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	<title>Comments on: Climategate Documents Confirm Wegman&#8217;s Hypothesis</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2011/05/23/climategate-documents-confirm-wegmans-hypothesis/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/05/23/climategate-documents-confirm-wegmans-hypothesis/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 22 May 2013 03:13:53 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: The Climate Change Debate Thread - Page 1353</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/05/23/climategate-documents-confirm-wegmans-hypothesis/#comment-347301</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Climate Change Debate Thread - Page 1353]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2012 09:00:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=13628#comment-347301</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] NGOs and activists, the IPCC is being uncovered piece by piece. Hidden declines, deleting emails, manufactured &quot;peer review&quot;, conspiring to have scienitists sacked, (and that is only from the supposed [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] NGOs and activists, the IPCC is being uncovered piece by piece. Hidden declines, deleting emails, manufactured &quot;peer review&quot;, conspiring to have scienitists sacked, (and that is only from the supposed [...]</p>
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		<title>By: kim2ooo</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/05/23/climategate-documents-confirm-wegmans-hypothesis/#comment-338173</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kim2ooo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2012 11:47:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=13628#comment-338173</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Reblogged this on &lt;a href=&quot;http://climaterealistponderings.wordpress.com/2012/06/15/770/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Climate Ponderings&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reblogged this on <a href="http://climaterealistponderings.wordpress.com/2012/06/15/770/" rel="nofollow">Climate Ponderings</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: L Nettles</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/05/23/climategate-documents-confirm-wegmans-hypothesis/#comment-315191</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[L Nettles]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2011 19:39:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=13628#comment-315191</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And with the new Climategate II email there is no doubt.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And with the new Climategate II email there is no doubt.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Adams</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/05/23/climategate-documents-confirm-wegmans-hypothesis/#comment-280427</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sam Adams]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 May 2011 17:03:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=13628#comment-280427</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why are these comments way out of order?  (May 27th &amp; May 28th)

Referring to Gunnar comment, dated May 27, 2011 at 9:17 AM]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why are these comments way out of order?  (May 27th &amp; May 28th)</p>
<p>Referring to Gunnar comment, dated May 27, 2011 at 9:17 AM</p>
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		<title>By: willard</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/05/23/climategate-documents-confirm-wegmans-hypothesis/#comment-280298</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[willard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 May 2011 10:47:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=13628#comment-280298</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&gt; Here is the top result [http://www.usatoday.com/weather/climate/globalwarming/2011-05-15-climate-study-plagiarism-Wegman_n.htm] if you just put the whole phrase into Google. It’s a pretty terrible article; if you didn’t already know what was going on it’d be hard to figure out by reading it.

I&#039;d rather click on a link to an article than having to Google it, more so when this article serves as a &quot;backstory&quot; to a blog post.  Not including a link to a resource that is being critiqued is quite intriguing, condering the many resources being handwaved: Bouville, Clarke, Loui, etc.  Perhaps this resource is the-One-to-which-we-should-not-link?

Readers that will consult that link above will see that the quote is not in the article itself, but in the standfirst.  Incidentally, the conflation has not appeared in the main body of the article.  Here is what Vergano says:

&gt; The study, which appeared in 2008 in the journal Computational Statistics and Data Analysis, was headed by statistician Edward Wegman of George Mason University in Fairfax, Va. Its analysis was an outgrowth of a controversial congressional report that Wegman headed in 2006. The &quot;Wegman Report&quot; suggested climate scientists colluded in their studies and questioned whether global warming was real. The report has since become a touchstone among climate change naysayers.

Considering that the article contradicts it (&quot;being and outgrowth&quot; not preserving identity), one must presume that somebody else than Vergano wrote it.  That might explain why the false &quot;claims&quot; are said to be &quot;by USA Today&quot; and not &quot;by Vergano&quot;.

The &quot;claims&quot; are distinct only if we decompose the proposition itself, analysis which was the subjected to an update in this blog post. The extent of the update might deserve due diligence. In any case, if we&#039;re to accept Glen Raphael&#039;s analysis, it comes from only one mistake: conflating Said &amp; al 2009 with the Wegman Report.  

This should be enough to show the that my questions were justified and that the quote deserved due diligence stands. 

Anyone who follows bender&#039;s advice might appreciate the rhetorical effect of the lack of the complete quote, the absence of a link to the resource, the exactness of the term &quot;USA Today&quot; and the plural of &quot;claims&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; Here is the top result [http://www.usatoday.com/weather/climate/globalwarming/2011-05-15-climate-study-plagiarism-Wegman_n.htm] if you just put the whole phrase into Google. It’s a pretty terrible article; if you didn’t already know what was going on it’d be hard to figure out by reading it.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d rather click on a link to an article than having to Google it, more so when this article serves as a &#8220;backstory&#8221; to a blog post.  Not including a link to a resource that is being critiqued is quite intriguing, condering the many resources being handwaved: Bouville, Clarke, Loui, etc.  Perhaps this resource is the-One-to-which-we-should-not-link?</p>
<p>Readers that will consult that link above will see that the quote is not in the article itself, but in the standfirst.  Incidentally, the conflation has not appeared in the main body of the article.  Here is what Vergano says:</p>
<p>&gt; The study, which appeared in 2008 in the journal Computational Statistics and Data Analysis, was headed by statistician Edward Wegman of George Mason University in Fairfax, Va. Its analysis was an outgrowth of a controversial congressional report that Wegman headed in 2006. The &#8220;Wegman Report&#8221; suggested climate scientists colluded in their studies and questioned whether global warming was real. The report has since become a touchstone among climate change naysayers.</p>
<p>Considering that the article contradicts it (&#8220;being and outgrowth&#8221; not preserving identity), one must presume that somebody else than Vergano wrote it.  That might explain why the false &#8220;claims&#8221; are said to be &#8220;by USA Today&#8221; and not &#8220;by Vergano&#8221;.</p>
<p>The &#8220;claims&#8221; are distinct only if we decompose the proposition itself, analysis which was the subjected to an update in this blog post. The extent of the update might deserve due diligence. In any case, if we&#8217;re to accept Glen Raphael&#8217;s analysis, it comes from only one mistake: conflating Said &amp; al 2009 with the Wegman Report.  </p>
<p>This should be enough to show the that my questions were justified and that the quote deserved due diligence stands. </p>
<p>Anyone who follows bender&#8217;s advice might appreciate the rhetorical effect of the lack of the complete quote, the absence of a link to the resource, the exactness of the term &#8220;USA Today&#8221; and the plural of &#8220;claims&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: barry</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/05/23/climategate-documents-confirm-wegmans-hypothesis/#comment-279705</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[barry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 May 2011 04:10:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=13628#comment-279705</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;According to the NSF criterion provided by Eli Rabett, the Jones’ reviews discussed in the post were not “independent”.&quot;

Which of the criteria satisfies this conclusion?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;According to the NSF criterion provided by Eli Rabett, the Jones’ reviews discussed in the post were not “independent”.&#8221;</p>
<p>Which of the criteria satisfies this conclusion?</p>
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		<title>By: Gunnar</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/05/23/climategate-documents-confirm-wegmans-hypothesis/#comment-278926</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gunnar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 May 2011 14:17:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=13628#comment-278926</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m piping in after all this time, because the scientific method has long been a theme of my past postings.

This discussion is getting off track. The definition of the word &quot;Independent&quot; is irrelevant.  Let&#039;s review the facts at hand:

1) Scientific truth is not determined by peer review.
2) Peer review is merely a QA process used by scientific magazines.
3) AGW advocates have been deceptive, directly implying that truth is determined by passing peer review.
4) Wegman offered the hypothesis that AGW advocates operate as a clique, self reviewing.
5) Steve M has pointed out that ClimateGate has provided empirical confirmation of Wegmans hypothesis.

Conclusion: AGW advocates have conspired to positively review their own papers and obstruct &#039;skeptic&#039; papers.  Note that #5 proves #1.  If Reviewer Independence matters, then #1.

&gt;&gt; But perhaps the most telling is there continual unjustified reliance on using ‘peer-review’ to imply complete scientific truth.

If the goal is trying to avoid the scientific method, then it&#039;s quite justified to push an alternate means to judge scientific truth, which is under the control of fellow AGW advocates.

&gt;&gt; MikeN:  Having Congress trampling academic freedom and demanding the names of reviewers

There is absolutely no connection between anonymous review of papers for a magazine and &quot;academic freedom&quot;. Everyone is completely free to advance whatever scientific theories they wish, and research whatever they want to. Saying that reviewers have to be anonymous is like saying that software testers need to be anonymous.  It&#039;s an unsupportable assertion.

&gt;&gt; j ferguson:  shouldn’t the meaning of “peer review’ be instead limited to “worth publication in this journal, no obvious internal inconsistencies, theses supported?”

Exactly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m piping in after all this time, because the scientific method has long been a theme of my past postings.</p>
<p>This discussion is getting off track. The definition of the word &#8220;Independent&#8221; is irrelevant.  Let&#8217;s review the facts at hand:</p>
<p>1) Scientific truth is not determined by peer review.<br />
2) Peer review is merely a QA process used by scientific magazines.<br />
3) AGW advocates have been deceptive, directly implying that truth is determined by passing peer review.<br />
4) Wegman offered the hypothesis that AGW advocates operate as a clique, self reviewing.<br />
5) Steve M has pointed out that ClimateGate has provided empirical confirmation of Wegmans hypothesis.</p>
<p>Conclusion: AGW advocates have conspired to positively review their own papers and obstruct &#8216;skeptic&#8217; papers.  Note that #5 proves #1.  If Reviewer Independence matters, then #1.</p>
<p>&gt;&gt; But perhaps the most telling is there continual unjustified reliance on using ‘peer-review’ to imply complete scientific truth.</p>
<p>If the goal is trying to avoid the scientific method, then it&#8217;s quite justified to push an alternate means to judge scientific truth, which is under the control of fellow AGW advocates.</p>
<p>&gt;&gt; MikeN:  Having Congress trampling academic freedom and demanding the names of reviewers</p>
<p>There is absolutely no connection between anonymous review of papers for a magazine and &#8220;academic freedom&#8221;. Everyone is completely free to advance whatever scientific theories they wish, and research whatever they want to. Saying that reviewers have to be anonymous is like saying that software testers need to be anonymous.  It&#8217;s an unsupportable assertion.</p>
<p>&gt;&gt; j ferguson:  shouldn’t the meaning of “peer review’ be instead limited to “worth publication in this journal, no obvious internal inconsistencies, theses supported?”</p>
<p>Exactly.</p>
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		<title>By: Eli Rabett</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/05/23/climategate-documents-confirm-wegmans-hypothesis/#comment-278609</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eli Rabett]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 May 2011 01:49:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=13628#comment-278609</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No, actually eight]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, actually eight</p>
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		<title>By: willard</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/05/23/climategate-documents-confirm-wegmans-hypothesis/#comment-278393</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[willard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 May 2011 18:06:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=13628#comment-278393</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&gt; I suppose the non-independence of proxies is a sort of network thing and concede that point.  

Glad to acknowledge this concession, even though the quote was leading with &quot;that the authors are not independent&quot;.

&gt; However, my original point – that I hadn’t done a post on Wegman’s social network thing and had never mentioned Said et al 2008 – reamins.

We heartily agree: any reader that followed bender&#039;s advice can concede that, before this post, there never was no mention to Said &amp; al (2008), and that Wegman&#039;s social network analysis has never been a main topic.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; I suppose the non-independence of proxies is a sort of network thing and concede that point.  </p>
<p>Glad to acknowledge this concession, even though the quote was leading with &#8220;that the authors are not independent&#8221;.</p>
<p>&gt; However, my original point – that I hadn’t done a post on Wegman’s social network thing and had never mentioned Said et al 2008 – reamins.</p>
<p>We heartily agree: any reader that followed bender&#8217;s advice can concede that, before this post, there never was no mention to Said &amp; al (2008), and that Wegman&#8217;s social network analysis has never been a main topic.</p>
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		<title>By: Gaelan Clark</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/05/23/climategate-documents-confirm-wegmans-hypothesis/#comment-278388</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gaelan Clark]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 May 2011 17:51:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=13628#comment-278388</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nick, Since you are obviously opposed to the definitions cited above--you provide your definition of &quot;clique&quot; with references for such and we can then see where you are coming from. 
As it stands though, you have been thoroughly repudiated in your prior comment of the term &quot;clique&quot; as used by Wegman being not used correctly. 
And if it scares you to give up a name of any journal you have published within, then give us the general field. I would be willing to bet that I will find a half a dozen examples of exclusionary language in the peer review sections on the first
 two Google pages.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick, Since you are obviously opposed to the definitions cited above&#8211;you provide your definition of &#8220;clique&#8221; with references for such and we can then see where you are coming from.<br />
As it stands though, you have been thoroughly repudiated in your prior comment of the term &#8220;clique&#8221; as used by Wegman being not used correctly.<br />
And if it scares you to give up a name of any journal you have published within, then give us the general field. I would be willing to bet that I will find a half a dozen examples of exclusionary language in the peer review sections on the first<br />
 two Google pages.</p>
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