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	<title>Comments on: Remember Gavin&#8217;s Taunts about Steig et al 2009?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2010/12/11/remember-gavins-taunts-about-steig-et-al-2009/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/12/11/remember-gavins-taunts-about-steig-et-al-2009/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 06:52:58 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Scott O</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/12/11/remember-gavins-taunts-about-steig-et-al-2009/#comment-251298</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Scott O]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Jan 2011 22:52:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=12593#comment-251298</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I like the comments from RC&#039;s follow up article better :)

&quot;The difference between a single calculation and a solid paper in the technical literature is vast. A good paper examines a question from multiple angles and find ways to assess the robustness of its conclusions to all sorts of possible sources of error — in input data, in assumptions, and even occasionally in programming. If a conclusion is robust over as much of this as can be tested (and the good peer reviewers generally insist that this be shown), then the paper is likely to last the test of time. Although science proceeds by making use of the work that others have done before, it is not based on the assumption that everything that went before is correct. It is precisely because that there is always the possibility of errors that so much is based on ‘balance of evidence’ arguments’ that are mutually reinforcing.
#

So it is with the Steig et al paper published last week.&quot;

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2009/02/antarctic-warming-is-robust/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the comments from RC&#8217;s follow up article better <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>&#8220;The difference between a single calculation and a solid paper in the technical literature is vast. A good paper examines a question from multiple angles and find ways to assess the robustness of its conclusions to all sorts of possible sources of error — in input data, in assumptions, and even occasionally in programming. If a conclusion is robust over as much of this as can be tested (and the good peer reviewers generally insist that this be shown), then the paper is likely to last the test of time. Although science proceeds by making use of the work that others have done before, it is not based on the assumption that everything that went before is correct. It is precisely because that there is always the possibility of errors that so much is based on ‘balance of evidence’ arguments’ that are mutually reinforcing.<br />
#</p>
<p>So it is with the Steig et al paper published last week.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2009/02/antarctic-warming-is-robust/" rel="nofollow">http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2009/02/antarctic-warming-is-robust/</a></p>
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		<title>By: curious</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/12/11/remember-gavins-taunts-about-steig-et-al-2009/#comment-250179</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[curious]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Dec 2010 11:41:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=12593#comment-250179</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For info - Current post from WUWT re: Antarctic sea ice extent:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/12/21/sea-ice-news-32-southern-comfort/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For info &#8211; Current post from WUWT re: Antarctic sea ice extent:</p>
<p><a href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/12/21/sea-ice-news-32-southern-comfort/" rel="nofollow">http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/12/21/sea-ice-news-32-southern-comfort/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Il sassolino antartico &#124; Climate Monitor</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/12/11/remember-gavins-taunts-about-steig-et-al-2009/#comment-249643</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Il sassolino antartico &#124; Climate Monitor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Dec 2010 07:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=12593#comment-249643</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Sempre secondo lui, questa debolezza avrebbe dovuto avere un po&#8217; di attenzione mediatica. Per dirla con Mc Intyre, che compare tra le firme di questo rebuttal, forse la vanagloria di Shmidt era un po&#8217; [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Sempre secondo lui, questa debolezza avrebbe dovuto avere un po&#8217; di attenzione mediatica. Per dirla con Mc Intyre, che compare tra le firme di questo rebuttal, forse la vanagloria di Shmidt era un po&#8217; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: oneuniverse</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/12/11/remember-gavins-taunts-about-steig-et-al-2009/#comment-249225</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[oneuniverse]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Dec 2010 13:58:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=12593#comment-249225</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Respectfully, I don&#039;t understand the moderation. Is this a stats-only thread?

curious: &quot;My reading of it is that the peninsula shows a consistent warming trend. To my simple mind this suggests a net positive input of heat.&quot;

bender: &quot;Natural variability in the circumpolar ocean current – which affects the peninsula strongly, but actually serves to isolate the continental pole from the peninsula, both weather-wise and climate-wise.&quot;

bender: &quot;Remember the context here is warming of the tip of the Antarctic peninsula. Is this symptomatic of a global meltdown? Or is the Antarctic ocean doing something very interesting that we haven’t observed before in detail?&quot;

These are discussions of physical aspects of the Antarctic system. The link between sub-glacial heat flux and surface temperatures may be remoter than that between atmospheric currents and surfact temps., but I don&#039;t see how volcanoes are not an issue (to the point of curtailing any discussion of it).  Concerns over glacial melting and sea level rise are what made S09 prominent in the first place. 

To provide a possible partial answer to bender&#039;s question above :
Corr and Vaughan (2008): &quot;Unlike the East Antarctic ice sheet, which lies on generally aseismic continental crust that shows little volcanic activity, the West Antarctic ice sheet (WAIS) lies over a crustal rift that has volcanism on its flanks and associated elevated geothermal heat flux.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Respectfully, I don&#8217;t understand the moderation. Is this a stats-only thread?</p>
<p>curious: &#8220;My reading of it is that the peninsula shows a consistent warming trend. To my simple mind this suggests a net positive input of heat.&#8221;</p>
<p>bender: &#8220;Natural variability in the circumpolar ocean current – which affects the peninsula strongly, but actually serves to isolate the continental pole from the peninsula, both weather-wise and climate-wise.&#8221;</p>
<p>bender: &#8220;Remember the context here is warming of the tip of the Antarctic peninsula. Is this symptomatic of a global meltdown? Or is the Antarctic ocean doing something very interesting that we haven’t observed before in detail?&#8221;</p>
<p>These are discussions of physical aspects of the Antarctic system. The link between sub-glacial heat flux and surface temperatures may be remoter than that between atmospheric currents and surfact temps., but I don&#8217;t see how volcanoes are not an issue (to the point of curtailing any discussion of it).  Concerns over glacial melting and sea level rise are what made S09 prominent in the first place. </p>
<p>To provide a possible partial answer to bender&#8217;s question above :<br />
Corr and Vaughan (2008): &#8220;Unlike the East Antarctic ice sheet, which lies on generally aseismic continental crust that shows little volcanic activity, the West Antarctic ice sheet (WAIS) lies over a crustal rift that has volcanism on its flanks and associated elevated geothermal heat flux.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Drake</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/12/11/remember-gavins-taunts-about-steig-et-al-2009/#comment-249140</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Drake]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2010 23:07:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=12593#comment-249140</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Seconded. The difference in the amount one learns as a lurker from such honest, expert interaction compared to the taunting style the thread began by drawing attention to is again worthy of note.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seconded. The difference in the amount one learns as a lurker from such honest, expert interaction compared to the taunting style the thread began by drawing attention to is again worthy of note.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Drake</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/12/11/remember-gavins-taunts-about-steig-et-al-2009/#comment-249138</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Drake]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2010 23:02:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=12593#comment-249138</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ah, a man who knows what he doesn&#039;t know. He should be watched :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, a man who knows what he doesn&#8217;t know. He should be watched <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Scott Brim</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/12/11/remember-gavins-taunts-about-steig-et-al-2009/#comment-249134</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Scott Brim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2010 22:45:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=12593#comment-249134</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A note of thanks to both Dr. Koutsoyiannis and to bender for responding to my question.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A note of thanks to both Dr. Koutsoyiannis and to bender for responding to my question.</p>
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		<title>By: Demetris Koutsoyiannis</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/12/11/remember-gavins-taunts-about-steig-et-al-2009/#comment-249131</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Demetris Koutsoyiannis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2010 22:27:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=12593#comment-249131</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Perhaps the question is whether the models we use for these processes are ergodic or not. Mine are (how could I infer statistics from time series otherwise?). About ocean thermal convection: sorry, I am not an expert.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps the question is whether the models we use for these processes are ergodic or not. Mine are (how could I infer statistics from time series otherwise?). About ocean thermal convection: sorry, I am not an expert.</p>
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		<title>By: curious</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/12/11/remember-gavins-taunts-about-steig-et-al-2009/#comment-249126</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[curious]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2010 21:36:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=12593#comment-249126</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes agreed - IMUO entirely possible and plausible especially given the historical context. However my impression is that we don&#039;t have reliable sea temp data for this area, and over this period, which can get us much further - is this correct? Or is there anything else you know of which can help demonstrate this? I&#039;d expect that the warmer waters would make a dent on sea ice extent but, from posts over at tAV, I don&#039;t remember this showing up as being the case? Apologies if this is heading too far OT but I do think the peninsula diference is one of the interesting things OLMC10 highlights.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes agreed &#8211; IMUO entirely possible and plausible especially given the historical context. However my impression is that we don&#8217;t have reliable sea temp data for this area, and over this period, which can get us much further &#8211; is this correct? Or is there anything else you know of which can help demonstrate this? I&#8217;d expect that the warmer waters would make a dent on sea ice extent but, from posts over at tAV, I don&#8217;t remember this showing up as being the case? Apologies if this is heading too far OT but I do think the peninsula diference is one of the interesting things OLMC10 highlights.</p>
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		<title>By: oneuniverse</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2010/12/11/remember-gavins-taunts-about-steig-et-al-2009/#comment-249125</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[oneuniverse]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2010 21:36:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=12593#comment-249125</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Volcanoes might have an effect too, 

snip - no volcanoes please. Not an issue. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Volcanoes might have an effect too, </p>
<p>snip &#8211; no volcanoes please. Not an issue. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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