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	<title>Comments on: More Tricks from Boulton and the Hapless Muir Russell</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2010/02/15/more-tricks-from-boulton-and-the-hapless-muir-russell/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/02/15/more-tricks-from-boulton-and-the-hapless-muir-russell/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
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		<title>By: Wil</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/02/15/more-tricks-from-boulton-and-the-hapless-muir-russell/#comment-234423</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wil]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 15:44:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=10356#comment-234423</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m astonished to read some of the feedback. I&#039;m deeply trouble by a so called inquiry who calls itself &quot;independent&quot; and claims to be an &quot;independent&quot; inquiry is anything but the truth. Independent means you have NO connection to the individuals being investigated nor past affiliation with said group/individuals/organization in which you are charged with investigating. Nor do you have a previously stated position, in this case directly related to belief in Global Warming as Bolton does - how on earth can this guy claim he is independent? Not in a sane world where independent actually means independent. This is a whitewash - all criminals would love their work buddies to investigate them every day of the week. Believe me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m astonished to read some of the feedback. I&#8217;m deeply trouble by a so called inquiry who calls itself &#8220;independent&#8221; and claims to be an &#8220;independent&#8221; inquiry is anything but the truth. Independent means you have NO connection to the individuals being investigated nor past affiliation with said group/individuals/organization in which you are charged with investigating. Nor do you have a previously stated position, in this case directly related to belief in Global Warming as Bolton does &#8211; how on earth can this guy claim he is independent? Not in a sane world where independent actually means independent. This is a whitewash &#8211; all criminals would love their work buddies to investigate them every day of the week. Believe me.</p>
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		<title>By: Plus d&#39;astuces de Boulton et de Russell Muir malheureux</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/02/15/more-tricks-from-boulton-and-the-hapless-muir-russell/#comment-222380</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Plus d&#39;astuces de Boulton et de Russell Muir malheureux]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 18:29:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=10356#comment-222380</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Le Boulton délicat et malheureux Muir Russell ont publié une déclaration ici défendre la participation de Boulton à l&#039;enquête. Il commence ainsi: Vendredi Février 12, les allégations ont été soulevées et la formation du professeur Geoffrey Bolton et les vues affecté sa capacité à être un membre de la Revue. Celles-ci ont été rejetées par Sir Muir Russell et par [. . . ] URL article original: http://climateaudit.org/2010/02/15/more-tricks-from-boulton-and-the-hapless-muir-russell/ [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Le Boulton délicat et malheureux Muir Russell ont publié une déclaration ici défendre la participation de Boulton à l&#39;enquête. Il commence ainsi: Vendredi Février 12, les allégations ont été soulevées et la formation du professeur Geoffrey Bolton et les vues affecté sa capacité à être un membre de la Revue. Celles-ci ont été rejetées par Sir Muir Russell et par [. . . ] URL article original: <a href="http://climateaudit.org/2010/02/15/more-tricks-from-boulton-and-the-hapless-muir-russell/" rel="nofollow">http://climateaudit.org/2010/02/15/more-tricks-from-boulton-and-the-hapless-muir-russell/</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: willard</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/02/15/more-tricks-from-boulton-and-the-hapless-muir-russell/#comment-222229</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[willard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 03:47:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=10356#comment-222229</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Have Muir Russell stated the qualifications and experience he needs?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have Muir Russell stated the qualifications and experience he needs?</p>
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		<title>By: David A</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/02/15/more-tricks-from-boulton-and-the-hapless-muir-russell/#comment-222086</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David A]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:45:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=10356#comment-222086</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I fibbed, one more comment, and would not a truly objective investigation get to the bottom of a great many dat archiving questions, and have the right to demand further communications of the players involved?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I fibbed, one more comment, and would not a truly objective investigation get to the bottom of a great many dat archiving questions, and have the right to demand further communications of the players involved?</p>
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		<title>By: David A</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/02/15/more-tricks-from-boulton-and-the-hapless-muir-russell/#comment-222084</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David A]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:33:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=10356#comment-222084</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My last comment on this...I think it depends on what one means by a &quot;dog in the race&quot;.  I am certain there are honest scientist supporting CAGW.
However if one is a strong supporter of disaster, then  is reasonable to think that the normal problems of confirmation bias may be amplified.  So their dog may be different then direct affiliation.

This is why that as far as the science is confirmed I think a true group of diverse skeptics (those that neither strongly support or deny CAGW) would get the best results of inquiry into a field of research with known issues in numerous areas.

As an example I would suggest a review of the contributions of a group of skeptics, some of whom characterize themselves as &quot;luke warmist&quot; Steve, Bender, Jean S, Roman, and others such including Weegman, all would, IMV, provide a far more balanced and scientific review.  (of course I know the &quot;team&quot; does not have the same POV as I do, so a selection of similarly qualified people from unrelated other disciplines, who can reliably state that the are agnostic in regard to CAGW because they have not had the time or inclination to study it specifically, may be best),]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My last comment on this&#8230;I think it depends on what one means by a &#8220;dog in the race&#8221;.  I am certain there are honest scientist supporting CAGW.<br />
However if one is a strong supporter of disaster, then  is reasonable to think that the normal problems of confirmation bias may be amplified.  So their dog may be different then direct affiliation.</p>
<p>This is why that as far as the science is confirmed I think a true group of diverse skeptics (those that neither strongly support or deny CAGW) would get the best results of inquiry into a field of research with known issues in numerous areas.</p>
<p>As an example I would suggest a review of the contributions of a group of skeptics, some of whom characterize themselves as &#8220;luke warmist&#8221; Steve, Bender, Jean S, Roman, and others such including Weegman, all would, IMV, provide a far more balanced and scientific review.  (of course I know the &#8220;team&#8221; does not have the same POV as I do, so a selection of similarly qualified people from unrelated other disciplines, who can reliably state that the are agnostic in regard to CAGW because they have not had the time or inclination to study it specifically, may be best),</p>
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		<title>By: David A</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/02/15/more-tricks-from-boulton-and-the-hapless-muir-russell/#comment-222080</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David A]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:00:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=10356#comment-222080</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Steve, that is your message, and I agree with it, however Muir Russell stated, 

&quot;This Review must determine if there is evidence of poor scientific practice, as well as investigate allegations around the manipulation and suppression of data.&quot;

In order to investigate the quality of the scientific practice they need some people with scientific, or at least solid computer science, mathamatical and statistical ability etc, and so the other side of the coin in regard to their statement,“As others have pointed out, it would be impossible to find somebody with the qualifications and experience we need who has not formed an opinion on climate change, ”could be (and apparently is) rephrased in paractice as &quot;only CAGW advocates permitted.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, that is your message, and I agree with it, however Muir Russell stated, </p>
<p>&#8220;This Review must determine if there is evidence of poor scientific practice, as well as investigate allegations around the manipulation and suppression of data.&#8221;</p>
<p>In order to investigate the quality of the scientific practice they need some people with scientific, or at least solid computer science, mathamatical and statistical ability etc, and so the other side of the coin in regard to their statement,“As others have pointed out, it would be impossible to find somebody with the qualifications and experience we need who has not formed an opinion on climate change, ”could be (and apparently is) rephrased in paractice as &#8220;only CAGW advocates permitted.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: johnh</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/02/15/more-tricks-from-boulton-and-the-hapless-muir-russell/#comment-222079</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[johnh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 09:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=10356#comment-222079</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Up until 5 months ago I worked for a major Scottish manufacturing company, left after 20 years. Annual consumption of steel 12K tonnes. For first 8 years all this came from Ravenscraig, even if it was finished in the Midlands as it had the lowest level of inclusions and so was the best quality steel in British Steel for our product. Now it all comes from Russia via Belgium. The carbon usage was exported along with the jobs but the true Carbon usage stays the same and possibly increases due to higher transport content.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Up until 5 months ago I worked for a major Scottish manufacturing company, left after 20 years. Annual consumption of steel 12K tonnes. For first 8 years all this came from Ravenscraig, even if it was finished in the Midlands as it had the lowest level of inclusions and so was the best quality steel in British Steel for our product. Now it all comes from Russia via Belgium. The carbon usage was exported along with the jobs but the true Carbon usage stays the same and possibly increases due to higher transport content.</p>
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		<title>By: JAMeech</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/02/15/more-tricks-from-boulton-and-the-hapless-muir-russell/#comment-222078</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JAMeech]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 09:36:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=10356#comment-222078</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The claim in this report is that Scotland has reduced its GHGs by 15% from the 1990 level through the elimination of steel-making and deep-mining. In the case of steel-making, I doubt very much that the consumption of steel has declined in Scotland and I doubt very much that the previous buyers of Scottish steel have reduced their consumption of steel. So this is a phony calculation - the Scots have simply transferred the production of GHGs from steel production so another part of the world. There is thus no true reduction of 15% in GHGs.

The same can be said about deep-mining. Were the GHGs associated with the deep mines which still exist or were they associated with the values extracted from those mines. In the former case, GHGs would still be being emitted while in the latter case, the GHGs have simply been transferred to another part of the world.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The claim in this report is that Scotland has reduced its GHGs by 15% from the 1990 level through the elimination of steel-making and deep-mining. In the case of steel-making, I doubt very much that the consumption of steel has declined in Scotland and I doubt very much that the previous buyers of Scottish steel have reduced their consumption of steel. So this is a phony calculation &#8211; the Scots have simply transferred the production of GHGs from steel production so another part of the world. There is thus no true reduction of 15% in GHGs.</p>
<p>The same can be said about deep-mining. Were the GHGs associated with the deep mines which still exist or were they associated with the values extracted from those mines. In the former case, GHGs would still be being emitted while in the latter case, the GHGs have simply been transferred to another part of the world.</p>
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		<title>By: jorgekafkazar</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/02/15/more-tricks-from-boulton-and-the-hapless-muir-russell/#comment-222070</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jorgekafkazar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 07:44:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=10356#comment-222070</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The term &#039;catspaw&#039; comes to mind.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The term &#8216;catspaw&#8217; comes to mind.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimchip</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/02/15/more-tricks-from-boulton-and-the-hapless-muir-russell/#comment-221965</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jimchip]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 22:23:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=10356#comment-221965</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I mentioned before wrt Campbell that it could be possible to have a trusted insider on an inquiry. Campbell wasn&#039;t it and neither is Boulton. One can be independent but still have formed an opinion on the issues. The question is whether the independent inquirer can keep on open mind and render an opinion based on the evidence presented. COI exists when the inquirer not only has a prior opinion but has a definite interest in a particular outcome- An obvious lack of independence. Prof. Boulton will be wasting everyone&#039;s time if he continues. The inquiry will merely add to the political debate without resolving the issues mandated by the remit.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I mentioned before wrt Campbell that it could be possible to have a trusted insider on an inquiry. Campbell wasn&#8217;t it and neither is Boulton. One can be independent but still have formed an opinion on the issues. The question is whether the independent inquirer can keep on open mind and render an opinion based on the evidence presented. COI exists when the inquirer not only has a prior opinion but has a definite interest in a particular outcome- An obvious lack of independence. Prof. Boulton will be wasting everyone&#8217;s time if he continues. The inquiry will merely add to the political debate without resolving the issues mandated by the remit.</p>
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