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	<title>Comments on: Comments on Mother Jones</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2011/04/23/comments-on-mother-jones/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/04/23/comments-on-mother-jones/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
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		<title>By: Gary Hemminger</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/04/23/comments-on-mother-jones/#comment-267006</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gary Hemminger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Apr 2011 01:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=13512#comment-267006</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think the answer to the FOI request denials is rather simple actually, but might be difficult to be done.  In the standards community, it was widely practiced by many vendors to get their standard in place, then force the other vendors to license their technology.  this was solved by forcing vendors to make their standards submissions available free of charge in perpetuity.

Government grants should come with a contractual stipulation that FOI requests must be met.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the answer to the FOI request denials is rather simple actually, but might be difficult to be done.  In the standards community, it was widely practiced by many vendors to get their standard in place, then force the other vendors to license their technology.  this was solved by forcing vendors to make their standards submissions available free of charge in perpetuity.</p>
<p>Government grants should come with a contractual stipulation that FOI requests must be met.</p>
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		<title>By: Poptech</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/04/23/comments-on-mother-jones/#comment-266284</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Poptech]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Apr 2011 15:47:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=13512#comment-266284</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why are you allowing the &quot;bait&quot; to be posted then? Either let me defend my site or remove the link above.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why are you allowing the &#8220;bait&#8221; to be posted then? Either let me defend my site or remove the link above.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/04/23/comments-on-mother-jones/#comment-265897</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Phil]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2011 23:48:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=13512#comment-265897</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would say that the &quot;need for better communication&quot; should not necessarily be taken literally or in good faith.  Rather, it seems that the word &quot;communication&quot; is being used in the sense of the warden in Cool Hand Luke (IIRC): &quot;What we have hear is a failure to communicate.&quot;  In other words, the recipients of the &quot;communication&quot; have failed in their duty to obey and comply with a directive.  In this sense, shouldn&#039;t the emphasis on the &quot;need for better communication&quot; be interpreted as a restatement of directives that the recipients have obviously not understood needed to be complied with without question or resistance?  And doesn&#039;t this apparent attitude dovetail quite nicely with the use of the term &quot;deniers?&quot;

Second, maybe the inquiries would have had more credibility if members of the public at large had been included, as one was in the investigation of the accident at Three Mile Island.  Unfortunately, she went on to publish a minority report, Item 1 of which seems relevant this many years later:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pddoc.com/tmi2/kemeny/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The President&#039;s Commission on the accident at Three Mile Island&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;ITEM 1

This item represents the feelings of the undersigned and a majority of her circle of citizens who lived through the TMI accident.

The report concluded that the errors and sensationalism reported by the news media merely reflected the confusion and ignorance of the facts by the official sources of information. It further concluded that the press did a creditable (&quot;more reassuring than alarming&quot;) job of news coverage.

In fact, these conclusions are not generally supported by the staff reports. There were reliable news sources available. &lt;strong&gt;Too much emphasis was placed on the &quot;what if&quot; rather than the &quot;what is.&quot;&lt;/strong&gt; As a result, the public was pulled into a state of terror, of psychological stress. More so than any other normal source of news, the evening national news reports by the major networks proved to be the most depressing, the most terrifying.  Confusion cannot explain away the mismanagement of a news event of this magnitude.

It is requested that the news media undertake a self-evaluation on an individual basis and review their role in this accident which was not limited to equipment damage but also included psychological damage.  ........

Anne D. Trunk

October 25, 1979 (emphasis added)&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would say that the &#8220;need for better communication&#8221; should not necessarily be taken literally or in good faith.  Rather, it seems that the word &#8220;communication&#8221; is being used in the sense of the warden in Cool Hand Luke (IIRC): &#8220;What we have hear is a failure to communicate.&#8221;  In other words, the recipients of the &#8220;communication&#8221; have failed in their duty to obey and comply with a directive.  In this sense, shouldn&#8217;t the emphasis on the &#8220;need for better communication&#8221; be interpreted as a restatement of directives that the recipients have obviously not understood needed to be complied with without question or resistance?  And doesn&#8217;t this apparent attitude dovetail quite nicely with the use of the term &#8220;deniers?&#8221;</p>
<p>Second, maybe the inquiries would have had more credibility if members of the public at large had been included, as one was in the investigation of the accident at Three Mile Island.  Unfortunately, she went on to publish a minority report, Item 1 of which seems relevant this many years later:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.pddoc.com/tmi2/kemeny/" rel="nofollow">The President&#8217;s Commission on the accident at Three Mile Island</a></p>
<blockquote><p>ITEM 1</p>
<p>This item represents the feelings of the undersigned and a majority of her circle of citizens who lived through the TMI accident.</p>
<p>The report concluded that the errors and sensationalism reported by the news media merely reflected the confusion and ignorance of the facts by the official sources of information. It further concluded that the press did a creditable (&#8220;more reassuring than alarming&#8221;) job of news coverage.</p>
<p>In fact, these conclusions are not generally supported by the staff reports. There were reliable news sources available. <strong>Too much emphasis was placed on the &#8220;what if&#8221; rather than the &#8220;what is.&#8221;</strong> As a result, the public was pulled into a state of terror, of psychological stress. More so than any other normal source of news, the evening national news reports by the major networks proved to be the most depressing, the most terrifying.  Confusion cannot explain away the mismanagement of a news event of this magnitude.</p>
<p>It is requested that the news media undertake a self-evaluation on an individual basis and review their role in this accident which was not limited to equipment damage but also included psychological damage.  &#8230;&#8230;..</p>
<p>Anne D. Trunk</p>
<p>October 25, 1979 (emphasis added)</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: thefordprefect</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/04/23/comments-on-mother-jones/#comment-265620</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[thefordprefect]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2011 12:46:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=13512#comment-265620</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Steve what did those who received the data do - did they post it all over the web? What would you do if you had received the full data? I suspect it would have appeared in your references page.

You have already stated that you have no desire to audit the CRU temp record, so why do you need it?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve what did those who received the data do &#8211; did they post it all over the web? What would you do if you had received the full data? I suspect it would have appeared in your references page.</p>
<p>You have already stated that you have no desire to audit the CRU temp record, so why do you need it?</p>
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		<title>By: Poptech</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/04/23/comments-on-mother-jones/#comment-265609</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Poptech]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2011 12:28:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=13512#comment-265609</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[snip - OT. I may have missed another OT post, but no need to rise to every bait. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>snip &#8211; OT. I may have missed another OT post, but no need to rise to every bait. </p>
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		<title>By: Michael Ozanne</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/04/23/comments-on-mother-jones/#comment-264853</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Ozanne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2011 13:16:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=13512#comment-264853</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;This is not the first time you’ve asked for samples of “hostile”- and each time it comes up and someone provides an example or 2, you tend to defend why a given turn of phrase is NOT hostile, or you have on occasion claimed that the stonewalling you’ve experienced has earned you the right to a wry comment or 2 in your writings. I agree completely that you’ve earned the right- but I’d argue that in many cases, those wry comments are precisely what could be perceived as hostile. &quot;

In a formal communication I&#039;m as good at complete factual dryness as anyone else, rare indeed are the times that a system or activity has been so ineptly conducted that my finely honed laconic wit can slip in a few jabs without compromising professional integrity. CA on the other hand is a blog, its supposed to have wit and personality, better to be thought a little hostile than completely boring. 

I personally am amazed at Mr McIntyre&#039;s restraint. As one who has had his life &quot;Enhanced&quot; by externally imposed quality systems and management practices. The idea that you could produce an analysis based on a method that you can&#039;t calibrate against your best and most recent instrument data; then claim that its &quot;standard practice&quot; to conceal the fact; justifies a whole truckload af sardonically witty whup-ass. It&#039;s the sort of cloth eared inanity that would do credit to Gonzo the Great and the mock-Swedish chef. First class intellectual Onanism, just plain dumb. To suggest, when you notice you&#039;ve queered the pitch, that all you have is a need for a better &quot;communications strategy&quot; is the bit that justifies endless and loud urine extraction until they wise up and smell the metaphorical coffee, assuming of course that the whiff of pseudo-intellectual bovine excrement that hangs around them can be sufficiently dispersed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;This is not the first time you’ve asked for samples of “hostile”- and each time it comes up and someone provides an example or 2, you tend to defend why a given turn of phrase is NOT hostile, or you have on occasion claimed that the stonewalling you’ve experienced has earned you the right to a wry comment or 2 in your writings. I agree completely that you’ve earned the right- but I’d argue that in many cases, those wry comments are precisely what could be perceived as hostile. &#8221;</p>
<p>In a formal communication I&#8217;m as good at complete factual dryness as anyone else, rare indeed are the times that a system or activity has been so ineptly conducted that my finely honed laconic wit can slip in a few jabs without compromising professional integrity. CA on the other hand is a blog, its supposed to have wit and personality, better to be thought a little hostile than completely boring. </p>
<p>I personally am amazed at Mr McIntyre&#8217;s restraint. As one who has had his life &#8220;Enhanced&#8221; by externally imposed quality systems and management practices. The idea that you could produce an analysis based on a method that you can&#8217;t calibrate against your best and most recent instrument data; then claim that its &#8220;standard practice&#8221; to conceal the fact; justifies a whole truckload af sardonically witty whup-ass. It&#8217;s the sort of cloth eared inanity that would do credit to Gonzo the Great and the mock-Swedish chef. First class intellectual Onanism, just plain dumb. To suggest, when you notice you&#8217;ve queered the pitch, that all you have is a need for a better &#8220;communications strategy&#8221; is the bit that justifies endless and loud urine extraction until they wise up and smell the metaphorical coffee, assuming of course that the whiff of pseudo-intellectual bovine excrement that hangs around them can be sufficiently dispersed.</p>
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		<title>By: Shevva</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/04/23/comments-on-mother-jones/#comment-264852</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Shevva]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2011 13:15:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=13512#comment-264852</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&#039;I think that the failure of the inquiries to observe even the remotest vestige of due process has gotten under my skin more than I’d like.&#039;

As a citizen of the UK it scares the hell out of me, how an investigation can be so obviously a white wash and not a single member of the political elite not say a word is worrying.

Then again free speech against the government in the UK is now becoming an idea of past generations enforced by a bunch of hooligans:- 

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2011/04/dont-know-nuffink.html
http://bristol.indymedia.org/article/704202]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;I think that the failure of the inquiries to observe even the remotest vestige of due process has gotten under my skin more than I’d like.&#8217;</p>
<p>As a citizen of the UK it scares the hell out of me, how an investigation can be so obviously a white wash and not a single member of the political elite not say a word is worrying.</p>
<p>Then again free speech against the government in the UK is now becoming an idea of past generations enforced by a bunch of hooligans:- </p>
<p><a href="http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2011/04/dont-know-nuffink.html" rel="nofollow">http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2011/04/dont-know-nuffink.html</a><br />
<a href="http://bristol.indymedia.org/article/704202" rel="nofollow">http://bristol.indymedia.org/article/704202</a></p>
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		<title>By: chris1958</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/04/23/comments-on-mother-jones/#comment-264646</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[chris1958]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2011 07:20:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=13512#comment-264646</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I do think Steve&#039;s expectations of the enquiries were unrealistic - hence his inordinate disappointment with their outcome. I would recommend a thorough viewing of those British Classics of the late eighties - &quot;Yes Minister&quot; and &quot;Yes Prime Minister&quot; which providing bitingly witty satire of the lengths to which governments and the civil service will go to conceal truth. For example, one should never hold an enquiry or Royal Commission into any area if the answer is not preordained.

For my part, I find the &quot;exoneration&quot; by the British enquiries thoroughly predictable. The AGW &quot;Team&quot; triumphantly cites these on its blogs - especially those which eschew any notion of criminal or malign intent. However, the findings are politely scathing when it comes to commenting on the sloppiness of the scientists and their willingness to comply with the spirit of FOI. No scientist wanting to advance his or her career would want those comments on their CV when applying for a job. However, the scientists in question all had the good luck to be in tenured positions and hence the comments, while actually quite damning (as in &quot;damning with faint praise&quot; or &quot;masterly understatement&quot;), made no difference in the long run to their careers.

Part of the problem, of course, is that &quot;Team-like&quot; behaviour is rife through much of science though the issues involved just aren&#039;t all that newsworthy. Of course, there are very many scientists and scientific faculties which are very honourable exceptions. I suspect however that the enquires simply couldn&#039;t afford to make the &quot;Team&quot; accountable without setting precedents which would have ramifications across the scientific spectrum (more the pity but that&#039;s precisely the way politics works). And science, like every other field, cannot escape politicisation whether within at the level of the &quot;teacup&quot; of the local faculty and the preferences of its Dean or on the grand scale of &quot;The Future of Our Planet.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do think Steve&#8217;s expectations of the enquiries were unrealistic &#8211; hence his inordinate disappointment with their outcome. I would recommend a thorough viewing of those British Classics of the late eighties &#8211; &#8220;Yes Minister&#8221; and &#8220;Yes Prime Minister&#8221; which providing bitingly witty satire of the lengths to which governments and the civil service will go to conceal truth. For example, one should never hold an enquiry or Royal Commission into any area if the answer is not preordained.</p>
<p>For my part, I find the &#8220;exoneration&#8221; by the British enquiries thoroughly predictable. The AGW &#8220;Team&#8221; triumphantly cites these on its blogs &#8211; especially those which eschew any notion of criminal or malign intent. However, the findings are politely scathing when it comes to commenting on the sloppiness of the scientists and their willingness to comply with the spirit of FOI. No scientist wanting to advance his or her career would want those comments on their CV when applying for a job. However, the scientists in question all had the good luck to be in tenured positions and hence the comments, while actually quite damning (as in &#8220;damning with faint praise&#8221; or &#8220;masterly understatement&#8221;), made no difference in the long run to their careers.</p>
<p>Part of the problem, of course, is that &#8220;Team-like&#8221; behaviour is rife through much of science though the issues involved just aren&#8217;t all that newsworthy. Of course, there are very many scientists and scientific faculties which are very honourable exceptions. I suspect however that the enquires simply couldn&#8217;t afford to make the &#8220;Team&#8221; accountable without setting precedents which would have ramifications across the scientific spectrum (more the pity but that&#8217;s precisely the way politics works). And science, like every other field, cannot escape politicisation whether within at the level of the &#8220;teacup&#8221; of the local faculty and the preferences of its Dean or on the grand scale of &#8220;The Future of Our Planet.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Faustino</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/04/23/comments-on-mother-jones/#comment-264624</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Faustino]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2011 06:31:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=13512#comment-264624</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No comment here from Kate Sheppard. Steve, in case she&#039;s missed it, I think you should send her your wonderful piece and Ross&#039;s comment.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No comment here from Kate Sheppard. Steve, in case she&#8217;s missed it, I think you should send her your wonderful piece and Ross&#8217;s comment.</p>
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		<title>By: James Allison</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/04/23/comments-on-mother-jones/#comment-264615</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Allison]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2011 06:18:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=13512#comment-264615</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;(The &quot;trick&quot;—substituting recorded temperature data when proxy data become unreliable—isn&#039;t intended to deceive; it&#039;s an acceptable practice in paleoclimatology, since most proxy data sets end around the 1980s, and recorded temperatures are more reliable, anyway.)&quot;

==========================================
Why attempt to hide the decline if the above is true.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;(The &#8220;trick&#8221;—substituting recorded temperature data when proxy data become unreliable—isn&#8217;t intended to deceive; it&#8217;s an acceptable practice in paleoclimatology, since most proxy data sets end around the 1980s, and recorded temperatures are more reliable, anyway.)&#8221;</p>
<p>==========================================<br />
Why attempt to hide the decline if the above is true.</p>
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