-evidence-that-puts-the-value-of-the-Chilcot-Inquiry-in-doubt.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is another letter, in the Daily Telegraph this time, published: 12:02AM GMT 30 Jan 2010, supporting Lord Lawson’s call for an independent inquiry into globalwarming predictions: </p>
<p>Testing climate prediction</p>
<p>SIR – Your criticism of the predictions by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (Leading article, January 26) raises questions over the reliability of published scientific research.<br />
In reaching its conclusions, the IPCC has to rely on published papers. The hallmark of a good paper is that it has been peer-reviewed and published in a journal with a high academic reputation.<br />
But that does not mean that the results it contains meet the standard of proof required in a legal inquiry. After exhaustive investigations of the Flixborough chemical plant explosion, for example, the Court of Inquiry reached a conclusion about what happened. That involved much searching scrutiny of alternative theories.<br />
Even then, the court’s conclusion was qualified as being only “within the balance of probabilities”.<br />
Arguments and conclusions that can resist detailed cross-examination by a skilled lawyer are much more likely to stand the test of time than conclusions approved by peer review.<br />
That is why I support Lord Lawson’s call for an independent inquiry into global warming predictions. So much depends on those predictions; it is not enough to leave them to the scientific community.<br />
David Newland<br />
Emeritus Professor of Engineering Cambridge University<br />
Ickleton, Essex</p>
<p>Note that the title in the link is highlighting the first letter which is about an matter unrelated to CAGW.  The letter of interest is just over half way down the page.<br />
Here is the link:<br />
<a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/letters/7104596/A-hole-in-the-evidence-that-puts-the-value-of-the-Chilcot-Inquiry-in-doubt.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/letters/7104596/A-hole-in-the-evidence-that-puts-the-value-of-the-Chilcot-Inquiry-in-doubt.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: EJ</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/01/27/jonathan-leake-of-the-sunday-times-and-the-jones-et-al-amendment/#comment-218478</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[EJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 02:56:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=9947#comment-218478</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Has anyone mad an FOI about the recent fiasco?

Well within the SOL.

EJ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has anyone mad an FOI about the recent fiasco?</p>
<p>Well within the SOL.</p>
<p>EJ</p>
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		<title>By: Top Posts &#8212; WordPress.com</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/01/27/jonathan-leake-of-the-sunday-times-and-the-jones-et-al-amendment/#comment-218472</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Top Posts &#8212; WordPress.com]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 00:08:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=9947#comment-218472</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...]  Jonathan Leake of the Sunday Times and the Jones et al Amendment Inquiries from Jonathan Leake of the Sunday Times resulted in the following statement on Jan 22, 2010 by Graham Smith, [...] [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  Jonathan Leake of the Sunday Times and the Jones et al Amendment Inquiries from Jonathan Leake of the Sunday Times resulted in the following statement on Jan 22, 2010 by Graham Smith, [...] [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Drake</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/01/27/jonathan-leake-of-the-sunday-times-and-the-jones-et-al-amendment/#comment-218452</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Drake]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 19:28:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=9947#comment-218452</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I commented &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-218421&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;earlier&lt;/a&gt; about the author and his main source.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I commented <a href="#comment-218421" rel="nofollow">earlier</a> about the author and his main source.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimchip</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/01/27/jonathan-leake-of-the-sunday-times-and-the-jones-et-al-amendment/#comment-218450</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jimchip]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 19:11:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=9947#comment-218450</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-218350&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jeff Alberts (Jan 28 22:28)&lt;/a&gt;, 

Yes. My take has been that &#039;they&#039; wanted &#039;plausible deniability&#039;. Playing innocent, deleting emails is sop, stalling for time. It&#039;s hard for me to think they didn&#039;t know about server stores but it wasn&#039;t an important consideration.

Perhaps they were thinking more about questions wrt what&#039;s on their workstations and having fuzzy memories. Dr. Jones wasn&#039;t great about keeping data around, anyway.

It could have been a tactic. Delete emails locally and it will be such a hassle for &#039;central stores&#039; to retrieve them that other administrators will feel more comfortable denying the request.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-218350" rel="nofollow">Jeff Alberts (Jan 28 22:28)</a>, </p>
<p>Yes. My take has been that &#8216;they&#8217; wanted &#8216;plausible deniability&#8217;. Playing innocent, deleting emails is sop, stalling for time. It&#8217;s hard for me to think they didn&#8217;t know about server stores but it wasn&#8217;t an important consideration.</p>
<p>Perhaps they were thinking more about questions wrt what&#8217;s on their workstations and having fuzzy memories. Dr. Jones wasn&#8217;t great about keeping data around, anyway.</p>
<p>It could have been a tactic. Delete emails locally and it will be such a hassle for &#8216;central stores&#8217; to retrieve them that other administrators will feel more comfortable denying the request.</p>
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