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	<title>Comments on: The &#8220;Hartwell Paper&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2010/05/11/the-hartwell-paper/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/05/11/the-hartwell-paper/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 03:03:19 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Climate change and the soothing message of luke-warmism, by Clive Hamilton &#124; Eco-Business.com</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/05/11/the-hartwell-paper/#comment-344444</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Climate change and the soothing message of luke-warmism, by Clive Hamilton &#124; Eco-Business.com]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2012 08:53:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=10954#comment-344444</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] of intellectuals such as those gathered at Hartwell House. No wonder the Hartwell paper has been greeted warmly on climate denier [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of intellectuals such as those gathered at Hartwell House. No wonder the Hartwell paper has been greeted warmly on climate denier [...]</p>
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		<title>By: "You are part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor"</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/05/11/the-hartwell-paper/#comment-230672</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA["You are part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor"]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 May 2010 20:35:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=10954#comment-230672</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] kräver Hulme en radikal omstöpning av klimatpolitiken till förmån för ett betydligt mer pragmatiskt synsätt.  Alltid en [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] kräver Hulme en radikal omstöpning av klimatpolitiken till förmån för ett betydligt mer pragmatiskt synsätt.  Alltid en [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Norm Rhett</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/05/11/the-hartwell-paper/#comment-230421</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Norm Rhett]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2010 18:37:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=10954#comment-230421</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[snip - sorry. blog policies prohibit attempts to solve the big picture in a couple of paragraphs. Otherwise every thread becomes the same in about 20 comments. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>snip &#8211; sorry. blog policies prohibit attempts to solve the big picture in a couple of paragraphs. Otherwise every thread becomes the same in about 20 comments. </p>
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		<title>By: MrPete</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/05/11/the-hartwell-paper/#comment-230405</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MrPete]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2010 03:57:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=10954#comment-230405</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-230375&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Norm Rhett (May 23 20:27)&lt;/a&gt;, 
Norm, you still are confused. These things have been covered extensively here and elsewhere. It is not as simple as a pronouncement from a place like GISS. Do you even understand their own press release? GISS extrapolates from a small number of measurements to imply temperature for the entire arctic, while their &quot;competitors&quot; use more stations and less extrapolation... yet still base their model on data with huge gaps. From this they claim to understand whether the globe is seeing record warmth. Plenty of analysis shows their understanding is faulty.

* The models are heavily based on extrapolations
* The models vary more than the underlying data
* Bottom line: there&#039;s huge uncertainty in data, in models and in parameters. About as bad as it can get.
* And that, the uncertainty, is something even IPCC scientists agreed on, before the political activists revised their report. (e.g. see page 11 &lt;a href=&quot;http://ross.mckitrick.googlepages.com/McKitrick.final.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.)

This whole thread is a bit silly... trying to encapsulate the entire discussion of AGW (un)certainty in a single discussion. It&#039;s not so obvious.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-230375" rel="nofollow">Norm Rhett (May 23 20:27)</a>,<br />
Norm, you still are confused. These things have been covered extensively here and elsewhere. It is not as simple as a pronouncement from a place like GISS. Do you even understand their own press release? GISS extrapolates from a small number of measurements to imply temperature for the entire arctic, while their &#8220;competitors&#8221; use more stations and less extrapolation&#8230; yet still base their model on data with huge gaps. From this they claim to understand whether the globe is seeing record warmth. Plenty of analysis shows their understanding is faulty.</p>
<p>* The models are heavily based on extrapolations<br />
* The models vary more than the underlying data<br />
* Bottom line: there&#8217;s huge uncertainty in data, in models and in parameters. About as bad as it can get.<br />
* And that, the uncertainty, is something even IPCC scientists agreed on, before the political activists revised their report. (e.g. see page 11 <a href="http://ross.mckitrick.googlepages.com/McKitrick.final.pdf" rel="nofollow">here</a>.)</p>
<p>This whole thread is a bit silly&#8230; trying to encapsulate the entire discussion of AGW (un)certainty in a single discussion. It&#8217;s not so obvious.</p>
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		<title>By: Norm Rhett</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/05/11/the-hartwell-paper/#comment-230375</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Norm Rhett]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 May 2010 01:27:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=10954#comment-230375</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[John, sorry, I was confused. 
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/news/20100121/ reports 2009 was the second warmest year.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/05/100517233818.htm reports that Jan-April 2010 was the warmest for that period. 
The point is that the slight cooling in a few previous years is not evidence of a trend.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, sorry, I was confused.<br />
<a href="http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/news/20100121/" rel="nofollow">http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/news/20100121/</a> reports 2009 was the second warmest year.<br />
<a href="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/05/100517233818.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/05/100517233818.htm</a> reports that Jan-April 2010 was the warmest for that period.<br />
The point is that the slight cooling in a few previous years is not evidence of a trend.</p>
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		<title>By: John M</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/05/11/the-hartwell-paper/#comment-230367</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John M]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 May 2010 20:24:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=10954#comment-230367</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[2009 officially the warmest on record?

Whose record?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>2009 officially the warmest on record?</p>
<p>Whose record?</p>
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		<title>By: MrPete</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/05/11/the-hartwell-paper/#comment-230366</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MrPete]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 May 2010 19:07:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=10954#comment-230366</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-230250&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Norm Rhett (May 21 14:18)&lt;/a&gt;, 
&lt;blockquote&gt;Global temperatures are higher and rising (2009 is officially the warmest on record.)&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&quot;On record&quot; covers a bit more than a century of very poor measurements, or ~30 years of satellite measures. Global temperatures were not measured before then. So no, we can&#039;t reliably compare today&#039;s temperatures to those in the past. 

And that&#039;s the problem: when we say &quot;warmest on record&quot; it really doesn&#039;t mean much.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-230250" rel="nofollow">Norm Rhett (May 21 14:18)</a>, </p>
<blockquote><p>Global temperatures are higher and rising (2009 is officially the warmest on record.)</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8220;On record&#8221; covers a bit more than a century of very poor measurements, or ~30 years of satellite measures. Global temperatures were not measured before then. So no, we can&#8217;t reliably compare today&#8217;s temperatures to those in the past. </p>
<p>And that&#8217;s the problem: when we say &#8220;warmest on record&#8221; it really doesn&#8217;t mean much.</p>
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		<title>By: The Hartwell Paper and Capituation &#171; The Policy Lass</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/05/11/the-hartwell-paper/#comment-230340</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Hartwell Paper and Capituation &#171; The Policy Lass]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 May 2010 23:01:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=10954#comment-230340</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] came across the reference to the Hartwell Paper over at CA. It seems that McI has done a couple of things that surprised his readership lately. One was to [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] came across the reference to the Hartwell Paper over at CA. It seems that McI has done a couple of things that surprised his readership lately. One was to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Harold</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/05/11/the-hartwell-paper/#comment-230305</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Harold]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 May 2010 10:49:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=10954#comment-230305</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;I love physicists, I really do, but they are neither climatologists or biologists. I’m not going to ask a proctologist to diagnose my neurological problems.&quot;


There are at least some similarities between investigating climate and investigating something like breast cancer.  The possibility of missing very important factors as well as misinterpreting the results is very high.  I watched an interesting critique by an epidemiological expert explaining why a very well respected cancer researcher came to incorrect conclusions - it all boiled down to getting the statistical analysis and (especially) interpretation wrong, but in a way that wasn&#039;t obvious at all - the research was published in a refereed journal.

From what I&#039;ve seen, statistical experts aren&#039;t used routinely in any of the Climatology research areas, so the conclusions, to me, may raise some interesting questions, but don&#039;t provide any reliable answers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I love physicists, I really do, but they are neither climatologists or biologists. I’m not going to ask a proctologist to diagnose my neurological problems.&#8221;</p>
<p>There are at least some similarities between investigating climate and investigating something like breast cancer.  The possibility of missing very important factors as well as misinterpreting the results is very high.  I watched an interesting critique by an epidemiological expert explaining why a very well respected cancer researcher came to incorrect conclusions &#8211; it all boiled down to getting the statistical analysis and (especially) interpretation wrong, but in a way that wasn&#8217;t obvious at all &#8211; the research was published in a refereed journal.</p>
<p>From what I&#8217;ve seen, statistical experts aren&#8217;t used routinely in any of the Climatology research areas, so the conclusions, to me, may raise some interesting questions, but don&#8217;t provide any reliable answers.</p>
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		<title>By: shewonk</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/05/11/the-hartwell-paper/#comment-230296</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[shewonk]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 May 2010 01:53:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=10954#comment-230296</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Amen justinert -- my response exactly! Postnormal pomo drivel. Made me ashamed for my profession.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen justinert &#8212; my response exactly! Postnormal pomo drivel. Made me ashamed for my profession.</p>
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