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	<title>Comments on: Oxburgh on Proxy Reconstructions</title>
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	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/04/14/oxburgh-on-proxy-reconstructions/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
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		<title>By: Another &#8220;investigation&#8221; concludes with a whitewashing &#171; CO2 Realist</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/04/14/oxburgh-on-proxy-reconstructions/#comment-228181</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Another &#8220;investigation&#8221; concludes with a whitewashing &#171; CO2 Realist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Apr 2010 16:49:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=10726#comment-228181</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Oxburgh on Proxy Reconstructions [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Oxburgh on Proxy Reconstructions [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/04/14/oxburgh-on-proxy-reconstructions/#comment-228175</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Apr 2010 15:02:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=10726#comment-228175</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Enough pontificating about theoretical defamation situations. Apparently David Hand of the Oxburgh inquiry raised my work and even Oxburgh stated to the BBC that &quot;some skeptic comment was justified&quot;. The report agreed with some important Climate Audit positions and, as far as I can tell, didn&#039;t reject or contradict anything that I&#039;ve written here.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Enough pontificating about theoretical defamation situations. Apparently David Hand of the Oxburgh inquiry raised my work and even Oxburgh stated to the BBC that &#8220;some skeptic comment was justified&#8221;. The report agreed with some important Climate Audit positions and, as far as I can tell, didn&#8217;t reject or contradict anything that I&#8217;ve written here.</p>
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		<title>By: willard</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/04/14/oxburgh-on-proxy-reconstructions/#comment-228172</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[willard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Apr 2010 14:11:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=10726#comment-228172</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Were there &lt;q&gt;actual attacks&lt;/q&gt; of someone in particular?

Let&#039;s not speculate on what kind of legal or private consequences that these attacks might entail.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Were there <q>actual attacks</q> of someone in particular?</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s not speculate on what kind of legal or private consequences that these attacks might entail.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Dardinger</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/04/14/oxburgh-on-proxy-reconstructions/#comment-228170</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Dardinger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Apr 2010 13:52:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=10726#comment-228170</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-228165&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;thefordprefect (Apr 18 07:17)&lt;/a&gt;, 

&lt;blockquote&gt;However, when someone has been invalidly attacked (according to 2 inquiries)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

There has been no invalid attack by Steve.  There was no investigation of the actual attacks in either case.  If there&#039;s any invalid attack it&#039;s by you on Steve.  But unlike you, I&#039;m not about to speculate on what legal or private consequences that might entail.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-228165" rel="nofollow">thefordprefect (Apr 18 07:17)</a>, </p>
<blockquote><p>However, when someone has been invalidly attacked (according to 2 inquiries)</p></blockquote>
<p>There has been no invalid attack by Steve.  There was no investigation of the actual attacks in either case.  If there&#8217;s any invalid attack it&#8217;s by you on Steve.  But unlike you, I&#8217;m not about to speculate on what legal or private consequences that might entail.</p>
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		<title>By: thefordprefect</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/04/14/oxburgh-on-proxy-reconstructions/#comment-228165</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[thefordprefect]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Apr 2010 12:17:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=10726#comment-228165</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[bobdenton
Posted Apr 18, 2010 

I have posted some references above proving the burden of proof is with the alleged defamer (still in moderation - 1 link too many).

Most people would NOT take a blog/owner/poster to court - blogs are little more than a chat down the pub. 

However, when someone has been invalidly attacked (according to 2 inquiries) and consequently has had his reputation called into question (important for a scientist) and has been hounded until he contemplated suicide (important for a human being) any action he decides to take to restore his life can be surely understood?

By the way using a pseudonym on a blog does not hide your true identity - it can be prised out of the blog, the service provider etc. - Look up &quot;norwich pharmacal&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bobdenton<br />
Posted Apr 18, 2010 </p>
<p>I have posted some references above proving the burden of proof is with the alleged defamer (still in moderation &#8211; 1 link too many).</p>
<p>Most people would NOT take a blog/owner/poster to court &#8211; blogs are little more than a chat down the pub. </p>
<p>However, when someone has been invalidly attacked (according to 2 inquiries) and consequently has had his reputation called into question (important for a scientist) and has been hounded until he contemplated suicide (important for a human being) any action he decides to take to restore his life can be surely understood?</p>
<p>By the way using a pseudonym on a blog does not hide your true identity &#8211; it can be prised out of the blog, the service provider etc. &#8211; Look up &#8220;norwich pharmacal&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: willard</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/04/14/oxburgh-on-proxy-reconstructions/#comment-228161</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[willard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Apr 2010 11:17:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=10726#comment-228161</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A useful quote from Wordpress&#039; terms of service:

&lt;blockquote&gt;If you operate a blog, comment on a blog, post material to the Website, post links on the Website, or otherwise make (or allow any third party to make) material available by means of the Website (any such material, “Content”), You are entirely responsible for the content of, and any harm resulting from, that Content.&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A useful quote from WordPress&#8217; terms of service:</p>
<blockquote><p>If you operate a blog, comment on a blog, post material to the Website, post links on the Website, or otherwise make (or allow any third party to make) material available by means of the Website (any such material, “Content”), You are entirely responsible for the content of, and any harm resulting from, that Content.</p></blockquote>
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	<item>
		<title>By: willard</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/04/14/oxburgh-on-proxy-reconstructions/#comment-228160</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[willard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Apr 2010 11:14:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=10726#comment-228160</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It appears that Climate Audit is hosted by WordPress: 

http://climateaudit.org/2009/12/08/climateaudit-wordpress-com/ 

One can easily find Wordpress&#039; Terms of Service.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It appears that Climate Audit is hosted by WordPress: </p>
<p><a href="http://climateaudit.org/2009/12/08/climateaudit-wordpress-com/" rel="nofollow">http://climateaudit.org/2009/12/08/climateaudit-wordpress-com/</a> </p>
<p>One can easily find WordPress&#8217; Terms of Service.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: bobdenton</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/04/14/oxburgh-on-proxy-reconstructions/#comment-228158</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bobdenton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Apr 2010 09:22:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=10726#comment-228158</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree that that it may appear that someone has developed a strategy to intimidate opposing opinion based on their understanding or misunderstanding of the libel laws.

However, If a store owner and payphone owner knowingly facilitate a crime by permitting the use of their phone they would be as guilty of the offence as the principal eg; off course gambling like you see in the 20s movies.

If they don&#039;t know the use the phone is put to, but refuse permission for it&#039;s use when they find out, they&#039;re guilty of nothing.

This analogy does not apply where the telephone is used to express honestly held opinions, except in totalitarian states.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that that it may appear that someone has developed a strategy to intimidate opposing opinion based on their understanding or misunderstanding of the libel laws.</p>
<p>However, If a store owner and payphone owner knowingly facilitate a crime by permitting the use of their phone they would be as guilty of the offence as the principal eg; off course gambling like you see in the 20s movies.</p>
<p>If they don&#8217;t know the use the phone is put to, but refuse permission for it&#8217;s use when they find out, they&#8217;re guilty of nothing.</p>
<p>This analogy does not apply where the telephone is used to express honestly held opinions, except in totalitarian states.</p>
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		<title>By: bobdenton</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/04/14/oxburgh-on-proxy-reconstructions/#comment-228157</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bobdenton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Apr 2010 09:05:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=10726#comment-228157</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Your acknowledgement that McIntyre’s conduct is entirely correct is  welcome. You could have made your position less ambiguous in the first place.
 
Incidentally, the statement in your wiki reference is correct in substance but incorrectly stated. The burden of proof in all civil actions, including defamation actions, is the same: the party making a positive averment must prove it. There is no reversal of the burden of proof in defamation. If you say x is a murderer you must prove it just as if the Crown alleges X is a murderer the Crown must prove it.

You will have noted that in Godfrey v Demon, back in the last century, notice and takedown was implicitly acknowledged by both parties.

BCA v Singh (Court of Appeal) changes the name of the defence from “fair comment” to “honest opinion”  to better express it’s nature, and adopts the US Federal Law rule that “Scientific controversies must be settled by the methods of science rather than by the methods of litigation ……. More papers, more discussion, better data …” etc  An allegation of knowingly promoting “Bogus” science was held not to be actionable as it was an honest opinion based on peer reviewed science even though the Plaintiff could point to studies in their favour as an answer to the allegation that the promotion was done “knowing it was bogus”. They knew of adverse science, but simply preferred that in favour of their beliefs and obviously did not disclose the adverse science to the public who put it’s trust in them. 

Think about it.

The Plaintiffs have thrown the towel in but the Supreme Court has a case covering similar issues listed, so the law should not be regarded as settled.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your acknowledgement that McIntyre’s conduct is entirely correct is  welcome. You could have made your position less ambiguous in the first place.</p>
<p>Incidentally, the statement in your wiki reference is correct in substance but incorrectly stated. The burden of proof in all civil actions, including defamation actions, is the same: the party making a positive averment must prove it. There is no reversal of the burden of proof in defamation. If you say x is a murderer you must prove it just as if the Crown alleges X is a murderer the Crown must prove it.</p>
<p>You will have noted that in Godfrey v Demon, back in the last century, notice and takedown was implicitly acknowledged by both parties.</p>
<p>BCA v Singh (Court of Appeal) changes the name of the defence from “fair comment” to “honest opinion”  to better express it’s nature, and adopts the US Federal Law rule that “Scientific controversies must be settled by the methods of science rather than by the methods of litigation ……. More papers, more discussion, better data …” etc  An allegation of knowingly promoting “Bogus” science was held not to be actionable as it was an honest opinion based on peer reviewed science even though the Plaintiff could point to studies in their favour as an answer to the allegation that the promotion was done “knowing it was bogus”. They knew of adverse science, but simply preferred that in favour of their beliefs and obviously did not disclose the adverse science to the public who put it’s trust in them. </p>
<p>Think about it.</p>
<p>The Plaintiffs have thrown the towel in but the Supreme Court has a case covering similar issues listed, so the law should not be regarded as settled.</p>
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		<title>By: Poptech</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/04/14/oxburgh-on-proxy-reconstructions/#comment-228150</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Poptech]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Apr 2010 06:29:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=10726#comment-228150</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Based on your logic if someone walks into a store and uses a payphone to threaten someone, the store owner and payphone owner are responsible for what is said.

Steve only has responsibility for what he says and these silly politically correct witch hunts are all critics have. How pathetic is it that you have to try to go after someone based on comments someone else said. It just shows they have nothing on what he actually says and desperately want anything they can get to try and discredit him.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Based on your logic if someone walks into a store and uses a payphone to threaten someone, the store owner and payphone owner are responsible for what is said.</p>
<p>Steve only has responsibility for what he says and these silly politically correct witch hunts are all critics have. How pathetic is it that you have to try to go after someone based on comments someone else said. It just shows they have nothing on what he actually says and desperately want anything they can get to try and discredit him.</p>
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