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	<title>Comments on: A Two-Way Street</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2011/02/11/a-two-way-street/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/02/11/a-two-way-street/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
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		<title>By: Lisbon Workshop on Reconciliation. Part XI: Convinced or Unconvinced? &#124; Climate Etc.</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/02/11/a-two-way-street/#comment-358301</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lisbon Workshop on Reconciliation. Part XI: Convinced or Unconvinced? &#124; Climate Etc.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2012 17:30:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=12924#comment-358301</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] participant Steve McIntyre suggests a Two Way Street, but does not seem to be sharing the love with this comment: &#8220;the Team boycotted the Lisbon [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] participant Steve McIntyre suggests a Two Way Street, but does not seem to be sharing the love with this comment: &#8220;the Team boycotted the Lisbon [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Yeh, But If It Was &#8230;&#8230;.. Then We All Be In Trouble!! &#124; suyts space</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/02/11/a-two-way-street/#comment-340818</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Yeh, But If It Was &#8230;&#8230;.. Then We All Be In Trouble!! &#124; suyts space]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2012 17:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=12924#comment-340818</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] those were good times!&#160; Of course, with this more current map of temp trends, we can see part of the assumption may [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] those were good times!&nbsp; Of course, with this more current map of temp trends, we can see part of the assumption may [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bart Verheggen</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/02/11/a-two-way-street/#comment-255411</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bart Verheggen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Feb 2011 15:34:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=12924#comment-255411</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While I agree that in retrospect (!) it would have been better communication-wise had Steig contacted O&#039;Donnell before posting, I don&#039;t find these situations equivalent. 

Pearce wrote a mainstream media article in which he wrote &quot;Gavin said the science was settled&quot;, whereas Gavin didn&#039;t say that, or anything like it, at least in my interpretation of how that loaded term is usually meant. 

Surely you are aware of the baggage that the term &quot;settled science&quot; has. Used as a rhetorical weapon (its most prevalent use), it carries accusations of a) ignoring/downplaying uncertainty and b) being unscientific and c) stifling dissent.

Gavin thinks that the root of the conflict has much more to do with the (perceived) consequences of climate change and of mitigation strategies (my paraphrase of him calling it &quot;political&quot;). Discussing conflict resolution without discussing the root cause (as Gavin sees it) didn&#039;t make a hell lot of sense to him. You may not agree with his assessment of what the root cause of conflict is, but is position is entirely coherent and has nothing to do with the withered meaning of &quot;settled science&quot;.    

I expanded on this at my blog: 
http://ourchangingclimate.wordpress.com/2011/02/04/lisbon-reconciliation-unsettling/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree that in retrospect (!) it would have been better communication-wise had Steig contacted O&#8217;Donnell before posting, I don&#8217;t find these situations equivalent. </p>
<p>Pearce wrote a mainstream media article in which he wrote &#8220;Gavin said the science was settled&#8221;, whereas Gavin didn&#8217;t say that, or anything like it, at least in my interpretation of how that loaded term is usually meant. </p>
<p>Surely you are aware of the baggage that the term &#8220;settled science&#8221; has. Used as a rhetorical weapon (its most prevalent use), it carries accusations of a) ignoring/downplaying uncertainty and b) being unscientific and c) stifling dissent.</p>
<p>Gavin thinks that the root of the conflict has much more to do with the (perceived) consequences of climate change and of mitigation strategies (my paraphrase of him calling it &#8220;political&#8221;). Discussing conflict resolution without discussing the root cause (as Gavin sees it) didn&#8217;t make a hell lot of sense to him. You may not agree with his assessment of what the root cause of conflict is, but is position is entirely coherent and has nothing to do with the withered meaning of &#8220;settled science&#8221;.    </p>
<p>I expanded on this at my blog:<br />
<a href="http://ourchangingclimate.wordpress.com/2011/02/04/lisbon-reconciliation-unsettling/" rel="nofollow">http://ourchangingclimate.wordpress.com/2011/02/04/lisbon-reconciliation-unsettling/</a></p>
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		<title>By: J Bowers</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/02/11/a-two-way-street/#comment-255069</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J Bowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Feb 2011 11:19:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=12924#comment-255069</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If there was a consistent and demonstrably viable alternative to AGW, then you&#039;d also have a point ;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If there was a consistent and demonstrably viable alternative to AGW, then you&#8217;d also have a point <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: captdallas2</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/02/11/a-two-way-street/#comment-255016</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[captdallas2]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Feb 2011 03:14:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=12924#comment-255016</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Er... (captdumbbutt says sheepishly)

this
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/7752098/can_the_united_states_government_steal.html?cat=17]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Er&#8230; (captdumbbutt says sheepishly)</p>
<p>this<br />
<a href="http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/7752098/can_the_united_states_government_steal.html?cat=17" rel="nofollow">http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/7752098/can_the_united_states_government_steal.html?cat=17</a></p>
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		<title>By: captdallas2</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/02/11/a-two-way-street/#comment-255015</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[captdallas2]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Feb 2011 03:10:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=12924#comment-255015</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[realclimate sent this to the borehole

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2004/12/the-bore-hole/comment-page-4/#comment-200622

So they get this

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2004/12/the-bore-hole/comment-page-4/#comment-200622

Let us see how strong the pen really is.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>realclimate sent this to the borehole</p>
<p><a href="http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2004/12/the-bore-hole/comment-page-4/#comment-200622" rel="nofollow">http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2004/12/the-bore-hole/comment-page-4/#comment-200622</a></p>
<p>So they get this</p>
<p><a href="http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2004/12/the-bore-hole/comment-page-4/#comment-200622" rel="nofollow">http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2004/12/the-bore-hole/comment-page-4/#comment-200622</a></p>
<p>Let us see how strong the pen really is.</p>
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		<title>By: Derek H</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/02/11/a-two-way-street/#comment-254948</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Derek H]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Feb 2011 21:46:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=12924#comment-254948</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Their skins are impervious and have absorbed nothing, absolutely nothing, post Climategate.&quot;

I&#039;d say they absorbed something:  the need to be Clintonian in their denials, deceptions and obstructions.  The science doesn&#039;t need to be discussed or debated (except he didn&#039;t say it was &quot;settled&quot;); there is no search for truth, just reinforcement of their position; they don&#039;t need to release data or methods even under legal subpoena; when finally pinned down on their obfuscation, it&#039;s all &quot;old news&quot;, everyone should just press on.

It&#039;s sickening enough to see this behavior in politicans from whom we expect it -- positively revolting from someone who calls himself a scientist.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Their skins are impervious and have absorbed nothing, absolutely nothing, post Climategate.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;d say they absorbed something:  the need to be Clintonian in their denials, deceptions and obstructions.  The science doesn&#8217;t need to be discussed or debated (except he didn&#8217;t say it was &#8220;settled&#8221;); there is no search for truth, just reinforcement of their position; they don&#8217;t need to release data or methods even under legal subpoena; when finally pinned down on their obfuscation, it&#8217;s all &#8220;old news&#8221;, everyone should just press on.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s sickening enough to see this behavior in politicans from whom we expect it &#8212; positively revolting from someone who calls himself a scientist.</p>
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		<title>By: TerryMN</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/02/11/a-two-way-street/#comment-254936</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TerryMN]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Feb 2011 20:46:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=12924#comment-254936</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Only 4 months?!?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Only 4 months?!?</p>
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		<title>By: BillyBob</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/02/11/a-two-way-street/#comment-254923</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BillyBob]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Feb 2011 19:06:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=12924#comment-254923</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[He said: &quot;My decision not to accept the invitation to this meeting was based entirely on the organiser’s initial diagnosis of the cause of the ‘conflict’ in the climate change debate.&quot;

That&#039;s political.

A fatwa is quite accurate.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He said: &#8220;My decision not to accept the invitation to this meeting was based entirely on the organiser’s initial diagnosis of the cause of the ‘conflict’ in the climate change debate.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s political.</p>
<p>A fatwa is quite accurate.</p>
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		<title>By: glacierman</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/02/11/a-two-way-street/#comment-254919</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[glacierman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Feb 2011 17:40:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=12924#comment-254919</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-254699&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Nick Stokes (Feb 11 23:43)&lt;/a&gt;, 

You mean like when he tried to correspond with Caspar Ammann?  

&quot;why would I even bother answering your questions, isn’t that just lost time? &quot; - http://climateaudit.org/2008/08/06/well-well-look-what-the-cat-dragged-in/

Or Jones? 
&quot;We have 25 or so years invested in the work. Why should I make the data available to you, when your aim is to try and find something wrong with it. …&quot;
Cheers Phil 

http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/25/willis-eschenbachs-foi-request/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-254699" rel="nofollow">Nick Stokes (Feb 11 23:43)</a>, </p>
<p>You mean like when he tried to correspond with Caspar Ammann?  </p>
<p>&#8220;why would I even bother answering your questions, isn’t that just lost time? &#8221; &#8211; <a href="http://climateaudit.org/2008/08/06/well-well-look-what-the-cat-dragged-in/" rel="nofollow">http://climateaudit.org/2008/08/06/well-well-look-what-the-cat-dragged-in/</a></p>
<p>Or Jones?<br />
&#8220;We have 25 or so years invested in the work. Why should I make the data available to you, when your aim is to try and find something wrong with it. …&#8221;<br />
Cheers Phil </p>
<p><a href="http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/25/willis-eschenbachs-foi-request/" rel="nofollow">http://climateaudit.org/2009/11/25/willis-eschenbachs-foi-request/</a></p>
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