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	<title>Comments on: Phil Jones and the China Network: Part 3</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2010/11/06/phil-jones-and-the-china-network-part-3/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/11/06/phil-jones-and-the-china-network-part-3/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 15:32:22 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Jeff Alberts</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/11/06/phil-jones-and-the-china-network-part-3/#comment-245597</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeff Alberts]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2010 15:53:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=12317#comment-245597</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dr Phil is obviously missing the point. No one has said the stations had moved, but that we don&#039;t KNOW if any of them had. Without the station histories, data integrity cannot be established.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr Phil is obviously missing the point. No one has said the stations had moved, but that we don&#8217;t KNOW if any of them had. Without the station histories, data integrity cannot be established.</p>
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		<title>By: johnh</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/11/06/phil-jones-and-the-china-network-part-3/#comment-245593</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[johnh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2010 10:39:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=12317#comment-245593</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jones has changed his mind about revisiting the 1990 paper, its now all OK and no revision is required. One year on and its back to business as usual !!!!

&#039;Jones now says that is unnecesary. He said that he had been under pressure to concede errors earlier this year and had been on medication when he had given the interview to Nature in February. The idea that measuring stations had moved in China had been misinterpreted, he said, because his paper had talked of 84 stations from a larger group of 265. For his paper, Jones said he had chosen those measuring stations that had moved the least.&#039;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/nov/15/hacked-climate-science-emails-climate-change?intcmp=122]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jones has changed his mind about revisiting the 1990 paper, its now all OK and no revision is required. One year on and its back to business as usual !!!!</p>
<p>&#8216;Jones now says that is unnecesary. He said that he had been under pressure to concede errors earlier this year and had been on medication when he had given the interview to Nature in February. The idea that measuring stations had moved in China had been misinterpreted, he said, because his paper had talked of 84 stations from a larger group of 265. For his paper, Jones said he had chosen those measuring stations that had moved the least.&#8217;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/nov/15/hacked-climate-science-emails-climate-change?intcmp=122" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/nov/15/hacked-climate-science-emails-climate-change?intcmp=122</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Norman</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/11/06/phil-jones-and-the-china-network-part-3/#comment-245460</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeff Norman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Nov 2010 20:34:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=12317#comment-245460</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ahh, man!  He&#039;s become distracted.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahh, man!  He&#8217;s become distracted.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Bernie</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/11/06/phil-jones-and-the-china-network-part-3/#comment-245456</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bernie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Nov 2010 19:53:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=12317#comment-245456</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Steve:
Will there be a part 4 of the China Network?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve:<br />
Will there be a part 4 of the China Network?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: ΣΤΗ ΔΕΥΤΕΡΗ ΘΕΣΗ ΤΟΥ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟΥ WORDPRESS ΚΑΙ ΣΤΗΝ 85η ΤΟΥ ΠΑΓΚΟΣΜΙΟΥ, ΤΟ KOPANAKI NEWS. &#171; Kopanakinews&#8217;s Weblog</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/11/06/phil-jones-and-the-china-network-part-3/#comment-245273</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ΣΤΗ ΔΕΥΤΕΡΗ ΘΕΣΗ ΤΟΥ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟΥ WORDPRESS ΚΑΙ ΣΤΗΝ 85η ΤΟΥ ΠΑΓΚΟΣΜΙΟΥ, ΤΟ KOPANAKI NEWS. &#171; Kopanakinews&#8217;s Weblog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Nov 2010 22:21:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=12317#comment-245273</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Phil Jones and the China Network: Part 3 [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Phil Jones and the China Network: Part 3 [...]</p>
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		<title>By: HaroldW</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/11/06/phil-jones-and-the-china-network-part-3/#comment-245249</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[HaroldW]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Nov 2010 19:07:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=12317#comment-245249</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Antony. From that input, it appears that the information existed but was not properly archived or even summarized at the time. Yet another illustration of the need for strong data archiving policies for papers which are data analyses.

An interesting perspective is the following &lt;blockquote&gt;Other Relevant Notes:
On 18 February 2008, Professor Jones (Lead author of the 1990 Nature paper) sent me a manuscript, “Urbanization effects in large‐scale temperature records, with an emphasis on China” which was recently submitted to J. Geophysical Research for publication. In the paper, The most relevant finding is that comparing the 42‐rural station data used in the 1990 GRL and Nature papers with those adjusted for homogeneity of a 728‐station network yield very much the same results, implying that the station moves, if any, really did not matter when a representative set of stations (here 42‐stations) was used.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&quot;Very much the same results&quot; isn&#039;t how I would describe a 0.1 K/decade trend attribution to UHI [Jones et al. 2008] compared to 0.05 K/century [Jones et al. 1990].]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Antony. From that input, it appears that the information existed but was not properly archived or even summarized at the time. Yet another illustration of the need for strong data archiving policies for papers which are data analyses.</p>
<p>An interesting perspective is the following<br />
<blockquote>Other Relevant Notes:<br />
On 18 February 2008, Professor Jones (Lead author of the 1990 Nature paper) sent me a manuscript, “Urbanization effects in large‐scale temperature records, with an emphasis on China” which was recently submitted to J. Geophysical Research for publication. In the paper, The most relevant finding is that comparing the 42‐rural station data used in the 1990 GRL and Nature papers with those adjusted for homogeneity of a 728‐station network yield very much the same results, implying that the station moves, if any, really did not matter when a representative set of stations (here 42‐stations) was used.</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8220;Very much the same results&#8221; isn&#8217;t how I would describe a 0.1 K/decade trend attribution to UHI [Jones et al. 2008] compared to 0.05 K/century [Jones et al. 1990].</p>
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		<title>By: Peter D. Tillman</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/11/06/phil-jones-and-the-china-network-part-3/#comment-245231</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter D. Tillman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Nov 2010 17:29:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=12317#comment-245231</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-245165&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ted Carmichael (Nov 8 15:08)&lt;/a&gt;, Summary of Jones et al. UHI &quot;study&quot;.

And another thanks from me. It&#039;s hard to believe that reviewers passed this POS. Bah.

“When men are most sure and arrogant they are commonly most mistaken, giving views to passion without that proper deliberation which alone can secure them from the grossest absurdities.” 
	-- David Hume.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-245165" rel="nofollow">Ted Carmichael (Nov 8 15:08)</a>, Summary of Jones et al. UHI &#8220;study&#8221;.</p>
<p>And another thanks from me. It&#8217;s hard to believe that reviewers passed this POS. Bah.</p>
<p>“When men are most sure and arrogant they are commonly most mistaken, giving views to passion without that proper deliberation which alone can secure them from the grossest absurdities.”<br />
	&#8211; David Hume.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: EJD</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/11/06/phil-jones-and-the-china-network-part-3/#comment-245230</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[EJD]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Nov 2010 16:40:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=12317#comment-245230</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nice summation, much appreciated.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice summation, much appreciated.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mark F</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/11/06/phil-jones-and-the-china-network-part-3/#comment-245229</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark F]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Nov 2010 16:27:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=12317#comment-245229</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To paraphrase:
Trust me, the stations are valid, and it&#039;s too much trouble to dig up the data to allow anyone to verify or challenge that.  So get lost.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To paraphrase:<br />
Trust me, the stations are valid, and it&#8217;s too much trouble to dig up the data to allow anyone to verify or challenge that.  So get lost.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: AntonyIndia</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/11/06/phil-jones-and-the-china-network-part-3/#comment-245224</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AntonyIndia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Nov 2010 15:37:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=12317#comment-245224</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A relevant document from 22 February 2008 by Wei‐Chyung Wang in the climategate files is http://www.climate-gate.org/cru/documents/080222_ZMZeng_Inputs.pdf]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A relevant document from 22 February 2008 by Wei‐Chyung Wang in the climategate files is <a href="http://www.climate-gate.org/cru/documents/080222_ZMZeng_Inputs.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.climate-gate.org/cru/documents/080222_ZMZeng_Inputs.pdf</a></p>
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